2004/11/23/#ubuntu-doc.txt

=== ggi [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[01:23] <sivang> hi ggi
[01:30] <ggi> Oh, hello.
[01:33] <ggi> Not much going on just now, it seems.
[01:34] <sivang> well, 
[01:35] <sivang> it's kind late for us .. although hornbeck should be here somwhere :)
[01:35] <sivang> as he is in the states, and has opposite timezone compared to everyone else.
[01:35] <sivang> are you interested in helping out the doc project?
[01:35] <sivang> :)
=== sivang smiles evilly :)
[01:36] <ggi> Yes, at least I will be in a couple of weeks' time. I'm kind of busy with essay writing just now, so I'm just... observing.
[01:41] <sivang> I see. nice. Are you already familiar with DocBook ?
[01:42] <ggi> No, I don't think so. I'll go look it up.
[01:43] <sivang> I have some a task that would only require somebody going over a manual in it's xml docbook source form, do what it says and fix it to fit Ubuntu :)
[01:43] <sivang> more specifically, I am referring to the gnome user manual which needs updated for Ubuntu.
[01:43] <sivang> as quite some desktop elements are modified 
[01:45] <ggi> Well, I suppose I can have a look. Where will I get it from?
[01:46] <sivang> actually, this is not yet hosted on some central server, but I have a version I already started modifying locally.. We are working on setting up a server to do svn/arch at the moment, and when we have it - we'd put it there 
[01:48] <ggi> Do you have a list of things that need to be fixed?
[01:49] <sivang> well, I can send you the file, so you could pick up where I started..
[01:49] <sivang> when you get tired of this,
[01:49] <sivang> I will take over again..
[01:50] <sivang> it could use a rework, so you would just need to read it section by section,
[01:50] <sivang> try and follow the instructions,
[01:50] <sivang> and fix where ever you think it deservs on. We could be having diffs , so we'll see what we've done.
[01:50] <sivang> other then that,
[01:51] <sivang> take a look at the new doc team page : lemme know if it's anyway useful in helping you find out what you want,
[01:52] <sivang> it's in : http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/documentation
[01:53] <sivang> or was it that brough you here the first place?
[01:53] <ggi> Well, I've looked at it before.
[01:54] <sivang> ok, then we have a wiki todo list,
=== skyrider [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[01:55] <sivang> depends what you best prefer to do, do you have any preferences with regard to documentation work? would you like me to send you the user manual so you could take a glance?
[01:56] <sivang> hi skyrider! (ggi, no I'm not a welcome bot :)
[01:56] <skyrider> hi ;)
[01:56] <sivang> I would like to welcome you to the wonderful doc team channel
[01:56] <sivang> for Ubuntu, the human linux distro :)
[01:57] <ggi> Yeah, you could do that. It's getting late (or early) where I am, so I probably won't look at it until morning. I'm finding it hard to focus just now.
[01:57] <skyrider> sivang: I know what Ubuntu is
[01:57] <ggi> What size is the file?
[01:57] <sivang> nothing biggy.. It's a snapshot of the CVS head of the 2.6 manual..
[01:58] <sivang> only the C dir is there, for the C locale , meaning english in the meanwhile. translations should come afterwards.
[01:58] <sivang> skyrider : didn't mean in in an offense, sorry :)
[01:58] <ggi> Ok. Well, you can send it to [email protected].
[01:59] <skyrider> sivang: ;)
[01:59] <sivang> ok, thanks. have a look, you can mail me back [email protected] about it,
[01:59] <sivang> also make sure you subscribe to the mailing list
[02:00] <sivang> we have a very nice set of jokes going htere :)
[02:00] <sivang> there's a link from the docteam main page I before pasted.
[02:02] <ggi> Subscribed. :)
[02:03] <sivang> Where are you from ggi ?
[02:03] <ggi> Bonny Scotland, as they say.
[02:04] <skyrider> Where are you from sivang? 
[02:04] <sivang> skyrider : Israel, and you?
[02:04] <skyrider> I'm from Ukraine
[02:04] <skyrider> But my native language is Russian
[02:04] <sivang> ah! It's probably dead cold by now ...:-/
[02:04] <skyrider> and of cource I know Ukrainian :)
[02:04] <sivang> Nice!
[02:05] <skyrider> Not so much
=== Hoodster [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[02:05] <sivang> In Israel, I have many Russian immigrants freinds :)
[02:05] <ggi> It's pretty cold in Scotland too. It might snow tomorrow, or so I'm told.
[02:05] <skyrider> It is about +5 C right now
[02:05] <sivang> ah, well being Israeli, that is enough cold for me :)
[02:06] <sivang> Hey Hoodster !
[02:06] <Hoodster> Hi All? Is there a Scotsman in this group? I lived in Scotland for a while and loved it!
[02:06] <Hoodster> Hi sivang!
[02:06] <sivang> yes there is,
[02:06] <sivang> ggi is :)
[02:06] <skyrider> sivang: we all have to much Russian immigrant friends there :)
[02:06] <sivang> haha
[02:07] <sivang> I really like to hear Russian, Germen.. would love to learn those sometime
[02:07] <sivang> :)
[02:07] <sivang> so , are all new people that just joined just accidently reach here? or did you visit some web page? :)
[02:08] <Hoodster> I found out about this IRC channel from the Ubuntu forums just a minute or two ago.
[02:08] <skyrider> I've already knew about this chanell for few weeks.
[02:09] <skyrider> form mail lists
[02:09] <skyrider> i'm subscribed to ubuntu-doc too
[02:09] <sivang> oh and btw, we have some pending job of working out the gnome-user-manual for anybody interested....:)
[02:09] <sivang> I just nagged at ggi fro that :)
[02:10] <Hoodster> Please forgive me for asking noobie questions. Doesn't gnome have a user manual?
[02:10] <sivang> skyrider : would love photos of your place if you could send, especially in the snow ;)
[02:10] <ggi> Mailing lists as well. Why, I remember when this team's inception on the -devel list.
[02:10] <sivang> Hoodster : noobie questions are welcomed here! Sheeesh, that's a secret,
[02:10] <Hoodster> I came to this channel to see what activity there is in the doc and I have an interest in contributing to the Ubuntu cause.
[02:10] <sivang> this channel follows the tradition of #gnome-love..
[02:10] <sivang> :)
[02:11] <Hoodster> I mean "documentation department"
[02:11] <sivang> yes  no problem.
[02:11] <skyrider> sivang: I don't have winter photos
[02:11] <sivang> skyrider : non would also be great :)
[02:11] <skyrider> sivang: Actually I don't have too much summer photos too :)
[02:11] <sivang> ok, then *any* photo would do :) Russia is beautiful I know
[02:12] <ggi> sivang: Did you send that file?
[02:12] <sivang> ok, for the sake of my new 3 nice people here, here goes (I should make it a wiki page)
[02:12] <skyrider> sivang: I'm in Ukraine! :) But it's neighbourgh of Russia.
[02:13] <ggi> A wiki page about Russia?
[02:13] <sivang> nono ggi, about the gnome manual task :)
[02:13] <sivang> sec.
[02:13] <ggi> I see.
[02:13] <skyrider> sivang: I have to search a little for photos  actually.
[02:13] <sivang> no prob, take you time! no hurry :)
[02:13] <skyrider> sivang: Give me your e-mail and I'll mail you some links.
[02:14] <skyrider> Probably tomorrow because it's 3:14am now
[02:16] <sivang> skyrider : no prob, [email protected]
[02:16] <sivang> ggi : it's 3M ...oops
[02:16] <sivang> it that ok?
[02:16] <ggi> Yeah, it should be fine.
[02:17] <Hoodster> Are you all the main documentation people for Ubuntu?
[02:17] <ggi> Maybe I should start using my Gmail account, now that they've apparently added POP and SMTP support.
[02:18] <skyrider> ggi: really?
[02:18] <skyrider> Great news from gmail!
[02:18] <sivang> tha have????
[02:18] <sivang> !
=== sivang is stunned
[02:19] <ggi> I think so. It may not be active on all accounts yet. I saw it on Slashdot yesterday, I think. I'll go look for a link.
[02:21] <sivang> trying to send you...
[02:21] <sivang> but my evo is buggy, using ubuntu unstable :)
[02:21] <ggi> Well, I can't find the /. link, but here's the story on ZDNet: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/internet/0,39020369,39173340,00.htm
[02:23] <ggi> I *would* be using Hoary, but I can't seem to get a working installation from the recently released Array CD. GRUB keeps just hanging. I attribute it to laptop flakiness though.
[02:27] <ggi> sivang: Is it not working? I haven't received anything anyway.
[02:27] <sivang> sending...
[02:27] <sivang> i have a very bad upstream..
[02:27] <sivang> :(
[02:27] <ggi> Ah.
[02:28] <sivang> 96kbits...
[02:28] <sivang> bad bad bad israeli ISP!!!!
[02:28] <sivang> :)
[02:29] <ggi> Hey, it could be worse.
[02:30] <skyrider> sivang: You don't know anything about Ukrainian ISP
[02:30] <sivang> how bad is it?
[02:30] <skyrider> dial-up
[02:30] <skyrider> 33600
[02:30] <skyrider> bad phone lines
[02:30] <sivang> oh...
[02:30] <sivang> :(
[02:30] <sivang> man, I thought those went of the world
[02:30] <skyrider> And (surprise) high costs
[02:30] <sivang> skyrider : are you using such connection now?
[02:31] <skyrider> sivang: yeah :(((
[02:31] <sivang> ggi : you also on dial up? I have some irish freind who only 2 weeks ago got broadband..:-/
[02:32] <ggi> No, I'm on regular British 512/128 ADSL.
[02:33] <skyrider> I can't dream about nothing except 115k DSL here. :(
[02:35] <sivang> ggi : nice
[02:35] <sivang> skyrider, nevermind.. It should hold you from helping the doc project , if you like.
[02:36] <sivang> shout your name on the -doc list, I think there's translation work to get done..
[02:36] <sivang> although the translation framework is at it's dawn,
[02:36] <sivang> that is why I cannot tell exactly
[02:37] <skyrider> ok
[02:37] <skyrider> right now I'm working on something like Ubuntu post-install guide for russian-peaking users
[02:38] <Hoodster> Is the doc mail list the best way to get involved in contributing?
[02:40] <ggi> Well, I'm going to give up trying to fix this GRUB thing for now. Night all!
[02:40] <sivang> Hoodster : well, you could always hang out here and see what's going, but the mailing list should be used for offering new ideas, and also consulted before making drastic changes.
[02:40] <sivang> nigh ggi!
[02:40] <ggi> sivang: I'll expect your e-mail to have uploaded by morning :P
[02:41] <sivang> ggi : btw, I would stay with warty at the mean whiel ... hoary is not so stable :)
[02:41] <sivang> ggi : I sure do hope so
[02:41] <sivang> :)
[02:41] <sivang> it still sending..
=== ggi [[email protected]]  has left #ubuntu-doc [""Goodnight!""] 
[02:42] <sivang> Hoodster : you should also take a look at the documetnation project / team realted wiki pages, the ubuntu main documentation section etc.
[02:42] <sivang> this should be a good starting point.
[02:42] <sivang> we also have a wiki todo list,
[02:42] <sivang> and there that task that needs done for the next release,
[02:42] <sivang> modifying the gnome-user-maunal to fit ubuntu's quirks
[02:43] <sivang> however, we need to first set up the svn/arch server, so it could be worked collaboritly ..
[02:43] <Hoodster> sivang: I reviewed the todo list and there was only a limited I thought I could take on at this moment (due to inexperience with creating wiki's) and interaction in a community like Ubuntu. So, I need to start with something small or in conjunction with someone else, perhaps.
[02:44] <Hoodster> To get my feet wet.
[02:45] <sivang> no problem, there is planty of stuff to do, however this task ir rather big, and is merely reading a document explaining how to do stuff in the gnome desktop, the source looks like html (nothing special really)
[02:45] <sivang> and one should just follow the instructions, and say / modify where it needs it to suit Ubuntu desktop.
[02:45] <sivang> :)
[02:45] <sivang> but not a problem,
[02:46] <sivang> tell me what you would like on contribing, or even better mail the list about it
[02:46] <sivang> :)
[02:47] <Hoodster> I know HTML, quite well. If that will help.
[02:47] <Hoodster> I am confortable with editing raw HTML code, rather than a GUI editor.
[02:47] <sivang> it will help you greatly..
[02:48] <sivang> docbook is xml
[02:48] <sivang> :)
[02:48] <Hoodster> hehe
[02:48] <Hoodster> Well, if xml is like html, then I could pick it up quick.
[02:51] <sivang> yes, you could. you could also read about this,
[02:51] <Hoodster> sivang: One idea I had for contributing at the wiki site was a description of how to create mount points for those Ubuntu users that dual boot with MSWindows. I saw a wiki page on how to mount a MSWindows share over a network, but not on the same machine. This was something I had to do when I first installed Ubuntu. However, it might be covered someplace and I missed it or it is too noobieish.
[02:51] <sivang> Hoodster : find something called Room101 on the wiki, add it there ok ? :)
[02:53] <Hoodster> sivang: I read something about Room101 but I hadn't actually been there.
[02:53] <Hoodster> sivang: Thank you for the suggestion.
[02:54] <sivang> no problem, you see this si something that should get automated in the future versions of Ubuntu , and room101 is for those nasty hacks that need to disappear
[02:56] <skyrider> sivang: Just for your information: I've created https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RussianDocumentation wiki page
[02:56] <Hoodster> sivang: Thank you for the explanation. I just found the Room101 page. Now I have to figure out how to add content to it (hehe)
[02:56] <skyrider> and written https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/UbuntuRussianLocalizationHOWTO
[02:56] <sivang> skyrider : :)
[02:56] <skyrider> ;)
[02:56] <skyrider> it's a work in progress...
[02:57] <sivang> skyrider : ah! this is SUPERB!
[02:57] <sivang> just saw the howto, amazing 
[02:57] <skyrider> thanks!
[02:57] <sivang> looks very promising, thank you ! (although I cannot read all of this)
[02:59] <skyrider> I can't work on it today anymore (4:00 am here). I'll continue writing tomorrow.
=== George^Deka [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[03:00] <sivang> skyrider : have you looked at https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/local/ ?
[03:00] <sivang> skyrider : was it you who added the ru section there?
[03:00] <skyrider> sivang: yes
[03:00] <skyrider> :)
[03:00] <George^Deka> hi all
[03:01] <skyrider> I'm admin of russian mailing list and #ubuntu-ru
[03:01] <sivang> ah!
[03:01] <sivang> finally we meet, why didn
[03:01] <sivang> you say in the first place?
[03:01] <sivang> :)
[03:01] <sivang> Hey George^Deka! I'm nearly fainting..
[03:01] <sivang> :)
[03:02] <skyrider> Why I should start conversation with such words? ;)
[03:02] <sivang> didn't sleep at all..
[03:02] <George^Deka> hey sivang why you nearly fainting
[03:02] <sivang> remember last time you been here?
[03:02] <sivang> didn
[03:02] <sivang> get no sleep since :)
[03:02] <sivang> skyrider : :)
[03:02] <sivang> i'm about 24 hours awake
[03:02] <sivang> almost
[03:02] <George^Deka> sivang: what time is it there
[03:03] <sivang> some nice new people dropped by, so I couldn't leave them to an sleepy channel :)
[03:03] <sivang> and I had some mainpage works etc..
[03:03] <George^Deka> sivang: do a world of good for the newbies
[03:03] <sivang> I do! I just can't resist them!
[03:03] <sivang> :)
[03:03] <George^Deka> sivang: i will finally install ubuntu onto my main machine 2nite or 2morrow
[03:04] <sivang> no problem, make sure you stick to warty the meanwhile..it's getting icky ont he desktop for hoary
[03:04] <sivang> skyrider : make sure you add anything you finished to the main section, thanks
[03:05] <Hoodster> Quick question: I am in Room101 and logged in. To add an entry at the bottom of the page, I need to fill in the two white boxes (subject and content) and click the 'add a comment' link. correct?
[03:05] <sivang> George^Deka , say hello to Hoodster
[03:05] <sivang> Hoodster : lemme get there also
[03:05] <George^Deka> sivang: i only got dialup anyway
[03:05] <Hoodster> Hey George^Deka! You from the Ukraine too?
[03:05] <George^Deka> sivang: with x.o getting in and everything
[03:06] <sivang> yes..
[03:06] <sivang> I can see...
[03:06] <George^Deka> hi Hoodster - no im for australia, how are you
[03:06] <Hoodster> sivang: What about that last white box at the very bottom? Do I need to anything with that?
[03:06] <George^Deka> room101 ?
[03:06] <sivang> Hoodster : sec.
[03:07] <sivang> Hoodster : just click on the "edit" tab, to edit the doc source.
[03:07] <Hoodster> George^Deka: I am okay. Getting my feet wet with Ubuntu documentation. How many people are part of the Ubuntu documentation team? Is it many contributing equally or are there a main 10 or 20 people doing most of the work?
[03:09] <George^Deka> Hoodster: i am only new too, getting my feet wet (but sivang correct me if i am wrong i have been fairly active and quite vocal) in my first week. There is about 10 people really at a guess.
[03:09] <George^Deka> Hoodster: how familiar are you with firefox ?
[03:09] <Hoodster> sivang: The edit page looks like the main page, which I don't want to edit really. But rather, I want to add a new page that links at the bottom of the Room101 page. Am I missing something?
[03:10] <Hoodster> I use firefox at home and at work.
[03:10] <sivang> George^Deka : I just realized I know nothing of the international community :) skyrider came here, and I jumped on him with my stipid newbie welcoming commette !
[03:10] <George^Deka> Hoodster: wheres room 101 page never heard of it
[03:10] <sivang> Hoodster: sec, sorry be with you in a sec.
[03:10] <George^Deka> sivang: it happens
[03:10] <skyrider> sivang: :)
[03:11] <George^Deka> sivang: get hoodster on ReST and he can add to my firefox howto
[03:11] <George^Deka> its got ages to go still
[03:11] <George^Deka> good place to learn a  reall active document
[03:11] <Hoodster> George^Deka: see https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Room101
[03:12] <George^Deka> ohh i thought room101 must of meant teaching but its bug workarounds hey
[03:13] <sivang> George^Deka : yes, it's the place for the nasty hacks which need get automated in future version of Ubuntu
[03:13] <George^Deka> sivang: cool now i get it
[03:13] <skyrider> I have small question: can I mark some text bold _and_ italic same time using ReST?
[03:14] <Hoodster> George^Deka: Tell me more about your Firefox HowTo...
[03:14] <George^Deka> Hoodster: to add a subpage to room101, use the bottom textbox marked new parent, name, replacement, subtopic: then click create
[03:15] <George^Deka> Hoodster: its just very basic now, if you go into edit you will see comments for things i want to add
[03:15] <George^Deka> Hoodster: if you know how to upgrade from 0.9.3 to 1.0 your more than welcome to add that
[03:15] <George^Deka> as long as it is instructions from binaries
[03:15] <sivang> Hoodster : to create a new page, just use the www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/MyPage url
[03:16] <sivang> Hoodster : and create the new page, then you would need to add a link to it by editing the room101 page.
[03:16] <Hoodster> sivang: Okay, I am getting it.. I will check it out. Never done a wiki before....
[03:16] <sivang> all in all, I am _very_ poor at ReST (I prefer MOinMOin much better) and plovs should be the authority on this.
[03:17] <sivang> Alexander Poslavsky, if I am not mistaken :)
[03:17] <George^Deka> Hoodster: follow my instructions they are easier
[03:17] <sivang> come to think of it, I do not know ReST at all
[03:17] <sivang> George^Deka : I will leave you too to work out now,
[03:17] <sivang> :)
[03:18] <sivang> Hoodster : George^Deka's might be easier, I have a tendency to do things in awkward ways :)
[03:18] <sivang> So kids, nanny is going to sleep ..:)))
[03:18] <skyrider> sivang: bad. Thanks anyway
[03:18] <Hoodster> sivang: See yea. Get some zzzzz...
[03:18] <sivang> skyrider : why bad?
[03:18] <skyrider> sivang: Good night!
[03:18] <skyrider> sivang: you don't know ReST
[03:19] <sivang> no I dont :)
[03:19] <skyrider> it's bad ;)
[03:19] <sivang> yes it is, however I am going to do stuff in DocBook, so it's not that bad after all
[03:19] <sivang> :)
[03:19] <sivang> I would even feel much better in plain HTML
[03:19] <sivang> but that rest...ah!
[03:19] <sivang> :)
[03:19] <skyrider> DocBook is great
[03:19] <sivang> yes, I rally love XML
[03:20] <skyrider> But I don't have time to earn it :(
[03:20] <skyrider> learn it 
[03:20] <sivang> George^Deka : Love them newbies for me will ya? :)
[03:20] <sivang> when I'm away
[03:20] <Hoodster> George^Deka: I didn't notice the bubble help that pops up when the mouse cursor is over those links (reparent, rename, delete! and create). Thank you for the tip!
[03:21] <sivang> skyrider : basically, it's not that ahrd to get the hang of it, and then you would be okay with only few tags. take a look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocBook
[03:21] <skyrider> I've already read that and much more actually
[03:21] <skyrider> But I don't feel comfortable with it
[03:22] <sivang> skyrider : ah ok...no prob
[03:22] <sivang> anyway, people this is really good night now!
[03:22] <sivang> :)
[03:22] <Hoodster> George^Deka: Do I need still need to fill in the two other white boxes (subject and content) or will a new page appear after I click on the 'create' link that I edit?
[03:23] <George^Deka> no leave them empty
[03:23] <George^Deka> cya sivang - ill take over for you
[03:23] <Hoodster> George^Deka: Thanks!
[03:23] <George^Deka> new wiki page will appear
[03:24] <sivang_ZZzzZzzZz> hmm, I don't snore that much
[03:24] <skyrider> Good bye everybody
[03:24] <sivang_sleep> night skyrider
[03:24] <George^Deka> Hoodster: i started with ReST because of plovs, but your choice really ReST is more powerful
[03:25] <George^Deka> cya skyrider 
[03:25] <Hoodster> George^Deka: Could you please explain what ReST is?
[03:25] <Hoodster> hehe
[03:26] <George^Deka> Hoodster: there are many different langauges you can write the wiki, the 2 preffered ones are ReST and MoinMoin
[03:26] <Hoodster> George^Deka: I am intrigued to know more about ReST
[03:26] <George^Deka> Hoodster: wait 1 second
[03:26] <Hoodster> George^Deka: Do I need to read up on ReST before attempting to create a wiki page?
[03:27] <George^Deka> I just copied the template and started that way
[03:27] <George^Deka> but a little reading does not hurt
[03:27] <George^Deka> ill point you in the right direction
=== sivang_sleep is for moinmoin
[03:29] <Hoodster> George^Deka: I am starting to get it. ReST stands for RestructuredText.
[03:30] <George^Deka> yes
[03:31] <George^Deka> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto
[03:31] <George^Deka> there is a link there to a specific page on ReST for more info and tutorials
[03:32] <Hoodster> George^Deka: Thank you for the links.
[03:33] <George^Deka> took me forever to find it
[03:33] <George^Deka> bloody hidden
[03:33] <George^Deka> plovs_:  i think the documentation team area needs a cleanup etc..
[03:34] <Hoodster> George^Deka: Documentation Team?
[03:35] <sivang_sleep> George^Deka : yes it does, however we do have a new page by now on the main site for the team
[03:35] <George^Deka> Hoodster: there is a wiki page called documentationteam
[03:36] <George^Deka> Hoodster: dont worry about it now
[03:36] <George^Deka> sivang_sleep: really, never knew
[03:36] <sivang_sleep> George^Deka : how do I make a link in rest?
[03:37] <George^Deka> 'what i want the link to say <http://linklocation>`
[03:37] <sivang_sleep> this are backticks??!?!
[03:37] <sivang_sleep> I thought they were for shell use only..:)
[03:38] <George^Deka> it was writen by perl or python (forget which one) fanatics
[03:38] <George^Deka> it may even have __ after the end backtick
[03:39] <sivang_sleep> dang! in the first tick is plain? or back also?
[03:39] <Hoodster> George^Deka sivang_sleep: I thank you for the documentation instruction and encouragement. I will try to add that wiki page and will return to this forum because I am highly motivated to contribute to the Ubuntu community. I must go now. Thanks again!
[03:39] <sivang_sleep> I mean, here 'wha.... ?
[03:40] <George^Deka> they are the things on the tilde key next to the 1 key
[03:40] <sivang_sleep> ok thanks
[03:41] <George^Deka> here is a example
[03:41] <George^Deka> `look on Google <http://google.com>`__
[03:41] <George^Deka> you do need those __ afterwards
[03:42] <sivang_sleep> yes, it killed me for the moment, and in this late/early hour..
[03:42] <sivang_sleep> I must say moin moin is bettter..
[03:42] <sivang_sleep> for new people also wanting to contribute
[03:43] <George^Deka> http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/rst/quickref.html
[03:43] <George^Deka> i know its not the easiest to start off with - but its like python
[03:44] <George^Deka> cya Hoodster 
[03:44] <George^Deka> i better go too
[03:45] <George^Deka> cya all
[03:45] <George^Deka> quite possibley be back on 2nite
[03:45] <George^Deka> my time 6 or 10 hours away
[04:10] <hornbeck> back
[04:52] <hornbeck> gone
[06:32] <hornbeck> anyone around?
[06:42] <hornbeck> you guys are always asleep when I am awake
[06:42] <plovs_> morning!
[06:43] <hornbeck> good morning
[06:43] <plovs_> how's it going with the server?
[06:44] <hornbeck> its running
[06:44] <hornbeck> I switched it to debian sarge
[06:44] <hornbeck> would you mind checking my ssh for me?
[06:44] <hornbeck> ssh 69.155.172.150
[06:44] <plovs_> do you have icq/gaim?
[06:44] <hornbeck> yeah 
[06:44] <hornbeck> emudork99 on aol
=== dadehoog [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
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[07:36] <hornbeck> I hate ssh :-)
[07:36] <hornbeck> I am going to bed
[07:36] <hornbeck> goodnight
=== mercurus_ [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[09:28] <ChrisH> Moin...
[09:36] <plovs_work> hi!
[09:54] <ChrisH> Just booking the flight.
[09:55] <ChrisH> :)
=== enrico [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[10:41] <ChrisH> Okay... found a flight and hotel room. Looks like I will book the whole story in an hour. Sorry guys... I'll be with you. :)
[10:43] <plovs_work> ChrisH, very nice
[10:46] <ChrisH> plovs_work: Same days as you btw. :)
[10:52] <plovs_work> nice, how will you fly?
[10:56] <ChrisH> In a plane.
[10:56] <ChrisH> :) Nah... Lufthansa direct flight from Hamburg to BCN.
[10:57] <ChrisH> I managed to keep the costs under 1000 EUR. Expensive though.
[11:16] <enrico> ChrisH: tried Ryan from Hahn to Girona?
[11:16] <enrico> ChrisH: www.skyscanner.net
[11:21] <ChrisH> They only offer Germany -> UK.
[11:22] <ChrisH> That website seems to display trash.
[11:46] <plovs_> ChrisH, http://www.bookryanair.com Reus -> Frankfurt 14,99Euro
[11:48] <plovs_> ChrisH, or over london, 1 euro hamburg - london!
[12:01] <enrico> plovs_: 1 euro plus taxes, visa fees, extra whatevers... it will be like 25 euros
[12:04] <enrico> ChrisH: Well, ryanair has Hahn->Gerona for like 16GBP+18GBP =~ 34GBP =~ 50EUR return
[12:04] <enrico> Then you need a train to Frankfurt, the bus to hahn (frankfurt to hahn was 11euro one way an year ago)
[12:04] <enrico> So it's 50+22+train to frankfurt
[12:05] <enrico> plus, of course, girona<->matar
[12:05] <enrico> But it should all be much less than 1000eur
[12:05] <enrico> The problem is, Ryanair leaves hahn at 6.25 in the morning
[12:05] <enrico> Ah, no, also at 19:35
[12:08] <plovs_> i'm trying to find flights from riga-barcelona, straight connection, nothing under 800$ (a nice one 2021$, return ticket)
[12:09] <plovs_> what online companies have you tried? http://www.vueling.com/ http://www.finnair.com http://www.bookryanair.com
[12:15] <enrico> plovs_: The only low cost from Riga that I see goes to Frankfurt hahn
[12:15] <enrico> plovs_: you can then get another low-cost from hahn, but you'll probably have to spend the night in the airport
[12:16] <plovs_> enrico, yes, that's no fun
[12:16] <enrico> plovs_: riga->hahn is up to 23 GBP one way
[12:16] <plovs_> enrico, i'll try to fly over amsterdam
[12:16] <enrico> www.sleepinginairports.net :)
[12:16] <enrico> All the tips&tricks you might need
[12:17] <ChrisH> plovs_: I need a direct flight. My wife and my son (8 months old) will come with me. It's too much hassle otherwise.
[12:18] <plovs_> ChrisH, yes, with your family it's better not to rough it
[12:19] <enrico> according to www.sleepinginairports.net, sleeping in Hahn is not easy
[12:19] <enrico> Gosh, yes: it you move with family that's really not an option
[12:20] <ChrisH> plovs_: It's the first time we'll be leaving town with the baby anyway. She deperately wanted to come with me. Let's see what she will do there.
[12:20] <ChrisH> plovs_: Cooking? Carrying the mascot? :)
[12:20] <ChrisH> plovs_: She's more the user type.
[12:27] <plovs_> ChrisH, it's still nice to have m with you i suppose i'll be traveling alone and it will be very weird, i haven't been alone for a week for ages
[12:28] <ChrisH> Me neither. I hate traveling alone.
[12:28] <ChrisH> She said she wanted to meet a few new people and practise speaking english.
[12:29] <ChrisH> She'll probably take the baby for a walk at the sea and be half-time at the conf.
[12:29] <ChrisH> plovs_: Do you happen to know how far from the hotel the conference will be? Do we need to travel by train/taxi forth and back?
[12:30] <plovs_> ChrisH, no idea http://www.tecnocampus.com/eng/presentacio.htm is where we'll be at
[12:37] <ChrisH> Hmm. So Mataro is a suburb to Barcelona. And the hotel is in Mataro, too. Hmmm. Can't be that far.
[12:41] <plovs_> ChrisH, http://www26.germanwings.com/
[12:42] <plovs_> ChrisH, not many flights from hamburg though
[12:42] <ChrisH> Hamburg -> Stuttgart? Close. :)
[12:43] <plovs_> ChrisH, maybe you can hitch-hike the rest?
[12:43] <plovs_> ChrisH, no? ok.
[12:44] <plovs_> ChrisH, http://www.skyscanner.net/day/de/cheap-flights.html also nothing (good) from haburg
[12:45] <ChrisH> I think I'll do it through our biz service. (Employees get 5% less to flights.)
[12:47] <ChrisH> When I got it booked I need to care about the most important issue: a wireless card.
[12:49] <plovs_> ChrisH, still looking for one as well
[12:49] <plovs_> ChrisH, if i can't find any i'll bring a small hub and cables
[12:51] <ChrisH> I don't have wifi at home either. But I'm willing to try it.
[01:21] <sivang_sleep> hey ChrisH is comfing after all!!!!
[01:21] <sivang> MOrning all!
[02:09] <ChrisH> sivang: Hi. :)
=== ChrisH has just confirmed the flight
=== WW [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[02:14] <WW> Good morning all.
[02:15] <WW> ChrisH: Just dropped by to say thanks for adding BOFs to the wiki :)
[02:15] <WW> Your nice writeup saved me a session with google.
[02:15] <ChrisH> WW: :)
[02:15] <ChrisH> WW: I was searching for the meaning for long enough myself.
[02:20] <hornbeck> good morning
[02:26] <sivang> hey hornbeck, whassup?
[02:26] <sivang> can we have a current updates on doc affairs? anybody willing?
[02:27] <sivang> *update
=== sivang feels bit lagged
[02:27] <hornbeck> hey sivang
[02:27] <hornbeck> I am working on the book
[02:27] <hornbeck> and the server
[02:27] <sivang> nice ok, and the server?
[02:27] <hornbeck> I am going to throw the server out the windowo
[02:27] <hornbeck> :-)
[02:27] <sivang> I have had some 2 more newbies here last night (see the logs),
[02:28] <hornbeck> ok
[02:28] <sivang> we really need to get the gnomedocs on a server,
[02:28] <hornbeck> I got one the other night
[02:28] <sivang> I have 2 people willing to give hand on it
[02:28] <sivang> who was he?
[02:28] <hornbeck> ChrisH has a server up right now right?
[02:28] <sivang> ChrisH : it's all up and working?
[02:28] <hornbeck> skyrider
[02:28] <sivang> btw, we also need something to make order of the international community..:0
[02:28] <sivang> :)
[02:29] <sivang> YD , the russian admin came here, and I popped on him with my newbie welcome flood ...:)
[02:29] <hornbeck> I thought I was in this room but I was in ubuntu-devel when skyrider came in and I started talking to him about docs
[02:29] <hornbeck> so he got interested
[02:30] <plovs_> hi guys
[02:30] <hornbeck> hey plovs
[02:31] <plovs_> hornbeck, i just saw a server flying by, yours?
[02:31] <hornbeck> might be
[02:31] <hornbeck> debian sarge is sucking my ass
[02:32] <hornbeck> it errors on everything
[02:32] <hornbeck> apache2 can't be installed
[02:32] <hornbeck> ssh decided it did not like to work anymore even inside the network
[02:32] <hornbeck> subversion would not install
[02:32] <hornbeck> just a bunch of poop
[02:33] <plovs_> hornbeck why don't you use woody+backports?
[02:33] <hornbeck> don't know
[02:33] <hornbeck> have not tried :-)
[02:33] <hornbeck> I think that is next
[02:33] <hornbeck> this server will run
[02:34] <hornbeck> and it will run good
[02:34] <hornbeck> even if I have to use gentoo, it will work
[02:34] <plovs_> hornbeck i only run woody, ask chris what he uses
[02:35] <hornbeck> I was talking to some local users yesterday who do server stuff
[02:35] <hornbeck> they all use slackware
[02:35] <plovs_> hornbeck, hmm, i used to but i like debian better
[02:36] <hornbeck> I used to use slackware on the desktop
[02:36] <hornbeck> I cannot believe I went this long using linux and never built a webserver
[02:36] <plovs_> gentoo is nice as well, just takes too much time to install
[02:36] <hornbeck> gentoo is real nice, but it has always broke on me
[02:37] <plovs_> hornbeck, i found updating slack less easy then debian, the packages are newer, though
[02:38] <plovs_> ChrisH, what do you run on your servers?
[02:38] <hornbeck> well I have always used swaret for slack
[02:38] <hornbeck> he either uses woody or sarge
[02:38] <hornbeck> I read last night that ssh was a problem in both sarge and sid
[02:39] <hornbeck> so that might be some of my problem
[02:40] <plovs_> hornbeck, try woody, you have a fast pipe, you can install it in an hour, then add stuff from backports.org and you're done, later you can pin stuff from sarge
[02:41] <plovs_> my woody servers have uptimes of 6/7 months
[02:41] <plovs_> (4 of them)
[02:42] <hornbeck> ok, I will download a install disk real quick
[02:43] <sivang> ChrisH : https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3353
[02:43] <sivang> oops
[02:43] <sivang> ChrisH : http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/
[02:44] <sivang> ChrisH : check latest howtos :)
[02:44] <hornbeck> man the debian installer hates lcd's
[02:44] <plovs_> hornbeck, yes it does, at least some of them, even ubuntu does btw
[02:45] <hornbeck> yeah, that is still the debian installer though :-)
[02:45] <plovs_> i have an old crt for this
[02:47] <hornbeck> the only monitor I have right now is a lcd for my server
[02:48] <hornbeck> I am ordering a nice server with crt
[02:48] <hornbeck> getting a t1 line also :-)
[02:48] <hornbeck> I am happy
[02:48] <plovs_> hornbeck, cool
[02:49] <hornbeck> my boss is paying for all of it
[02:49] <plovs_> hornbeck, but if you use framebuffer then lcd is ok, and some lcd work fine
[02:49] <plovs_> hornbeck, your boss? are you blackmailing him?
[02:49] <hornbeck> he is a cool guy
[02:49] <hornbeck> I am going to host a site for himi
[02:49] <hornbeck> him
[02:49] <plovs_> would say so
[02:50] <hornbeck> he is buying my a six thousand dollor server
[02:50] <plovs_> what is it sun?
[02:50] <hornbeck> he said "You cannot run a server on a piece of crap"
[02:50] <hornbeck> a high end dell server
[02:50] <plovs_> right!
[02:51] <plovs_> how much space do you have a terabyte?
[02:51] <hornbeck> something like that
[02:51] <hornbeck> its nice
[02:51] <hornbeck> 2 gig ram
[02:51] <hornbeck> dual xeon's
[02:51] <plovs_> a bought an hp for < $1000 (without drives)
[02:51] <plovs_> what will you run? MS windows 2003?
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[02:52] <hornbeck> he wanted to order it with RedHat enterprise installed
[02:52] <hornbeck> we are going to use debian
[02:52] <plovs_> ok, i was already typing a long reply
[02:52] <plovs_> installing is a pain though
[02:53] <plovs_> if you want to use woody
[02:53] <hornbeck> woody just finished installing on my server
[02:53] <plovs_> fast!
[02:53] <hornbeck> will not boot though
[02:53] <hornbeck> damn
[02:54] <hornbeck> I think it wrote the bootloader wrong
[02:55] <plovs_> boot from the cd
[02:55] <hornbeck> I am
[02:55] <plovs_> lilo leaves something to be desired :)
[02:55] <hornbeck> this is grub
[02:56] <plovs_> i only have problems with grub on old computers, then i put it on hda1
[02:57] <hornbeck> I normally do mbr
[02:57] <hornbeck> but I think I skipped that step this time :-)
[02:57] <plovs_> we need a telepathy enabled installer
[03:01] <hornbeck> that would be nice
[03:03] <hornbeck> man the boot loader is all messed up
[03:24] <plovs_> i think i got my tickets figured out 350 euro's back and forth
=== hornbeck [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[03:43] <sivang> hornbeck : what were you discussing on -devel ? :)
[03:43] <sivang> anything interesting?
[03:46] <hornbeck> when
[03:46] <hornbeck> oh me and that guy
[03:46] <hornbeck> I told him we needed translations
[03:46] <hornbeck> cause he is russion
[03:46] <hornbeck> russian
[03:47] <hornbeck> you know I never make it to work on time anymore, you guys never talk till it is time for me to leave
[03:47] <hornbeck> :-)
[03:48] <plovs_> i can check the russian but i can't translate myself
[03:48] <plovs_> hornbeck does woody work?
[03:48] <hornbeck> no
[03:48] <hornbeck> I redid the bootloader by hand and still would not boot
[03:48] <hornbeck> I think I found the ssh problem though
[03:49] <hornbeck> I did have a firewall running on the router, and I think that was blocking it
[03:49] <hornbeck> we will see in a sec
[03:52] <ChrisH> Back, people...
[03:52] <hornbeck> ChrisH: what do you run on your servers?
[03:52] <ChrisH> plovs_: Debian/Sarge, Apache2, Subversion. Worked from the first moment.
[03:52] <ChrisH> plovs_ => hornbeck
[03:52] <hornbeck> ok
[03:53] <plovs_> hornbeck, nice if it gets rubbed in, right
[03:53] <hornbeck> yeah
[03:53] <hornbeck> if I knew what I was doing it would more than likly work :-)
[03:53] <hornbeck> have to learn sometime
[03:54] <plovs_> hornbeck, funny it did not work
[03:54] <plovs_> is it possible to install debian over ssh?
[03:54] <hornbeck> I don't know?
[03:54] <ChrisH> Nope.
[03:55] <hornbeck> man beagle will not build lately
[03:56] <ChrisH> hornbeck: What about your server? Fixed it finally?
[03:56] <hornbeck> no
[03:56] <ChrisH> hornbeck: What's wrong?
[03:56] <hornbeck> everything :-)
[03:56] <hornbeck> I can get apache to work
[03:56] <hornbeck> that is it
[03:56] <hornbeck> I am caught up on ssh
[03:56] <ChrisH> hornbeck: apt-get install apache2 and that's it...
[03:56] <hornbeck> I want it to work
[03:57] <ChrisH> hornbeck: What do you run there? Warty?
[03:57] <hornbeck> sarge right now
[03:57] <hornbeck> changed over
[03:57] <hornbeck> apache takes alittle more than apt-get install apache2
[03:58] <ChrisH> Why?
[03:58] <hornbeck> config files
[03:58] <ChrisH> Just copy/paste the few lines. I didn't change anything else here either.
[03:59] <hornbeck> I think I figured out the ssh problem so it should all be good in alittle while
[03:59] <hornbeck> I have to go to a meeting first though
[04:01] <ChrisH> If in the meantime anyone likes to help working on the FAQ and needs an account to subversion just tell me.
[04:01] <hornbeck> sarge will not let me install apache2
=== George^Deka [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[04:02] <George^Deka> hey all
[04:02] <hornbeck> apache2-mpm-perchild/prefork/worker all error out
[04:02] <George^Deka> ChrisH: which faq?
[04:02] <hornbeck> oh well, I will work on it later
[04:02] <hornbeck> bye guys
[04:02] <George^Deka> bloody warty wont install
[04:02] <ChrisH> George^Deka: plovs_ has started to move the current two cluttered FAQs into a DocBook/XML file.
[04:03] <ChrisH> George^Deka: I'm currently working on some general questions about Ubuntu. And we could of course use help there.
[04:03] <George^Deka> well installed step1 but wont boot after that
=== sivang pokes plovs_
[04:03] <ChrisH> George^Deka: e.g. someone who keeps an eye on mailing lists and adds FAQs voluntarily
[04:03] <plovs_> sivang, what's up?
[04:03] <George^Deka> ChrisH: yeah sure, but let my get my warty fixed - now to find those helpful folk in #ubuntu
=== ChrisH thinks we need two Doc Teams... :) One team with working systems and... another team. :)
[04:04] <sivang> hey plovs_ :) just wanted to know if you need a hand on the faq , or any other stuff..
[04:04] <George^Deka> hahahaha
[04:07] <plovs_> sivang, too late
=== sivang [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[04:17] <sivang> join #ubuntu-devel
[04:17] <ChrisH> sivang: Batteries out again?
[04:17] <ChrisH> msg sivang You are sooo stupid. :)
[04:19] <George^Deka> ChrisH you forgot the / look whos stupid now
[04:21] <sivang> he meant it that way, I think :)
[04:21] <sivang> btw, does anybody how I tell gnome to use alsa?
[04:21] <sivang> it's suddenly using OSS
[04:21] <sivang> :o/
[04:23] <ChrisH> George^Deka: That was on purpose. :)
[04:24] <ChrisH> Anyone got a recommendation on a cheap wifi card for the conf?
[04:26] <ChrisH> sivang: Shouldn't one of us (you?) start writing a doc-team-newbie-welcome page? Lulu already told us we should have some information what's currently on the to do list. So we can figure out what is in which state.
[04:26] <ChrisH> sivang: I'm confused, too, as my focus is on the FAQ currently.
[04:27] <plovs_> sivang, hi
[04:27] <George^Deka> sorry im not with it trying to make my machine boot
[04:31] <plovs_> ChrisH, doc-team-newbie-welcome: https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto
[04:32] <plovs_> ChrisH,  what's currently on the to do list  https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiToDo
[04:33] <plovs_> sivang, there is really nothing to help with, it is just stright-forward editing
[04:33] <ChrisH> plovs_: Ok. Although there is probably more than just tasks regarding the Wiki. FAQ maintenance from suggestions and mailing lists. Translation of documents (who translates what). Fixing man pages. Handling announces or perhaps a "Ubuntu Weekly News"...
[04:34] <sivang> ChrisH : yes ofcourse, pending..:)
[04:34] <plovs_> ChrisH, yes we should add all that stuff to either a doc-team todo-list or bugzilla
[04:35] <ChrisH> plovs_: I suggest Wiki. New users will probably just create a Wiki account and can easily add their tasks there.
[04:36] <plovs_> sivang, would you mind making a page and add the tasks ChrisH mentioned to it, and the stuff from wikitodo etc? I would rather continue with the faq
[04:36] <sivang> ofcourse, not a probem.
[04:36] <sivang> but it is going to be in MoinMoin :)
[04:37] <ChrisH> sivang: Okay... then I will learn MoinMoin, too... :)
[04:37] <sivang> haha
=== sivang is not so comfortable with ReST
[04:40] <plovs_> sivang it is really not that hard, by the time you have finished you doc you'll be a pro  https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto
[04:40] <sivang> ok, lemme have a go at that :)
[04:41] <plovs_> sivang, and comment on that page, one day it is supposed to be a userfriendly newbie-doc
[04:42] <sivang> what, the wiki? Or ReST ? (Yeah, like that is ever going to happen...)
[04:42] <sivang> :)
[04:42] <plovs_> https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DocumentHowto
[04:42] <George^Deka> first time i missed the link to the other rest pages
=== George^Deka needs his own personal linux guru so i can get this bloody system working - damn getting no where after hotplug
[04:46] <ChrisH> George^Deka: Does hotplug just hang?
[04:46] <George^Deka> seems like it, it does not say anything after hotplug and its just hanging there, i did have 2 modules that gave me errors before but blacklisted those and no change still hangs
[04:47] <ChrisH> George^Deka: I had trouble with a USB card reader. Just removing the extra hardware once and booting helped for the next time. Don't ask me why.
[04:48] <plovs_> do you guys use the remote desktop?
[04:48] <George^Deka> ChrisH: Good idea iv got a usb printer on it
[04:49] <ChrisH> plovs_: Yes.
[04:49] <plovs_> ChrisH is this supposed to work:
[04:49] <plovs_> ChrisH, i have a vnc connection to my main desktop
[04:49] <plovs_> ChrisH, i have fluxbox on vt8
[04:50] <plovs_> i go to vt8, my vnc connection goes bananas
[04:50] <plovs_> ?????
[04:50] <plovs_> vt7 is normal gnome
[04:50] <George^Deka> ChrisH: no avail
[04:50] <ChrisH> plovs_: Weird.
[04:50] <ChrisH> George^Deka: Even without the printer?
[04:51] <plovs_> ChrisH, my wife wants to watch a movie, i want to use gnome, i have only one monitor here, i thought i had it fixed
[04:51] <George^Deka> ChrisH: Well i thought it didnt work, but it did hang for only a second, im in !!!
[04:51] <ChrisH> George^Deka: cool
[04:51] <George^Deka> ChrisH your my saviour
[04:51] <ChrisH> George^Deka: :)
[04:52] <plovs_> George^Deka, hotplug is slow
[04:53] <George^Deka> plovs_: hotplug is crap now i need a smoke to recover from the pain it caused me
[04:55] <George^Deka> hope i didnt accidendly do a upgrade during installation, cause im on dial upn (broadband is so expensive here)
[05:07] <plovs_> ChrisH, what do you think would it be good idea to subdivide the divisions in the wiki?
[05:07] <ChrisH> plovs_: How exactly?
=== __randy__ [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[05:08] <plovs_> ChrisH, under installation i have: vmware/virtualpc  java/mono  but also first installation questions
[05:09] <ChrisH> plovs_: Ah, you mean <sect3>? Why not.
[05:13] <plovs_> ChrisH, anyway i'll first finish it then we can work on layout and videoclips
[05:13] <ChrisH> plovs_: Yeah, right. :)
=== ChrisH wonders if we should agree on a single Wiki format (be it Moin or ReST)
[05:14] <George^Deka> ChrisH: yes we should
[05:15] <George^Deka> ChrisH: can docbook convert to ReST
[05:15] <ChrisH> George^Deka: Not yet AFAIK. But I would take the challenge to write an XSLT stylesheet to do the conversion.
[05:16] <George^Deka> well my theory is docbook is so much easier to learn, and if we did everything in docbook it could then be converted to go into anything we wanted, portability
=== sivan_away yays for George^Deka
[05:17] <George^Deka> because then in theory howtos can be put on the wiki or plone and yelp
[05:17] <plovs_> George^Deka, ReST is for unfinished docs, wiki-able docbook is for stable docs, only the doc-book can alter them
[05:18] <ChrisH> I don't completely like the Wiki approach. But if you give me a few days I'll try the XSLT.
[05:18] <plovs_> ReST -> docbook would do the trick docbook -> ReST would not work in the long term
[05:18] <George^Deka> plovs_: good point, but maybe we just need the svn server for unfinished and we tell each other here and in ML
[05:19] <plovs_> George^Deka, sure, for the stable documentation, especially the stuff we want on the cd
[05:20] <George^Deka> yeah but whats the point in writing it in complicated ReST, when we are going to have to re-write it in docbook
[05:20] <George^Deka> thats the issue the re-writing
[05:21] <plovs_> George^Deka, ReST is not complicated (like riding a bike, really simple after you know how)
[05:21] <plovs_> George^Deka, rewriting is a pain yes
[05:21] <plovs_> George^Deka, ReST -> docbook , we need a python-wizard for that
[05:22] <George^Deka> plovs_: yes it is not the most complicated - but docbook because of its xml format is easier - espicially for someone new to documentation
[05:22] <George^Deka> plovs_: we do need a python wiz for that, wonder if mark will put a bounty up for it ?
[05:22] <plovs_> George^Deka, i humbly disagree, ReST is easier then docbook, docbook is *better*
[05:23] <plovs_> George^Deka, put it the wiki in wikitodo or our todo list
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[05:24] <George^Deka> put what in there a ReST to docbook converter
[05:24] <WW> Hi all
[05:24] <George^Deka> then we can clearly state everything is to be done in ReST (poor sivan_away)
=== WW scans log 
[05:25] <ChrisH> Thre are ReST to Docbook converters already.
[05:25] <ChrisH> Just that the output will hardly look like we want it to be.
[05:27] <George^Deka> yeah well just found one - http://docutils.sourceforge.net/sandbox/oliverr/docbook/
[05:27] <George^Deka> and its python by the look of it
[05:28] <ChrisH> George^Deka: Care to try it out?
[05:29] <George^Deka> my system is still installing so not yet
[05:29] <George^Deka> but soon
[05:29] <ChrisH> George^Deka: Press the "turbo" button. ;)
[05:30] <George^Deka> it dont have one
[05:33] <George^Deka> it boots!!!
[05:38] <George^Deka> think i set my resolution too low cause couldnt remeber what i usually use
[05:39] <plovs_> ChrisH, how do i make a numbered list?
[05:40] <ChrisH> plovs_: <orderedlist>?
[05:41] <ChrisH> plovs_: http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/orderedlist.html
[05:41] <ChrisH> plovs_: There is an example.
[05:42] <plovs_> ChrisH, thanks
=== WW [[email protected]]  has left #ubuntu-doc [] 
[05:47] <George^Deka> brb going to get on my new nix box
[05:47] <ChrisH> bbl, going home
=== George^Deka [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[05:55] <George^Deka> ChrisH: this thing will take a while to get going i think
[05:57] <George^Deka> what irc client do you people use
[06:00] <sivan_away> xchat
[06:00] <sivan_away> it sucks
[06:00] <sivan_away> :-/
[06:07] <George^Deka> thats what i am thinking, is there away to make it put the colon after someones name if its at the start of the sentance automatically
[06:07] <George^Deka> i had been using chatzilla the otherday it kicks ass over xchat
[06:08] <George^Deka> if only i could use chatzilla in a firefox tab then i would be set
[06:10] <George^Deka> i cant even find where to put the on connect options
=== George^Deka is now known as George_Deka
=== George_Deka is now known as George^Deka
[06:22] <George^Deka> how did you people go about upgrading fx to 1.0? i want to know details, did you rem distro vers ? did u just use the tar ? find a repo or what
[06:22] <George^Deka> this is good for me and the documentation
=== plovs2 [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[06:34] <George^Deka> how did you people go about upgrading fx to 1.0? i want to know details, did you rem distro vers ? did u just use the tar ? find a repo or what
[07:07] <George^Deka> nite all
[07:07] <George^Deka> cya
=== cenerentola [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
=== cenerentola [[email protected]]  has joined #ubuntu-doc
[10:38] <plovs_> ChrisH, awake?
[10:39] <ChrisH> plovs_: Yes. Just committed my part.
[10:39] <plovs_> ah, ok, well, i probably did something wrong, i added faq_ap_error
[10:39] <plovs_> which is my version of the faq
[10:39] <plovs_> i got errors syncing
[10:40] <plovs_> can you diff and patch?
[10:40] <ChrisH> plovs_: Can't you just "svn rm" it?
[10:40] <plovs_> well i can off course but my updates are in faq_ap_error
[10:40] <plovs_> i could not upload my faq.xml
[10:40] <ChrisH> ah, okay
[10:41] <plovs_> can you diff and patch?
[10:41] <ChrisH> You could check out an older version of the faq.xml and run "diff" on it to see what you need to paste into the "real" faq.xml
[10:42] <plovs_> ok, i'll put my changes in then
[10:44] <ChrisH> thanks...
[10:44] <ChrisH> How come you edited another document? Accident? :)
[10:46] <plovs_> no, i tried to commit and got an error, so to not accidently loose my data i copied it to faq_ap
[10:46] <ChrisH> Eek.
[10:46] <plovs_> i'll just mv to faq.xml and try to commit again
[10:47] <ChrisH> Ok. Either that works perfectly or there will be nothing left afterwards. :)
[10:47] <plovs_> well, looks like it worked
[10:48] <plovs_> my stuff is all there
[10:48] <ChrisH> Cool.
[10:48] <ChrisH> Just that all my changes are lost now. :(
[10:49] <plovs_> i have a diff
[10:52] <ChrisH> Do you restore my changes?
[10:53] <plovs_> how do i checkout v29?
[10:53] <plovs_> it is yours
[10:54] <ChrisH> svn update -r 29
[10:57] <plovs_> are your changes in 29?
[10:58] <plovs_> because i am wondering how to unite the diff
[10:59] <plovs_> the dif i had is the same as a dif between 29 and 30
[11:01] <ChrisH> Hmmm.
[11:02] <ChrisH> Perhaps we need to read a little more in subversion.tigris.org
[11:04] <plovs_> yes, i am reading now, we somehow crossed eachother
[11:04] <ChrisH> Perhaps something like "svn revert"...
[11:04] <plovs_> it is all there v27,v29 and v30, but how to unite it
[11:05] <plovs_> i made copies of all 3
[11:05] <plovs_> in a seperate folder
[11:09] <ChrisH> Hmmm.
[11:11] <plovs_> i think i fixed it, i put the following file in svn test.xml, can you test it
[11:11] <plovs_> ok, uploaded it
[11:12] <enrico> need svn help?
[11:12] <sivang> hey enrico!
[11:12] <plovs_> enrico, i messed up the faq, now we need to entangle it
[11:12] <plovs_> ChrisH, does test.xml have your commits?
[11:13] <ChrisH> I check.
[11:14] <enrico> plovs_: if you have any specific question about svn, I can try to help
[11:14] <ChrisH> Nope... my changes are gone again.
[11:14] <ChrisH> enrico: Cool!
[11:14] <enrico> plovs_: just put my name on the channel and I'll be summoned
[11:14] <enrico> (unless I'm offline)
[11:14] <plovs_> enrico, well, we have three versions v27,v29 and v30
[11:15] <plovs_> enrico, and on the way we lost ChrisH additions
[11:15] <plovs_> ChrisH, which one still has them?
[11:15] <ChrisH> revision 29 still has them
[11:15] <sivang> are we talking about the FAQ here?
[11:15] <ChrisH> then plovs_ committed revision 30 (after a file rename) and my changed were overwritten
[11:16] <ChrisH> Yes.
[11:16] <plovs_> yes
[11:16] <enrico> how about make a diff between 27 and 29, then apply it to 30?
[11:16] <plovs_> enrico, it fails all over
[11:16] <enrico> svn diff -r 27:29
[11:17] <plovs_> enrico, ok, i try
[11:17] <enrico> THat generates the diff 
[11:17] <enrico> then you can use patch to apply to 30
[11:17] <enrico> Do I have access to that repository?
[11:18] <plovs_> enrico then patch faq.xml < 27-29.diff ?
[11:18] <enrico> plovs_: yes
[11:18] <enrico> and see what happens
[11:19] <enrico> where faq.xml comes from v30
[11:19] <plovs_> ChrisH, can you svn up to 32?
[11:19] <plovs_> ChrisH, and check?
[11:20] <plovs_> ChrisH, nope, 32 is a mess
[11:21] <enrico> Is there a public read-only access to that at least?
[11:21] <ChrisH> let's see
[11:22] <ChrisH> enrico: sure... http://ubuntu.workaround.org:8080/faq
[11:22] <ChrisH> enrico: I can instantly give you write access. Thanks for your help.
[11:22] <enrico> Cool!  How do I do a write checkout?
[11:22] <ChrisH> enrico: "svn co http://ubuntu.workaround.org:8080/faq" should work
[11:23] <ChrisH> enrico: /msg me a password you like to get for the write access and I'll set up an account
[11:23] <enrico> works
[11:23] <enrico> ChrisH: do you have a gpg key?  If yes, just tell me the key ID
[11:24] <plovs_> enrico, so we need to resolve the difference between v29 and v30
[11:24] <ChrisH> enrico: should be 79CC6586
[11:25] <ChrisH> enrico: will you send me a password?
[11:25] <enrico> ChrisH: yes, encrypted via mail.  Is that ok?
[11:25] <ChrisH> enrico: /msg had been sufficient :)
[11:25] <enrico> ChrisH: that's cleartext transmission :)
[11:25] <ChrisH> enrico: after all... we can revert changes if the repository would get compromised
[11:28] <enrico> ChrisH: Sent
[11:28] <ChrisH> enrico: k
[11:28] <enrico> So, we have that the changes from v27 to v29 are lost in v32: is that correct?
[11:29] <ChrisH> enrico: Yes, I think so.
[11:31] <plovs_> enrico, can we revert to 29?
[11:31] <enrico> uhm, ehu
[11:31] <ChrisH> enrico: account created
[11:31] <enrico> ehi, I mean: all changes from 27 to 29 are also in 32
[11:31] <enrico> I just went through the whole diff
[11:32] <plovs_> 32 doesn't parse
[11:32] <plovs_> i have a diff of my changes from 29 -> 30
[11:32] <plovs_> can we revert to 29? 
[11:32] <plovs_> then i just add my changes and were done
[11:33] <plovs_> so delete 30 - 32
[11:33] <enrico> Wait: the contents in the rest of the document are ok.  We just have to make it parse
[11:33] <enrico> let's see...
[11:34] <ChrisH> enrico: 32 contains two files!
[11:35] <enrico> ChrisH: I'm at version 32 and I have Makefile README faq.xml test.xml ubuntu.xsl
[11:35] <ChrisH> enrico: try "grep DOCTYPE faq.xml"
[11:35] <ChrisH> enrico: you'll see that these are the two versions just concated
[11:36] <enrico> Oh!  So nice!
[11:37] <enrico> I suggest to split that in two files, then use meld on them
[11:37] <enrico> apt-get install meld
[11:37] <plovs_> enrico, is just reverting to 29 not easier?
[11:37] <ChrisH> I'll split them and join that manually.
=== ChrisH just wonders how that has happened
[11:38] <enrico> I just checked with meld: the second half is just an old version
[11:38] <enrico> Just delete the second half of the file
[11:40] <ChrisH> Did it. Commited. 33 should be clean now.
[11:40] <enrico> btw, I so much suggest to aptitude install meld
[11:41] <ChrisH> enrico: I run "vim -d"... worked well for me
[11:42] <plovs_> doesn't parse
[11:42] <enrico> vim -d is cool as wel
[11:43] <enrico> plovs_: parses here
[11:43] <enrico> plovs_: try rm faq.xml; svn update
[11:43] <enrico> (or mv faq.xml faq1.xml :)
[11:44] <plovs_> yes, removed it and svn up, now it's ok
[11:44] <plovs_> ChrisH, my stuff is ok, yours?
[11:45] <ChrisH> plovs_: same
[11:45] <enrico> "svn blame -r32 faq.xml"  shows that the second half comes from plovs, so it may have been plovs' copy that was broken somehow
[11:45] <ChrisH> enrico: Great!
[11:45] <ChrisH> enrico is da bomb
[11:45] <ChrisH> enrico: I know it. It must have been plovs_ mistake. ;)
=== enrico cheers at the thing working again!
[11:46] <plovs_> enrico, but how did 30 happen? (32 is just 30 patched with the diff between 27 and 29)
=== plovs_ bows his head in shame
[11:47] <enrico> plovs_: it's not your fault, probably
[11:47] <ChrisH> plovs_: No need to. I'm also interested in how to resolve such conflicts. Using subversion the normal way is boring if everything works. :)
[11:47] <enrico> I imagine something borked somewhere
[11:47] <plovs_> enrico, thanks for fixng it
[11:48] <enrico> no problem!
[12:00] <plovs_> ok, updated 34, the faq have basically been put in, now they need order and checking