[12:03] bbl [12:03] lamont_r: do you plan another iso ? [12:03] .. just took -16 ;) [12:03] yes. Plan to burn one with (hopefully) new artwork for grub screen, and definitely WinFOSS 0.4, in about 6 hours. [12:04] I'm currently installing ubuntu's gnome 2.8 on my sid system in an attempt to see what explodes. This should prove interesting [12:04] right now, must run. [12:04] chrisa: you're sick, you know. [12:04] good luck [12:04] lamont_r: cu [12:13] wow, it worked [12:16] try with woody ;) [12:17] heh [12:17] I should probably pin this correctly === theantix [~ryan@80.185.novustelecom.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:20] if it runs <1 Week, you win a Beer and become the master of moving bits. === chrisa looks at the spare hardware in the office and grins [12:23] upgrading from sarge, that manages even my 3 year old daughter:) [12:24] .. or sid ;) [12:25] <__daniel> amu, that's what my dog did last night :-) [12:27] Ahh, I think you know also storry with the chicken ;) [12:27] <__daniel> amu, erm... no i dont :-) [12:28] which debian installed.... [12:29] <__daniel> amu, not really, but i hope there's someone who tells it to me as a good night tale :-) [12:29] no tale, you should ask joey about it ;) [12:31] there are much more interessting things, like sending tcp packages with pigeon ;) [12:33] <__daniel> amu, hehe... yesterday they talked about the good old times in 1903 were the internet was still cool and they had to carry packages up- and downhill even in the snow - that reminded me of those pigeons :-) [12:38] <__daniel> amu, haha, found the chickens on http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=0172 :-) [12:40] live is interesting ;) [12:42] Ng: if you're certain that you are correct about it being a duplicate, then it is very helpful for you to mark it [12:42] mdz: ok, I'll make sure I check it thoroughly [12:42] thanks [12:43] Ng: if you are unsure, then feel free to comment [12:43] and someone will review and confirm [12:43] ok, cool :) [12:44] is there policy yet about modifying things to use gksudo/sudo? e.g. gnome-system-tools uses su, but appears to be easily modifyable to use sudo su as a quick hack. would that be frowned upon? === jdahlin [~jdahlin@14.Red-80-39-193.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:46] Ng: our g-s-t uses gksudo [12:47] Ng: things which use su in the Ubuntu desktop are bugs [12:47] jdub: the desktop entries do, but you can make it use internal routines that call su, e.g. the "Configure" button in Applications->System->Network Tool [12:47] Ng: that bug is already reported (twice) [12:48] oh, that's a different module [12:48] and it is bad that it wasn't fixed [12:48] but i don't think anyone realised that was in the new version [12:48] mdz: I know, fessing up, I didn't actually wait for your answer before marking the duplicate ;) [12:48] and I'm part way to a patch for it [12:49] if it's a simple and safe fix, that'd be a good candidate for warty-updates [12:50] mdz: would we consider it 'high-impact', 'dataloss' or 'security'? [12:50] it is looking like it'll be pretty simple, I'm just tying what is mostly a one liner into autoconf. the only snag I have hit is that there is a string that says "root password" that could use rewording and thus translation :/ [12:50] it uses it's own su foo? [12:51] jdub: given that two people have run into it already, apparently it's functionality in the desktop that people use, it's broken, and there's a trivial fix [12:51] jdub: it spawns a pty, runs su and the module with it, feeding it the pw [12:51] ok, maybe not so trivial :-) [12:51] src/common/gst-auth.c (last function) [12:51] i *hate* that === jdub is reminded to add permissions elevation to HH [12:52] it seems to work just making the su_args array one larger by putting sudo as arg[0] :) [12:52] I'm curious about the development model. Do all developers work for canonical, or are you globally distributed? [12:52] gma: all the developers on warty work for canonical, *and* are globally distributed :-) [12:52] I'm currently arguing with dpkg-buildpackage though ;) [12:52] gma: but now there are heaps of community members helping out [12:52] cool. [12:52] Ng: hrm, might want to check if they copied code from gnome-system-monitor [12:52] are canonical open to applications? [12:52] Ng: daniels fixed that [12:53] jdub: ooh, cool === jdahlin [~jdahlin@14.Red-80-39-193.pooles.rima-tde.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [12:53] jdub: HH? [12:56] mdz: hoary page [12:56] ah [12:56] jdub: what about permissions elevation? [12:56] attempting to standardise on something [12:59] jdub: it looks similar, but not close enough to just yoink the code over :( [12:59] I'd say they have a common origin, but the g-s-t one is split up more so it can do ssh auth too === gma [~graham@capella.plus.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === elmo_ [~james@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:19] btopenworld? does that mean they use opensource? :) [01:20] probably not ;) [01:20] morning elmo_ [01:20] BT like things that are slow and bad and expensive ;) [01:21] argh [01:21] hey jdub [01:22] the gnome-system-tools configure script is telling me I need intltool 0.29 or later, but I just installed ubuntu's, which is 0.31 or something. any ideas? [01:22] if I can just make the thing compile I think my patch is done and trivial enough to be safe [01:24] aha, the source package was missing a file or I didn't run enough auto* stuff [01:25] <__daniel> Ng, what version of g-s-t did you try to ./configure ? [01:26] __daniel: 1.0.0-0ubuntu7 [01:27] I just apt-get source'd it, changed configure.in and a .c file and dpkg-buildpackage'd it [01:27] <__daniel> Ng, that's strange: "apt-get source gnome-system-tools; cd gnome-system*; ./configure" ran fine at my place [01:27] I did change a string in a glade file too, so that and/or the configure.in change probably needed auto* to run more things [01:28] I had to copy intltool-update.in from intltool's install directory to the "backends" directory in g-s-t [01:28] it could easily be my mistake though, it's probably a couple of years since I last did any of this ;) [01:29] <__daniel> i don't get why they don't have a proper autogen.sh [01:32] *shrug* :) === Ng sticks his patch in bugzilla, hopefully the first of many :) [01:34] g-s-t isn't going to work doing remote module without further patching though [01:35] well, if the target machine is ubuntu at least [01:35] since it ssh's as root :/ [01:37] <__daniel> Ng, ssh-as-root should never really be an option in a program [01:37] well it isn't a great idea to spawn a pty and use it to run su to get root, but they do ;) [01:42] ugh [01:42] ok [01:42] totally have to figure otu sound on this machine [01:46] lamont: live cd -16 seems to have solved the "see-through desktop" issue on the tosh [01:59] Oh, wow [01:59] lamont's been flamed on Advogato [02:01] it's a valid point. === lupus_ [~lupus@kn-ivl-2.kuleuven.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:06] so what are some of our "all the drivers work but there's no audio output" solutions? [02:06] parallel port is disabled in bios, and modules are not loaded [02:06] audio definitely worked with early ubuntu kernels [02:12] Is the hardware unmuted? [02:12] yes [02:13] done by ubuntu by default [02:15] On all channels? [02:16] Is there a hardware mixer? [02:17] no [02:20] If you try to play something, does the interrupt number in /proc/interrupts increase? [02:22] yes [02:22] Any messages in dmesg? [02:23] 130 -> 248 that time ;) [02:23] Sounds like it's either a mixer issue or you've managed to get two sound drivers loaded... [02:24] there's only the first device's stuff under /dev/snd [02:24] Hrm. [02:24] And lsmod only shows one snd-something driver loaded? [02:24] one module in /proc/asound/modules [02:25] no, there's heaps [02:25] but actual drivers could include snd_bt87x [02:26] removed, still the same [02:26] Uh. bt87x sounds a touch worrying. [02:26] (this machine has a dvb card in it) [02:26] Yeah [02:26] I've had problems with hotplug loading snd_bt87x before snd_emu10k1 and breaking sound [02:26] I'd worry that that might have presented a mixer device, and then the wrong stuff may have been loaded [02:26] what idem Ng [02:27] idem [02:27] I mean :) [02:27] i'll try loading snd_intel8x0 in /etc/modules [02:27] If you remove and then reinsert the correct module and then check the mixer, what does it look like? [02:27] Ok, that works too :) [02:27] lupus_: eh? ;) === jdub did not realise that distrowatch was seen as a big deal [02:28] ng I mean bttv also broke my sound because it is loaded before the soundcard [02:28] ah :) [02:28] I only had that with debian, for some reason ubuntu gets it right [02:29] I thought it was dependant on PCI ordering because it's hotplug doing it and it works in bus order [02:29] A friend of my was complaining the other day that he couldn't switch between his 2 soundcards for sound [02:29] a tool that could do this would also fix this issue :) [02:30] yeah [02:30] and should be possible on the fly without rebooting :) [02:33] hrmph === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:42] <__daniel> good night guys [02:44] are there plans to let hald use fstab-sync to add all the partitions in /etc/fstab (vfat,ntfs etc) ? === jamesh [~james@203-59-111-20.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:22] mjg59: lamont's been flamed on Advogato? [03:34] for a documentation-impaired changelog entry. [03:34] ... by Mathieu Roy. [03:35] ... and the middle-of-the-road "testing" release seems to offer the worst of both "stable" and "unstable." [03:35] (from lwn) [03:35] re: ubuntu and debian [03:42] that's a curious characterization. I wonder what they think the best parts of unstable are that testing doesn't have -- the RC-buggy packages that will never make it in? ;) [03:43] Indeed === Keybuk [~scott@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:23] Both hotplug and discover shouldn't need run at the same time, right? [04:25] chrisa: indeed, they _must not_ both run [04:25] 'lo [04:25] mdz: So which is preferred for a laptop type system? [04:25] chrisa: hotplug is preferred in all cases, and is the Ubuntu default [04:29] morning tseng [04:30] Keybuk: so if we have out of control evolution processes guzzling RAM like nobody's business, what's the most useful tool i can ask a user to run to get some idea of where the problem lies? [04:36] mjg59: url for the flamage? [04:47] lamont: http://www.advogato.org/person/yeupou/diary.html?start=63 [04:49] jamesh: you mean people actually read changelogs.? === tseng does. [04:50] apt-listchanges... [04:50] apparently. [04:50] lamont: it's all mdz's fault for that fancy apt-listchanges hoowah. [04:50] but im hardly offended by someone refering to a bug #, as a gentoo dev we did that all the time [04:50] heh [04:51] that one was basically one of me going, "well, that one's definitely fixed by now." And there are probably others [04:51] make a keybinding that pipes xclip -out, containing the bug number to the end of a bugzilla search query, and send it to the brower [04:51] "5 minutes" becomes a fraction of a second [04:51] maybe he expected you to paste the bind release notes into the changelog. [04:52] better yet, I built it with the wrong email address.... [04:52] reading on, this guy is a complete tool [04:53] id ignore it [04:53] isn't yeupou mathie roy? [04:53] mathieu, even [04:53] yep. [04:57] interesting. only 2 peers on BT for i386, and I haven't served a single powerpc or amd64 torrent; contrast with pushing 1.5MB/s (bytes, not bits) for the preview [04:57] everybody who downloaded the preview died of shock when they found out how good it was? :P [05:02] all the upgraders ;) [05:08] my goal is to have people see the download progress meter and [05:08] kill themselves because they know they will never see [05:08] something more eleet than that [05:08] i think that's a pretty good model to be aiming for [05:08] the download progress meter is pretty 31337 [05:10] in bittorrent? [05:11] jdub: in apt [05:12] jdub: (culus being the apt maintainer or something, as well as an admin; in true debian style, he is, of course, almost entirely invisible) [05:12] oh, the experimental versions of apt? [05:12] dunno, don't think there's really been a new major apt for quite some time [05:12] jdub: apt's current download progress meter === jdub furrows brow, makes dubious glancing looks around the room. [05:14] jdub: dude, it's rad [05:15] it's ill [05:15] how about 'Ill Network Management' as a Hoary goal? [05:16] or 'Ill Link Beat Detection To Make Your Computer Start Up Like Twenty Minutes Quicker When You're Not Plugged In To A Network' [05:16] we'd start saying things like 'network beat box' and confusing the crap out of everyone [05:16] how about 'Ill 802.1X and WPA Integration' [05:16] network beat box! i love it! [05:16] can we please have that? [05:17] fight the power man, all those wireless security protocols are crackrock [05:17] yay for ssh [05:17] it's not about security, it's about authentication. :) [05:18] yeah, and i want to know who you are before i give you any cookies [05:19] jd not *those* cookies. [05:19] oh man. bong. [05:19] daniels@catsby:~/video% ping 192.168.1.1 [05:19] PING 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data. [05:19] From 210.8.1.21 icmp_seq=1 Packet filtered [05:19] From 210.8.1.21 icmp_seq=2 Packet filtered [05:19] maybe ifplugd wasn't quite as phat as I'd hoped. [05:19] apt should use GL to produce a rendered pie graph for completion [05:20] bob2: and it should use COMPOSITE [05:20] or something. [05:20] hahaha === daniels decides to research stuff like ifplugd. === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:22] NetworkManager will be cool in about 2 years [05:23] i just want /etc/init.d/networking to say 'hey! no cable! ill!' and go along its merry way and not bother me. [05:23] tseng: two years? no way, it's getting lots of attention [05:24] daniels: iirc redhat does that with mii-tool [05:24] checking for cable. [05:25] daniels: that would be rad [05:26] daniels: (what about localhost?) [05:27] jdub: hm? [05:28] jdub: well, just not spend an hour trying to bring up DHCP and NTP [05:28] ctrl plus c, works for me [05:28] but doing it right would be cool. [05:28] yeah, but I usually restart after X crashes, which means I go off to get another glass of water/cup of tea [05:30] daniels: I imagine there's no binary driver bits for ATI rage mobility, true? [05:31] not at all [05:31] were you after a specific feature, or just wondering? [05:32] wondreing [05:33] can't we just let ifplugd do the whole thing? [05:33] trying to figure out how to maximize my radeon 7500 on the desktop as well. [05:33] or does it not notice when something is already plugged in? [05:33] guess I should read the howto. [05:33] morning guys [05:33] NM > ifplugd (and friends) [05:33] ah [05:34] hrm, is there a sane way to completely upgrade a sid system to ubuntu? [05:36] you can use pinning. [05:36] chrisa: apt doesn't consider it a true upgrade [05:36] but it's kinda dodgy. [05:36] back up the important stuff, wipe it out, and install from a CD? sid has newer versions than a lot of what's in Ubuntu. It'll be messy. [05:36] since some packages are newer (higher version) in sid than in warty, and vice versa [05:36] lamont: Right, I've noticed (due to various epochs and version numbers) [05:37] if you want to go that route, it might be safer to wait until Hoary opens for development, and update from the development repository. [05:37] (it'll be a more-recent snapshot of sid, and not frozen yet) [05:38] chrisa: sadly, it's completey unsupportable. woody->warty, no problem. sarge/sid from before 2004-06-28, should be no problem. sarge/sid from after that, install, or go the masochistic route first, and eventually probably do the install anyway [05:38] or wait for hoary to open [05:38] lamont: I realize that, I'm just experimenting on a sid box I'm not concerned with for fun really [05:39] heh, force downgrade to <2004-06-28 via snapshot.d.n, and upgrade? ;=) [05:39] I wouldn't do this on a serious system [05:39] ah, well, there is on sane way to cross grade from current sid to warty. [05:39] kylem: You're nuts! [05:39] thank you. === lamont ^5s kylem [05:40] hrm.. still have about 600MB of free space in my dvd tree. what to add.... [05:40] lamont: what is this supposed sane way? [05:41] s/on/no/ [05:41] ah [05:41] I think this box needs ruining, I'll try kyle's method === lamont hands chrisa some rubber gloves === chrisa chuckles as he watches this take place [05:46] lamont: any more testing for the live? [05:49] fabbione: waiting for artwork from jeff [05:49] artwork.. [05:49] planned changes from rc to rc2 are: (1) grub screen, (2) new WinFOSS. === tseng yawns [05:50] fabbione: if you grab -16 and want to play with a firmware-needing card to see if that works, that'd be way cool [05:52] daniels: hum, ifplugd always seems to work for me. ... "Packet filtered"? [05:53] lamont: have you got a firmware for these aironet pcmcia cards you're fond of? the cisco website wants some username/password and doesn't accept the one it gave me [05:53] lamont: i don't have any firmware based card.. sorry [05:54] elmo_: already up? [05:54] or you didn't go to sleep yet? [05:55] elmo_: not sure - I can poke someone tomorrow to see what version they have [05:56] lamont: do you have the grub.conf for the livecd? [05:56] jdub: I expect so.. let me go look [05:56] lamont: or know if it grub itself is modified in any way? === vorlon was actually wondering why Warty didn't use ifplugd, and I guess breaking things would be a good reason. ;) [05:58] lamont: oh [05:58] lamont: hold on, it's using gfxboot fork [05:58] fabbione: not slept yet [05:58] lamont: cool thanks [05:58] jdub: yes - gfxboot-grub [05:59] elmo_: what version firmware do you have? [05:59] and 350, I assume? [05:59] Firmware Version: 5.02.19 [05:59] jdub: I have the complete gfxboot-grub tree that built the package, if that helps... [05:59] yeah, 360 [05:59] err 350 [05:59] 360? [05:59] ok [06:01] vorlon: yeah, it bonged up my interface [06:01] jdub: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/LiveCD/morphix/source/morphix-iso-grubtheme_0.1-3ubuntu4.dsc [06:01] and tar.gz [06:02] jdub: work for you if I go to bed at this point, and plan to build in about 8 hours? [06:03] ok [06:03] jdub: anything else you need before I crash? [06:04] nup, should be ok :) [06:04] thanks [06:07] thanks. artwork hacking isn't my forte and all that... [06:07] hrm, do you stil lhave a copy of the current pcx? === lamont decides to start his warty-release DVD burn before he sleeps [06:07] the current pcx is in that source package === KeyserSoze [unbound@pound.ifndef.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:07] (that _is_ the source package that built the current world...) [06:07] o [06:07] rock, ta [06:08] or did you mean the morphix thing? [06:08] hello [06:08] ha, the morphix one [06:08] hey KeyserSoze ! [06:08] hey man [06:08] guys... [06:08] KeyserSoze has a problem on ubuntu on amd64 [06:08] perhaps someone here can help him? [06:08] yeah please [06:09] trying to get an oracle install going [06:09] there's your problem [06:09] oh [06:09] jdub: if you do wnat the morphix one, it's scp-able from chinstrap:~lamont/morphix.pcx [06:09] ;) [06:09] but we get this error from the jre: [06:09] current locale is not supported in X11, locale is set to CX locale modifiers are not supported, using defaultException in thread "main" java.lang.InternalError: Current locale is not supported [06:09] we already checked the locale [06:09] and no matter what I try it still thinks its on locale CX [06:09] and it is set properlyu [06:09] can it be an amd64 glitch? [06:10] what is the locale set to? [06:10] let's take this to #ubuntu, it's not development-related [06:10] mdz: i told him to join here === ph [~ph@pD9E6B520.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:11] fabbione: why? [06:11] ok I'll go to ubuntu I don't care [06:24] jdub: you're done with artwork for me already> [06:24] ? [06:24] i hope so [06:24] might look like poo [06:24] aren't you in bed yet? :) [06:24] feh. Now I have to stay up for a while [06:24] heh [06:25] should I care that you sent it twice? [06:25] geez [06:25] that'd be evo [06:25] stupid thing [06:27] hrm... actually, -4 was my screwing around, I think,. [06:27] -3ubuntu3 was really what we're using [06:27] anyway, building -3ubuntu5 now === lamont will test the home edition first, in about an hour or so. === casche [~asche@blk-215-116-66.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Ferry [~Ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont passes the time by burning his 3.7GB warty install dvd [07:16] heh, nice [07:19] all of main, and a little bit of universe. binary and source [07:19] basically, my full mirror + the udebs [07:19] must kill d-i for not dealing well with having Packages.gz instead of Packages.... [07:20] this'll be interesting... burning a dvd+rw and a cd-rw at the same time... cdrw drive is slave on the bus with the DVD... [07:21] burning home edition [07:21] have we disabled uploads yet? [07:22] pretty sure [07:22] should probably do it soon [07:22] cool [07:22] was talk of allowing uploads to fix previously-ftbfs packages in universe/multiverse, and I need to upload a new mplayer to multiverse once I'm done with livecd.. [07:22] yeah [07:22] right now, it works for anyone with a Xeon, and no one else.:-( [07:23] ouch [07:23] I gave it about 2 minutes today, but that attempt was FTBFS [07:23] basically, it built customized for the buildd hardware, instead of runtime cpu detection [07:23] dvd write went from 2.4x to 0.6x :-( [07:24] otoh, pio-based cdrw write is chunking along quite happily === lamont discovered macadamia toffee this week [07:28] cdrw fixating [07:28] dvd getting squat [07:30] jdub: did you touchup the logo at all on the grub screen? [07:30] btw, timer working perfectly. [07:30] not as cute, but definitely working. :) [07:31] lamont: kinda [07:31] ok [07:31] lamont: not as cute as...? how can i make it better? [07:32] jdub: I had officially declared the double bar thing to be "cute". [07:32] ahr [07:32] so now it's just white bars on a brown background? [07:33] http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041021-06/warty-live-i386-20041021-06.iso [07:34] thaytan put release dates on the generated release names :) [07:34] white _bar_ (full width), instead of 2 partially white bars at 1/3 width [07:34] jdub: too much time, I tell ya [07:34] jdub: you have enough bandwidth to test that image? [07:34] no :| [07:35] I'm going to bed, mind you. === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:lamont] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Warty Day! | 13 (count 'em) major bugs | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is DONE | please test http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041021-06/warty-live-i386-20041021-06.iso so it can be warty-rc2-live-i386.iso [07:36] ahr [07:36] okay, will chat to you about making it sexier in the morning [07:36] ooh - could i get a photo? :) [07:36] camera is in the car. [07:36] must I ? === calc [~ccheney@cdm-208-180-235-130.cnro.cox-internet.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:37] can anyone confirm for me that they can run a java app under ubuntu on amd64 using either blackdown or sun jre please? === lamont goes to the car [07:38] lamont: nah, don't worry [07:39] ew. bad burn [07:39] have camera, rebooting now [07:40] wohoo, all trashapplet boogs are fixed [07:42] http://people.u.c/~lamont/dscn1379.jpg [07:42] and the arrows are even where they belong. :-) [07:43] heh [07:43] ok, so, gotta do something with the top left [07:45] "resistance is futile" [07:45] anyway, send me more artwork. night. [07:45] thanks! [07:45] night === mdz_ [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:17] hmm, it's getting light already :) time to go to bed === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jk [~jochem@jkossen.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === x4m [~max@215.154-200-80.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:12] Morning [09:31] mdz_: still here? === vorlon_ [vorlon@dsl093-039-086.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:40] ello === |trey| [~trey@ip68-230-75-109.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione kicks X straight in the balls [09:46] hey thom [09:46] thom: how was the party yesterday? [09:46] it was cool [09:46] good bunch turned up [09:47] nice [09:49] Hi thom [09:50] hi fabbione [09:51] hey pitti [09:51] fabbione: been at a release party as well? In some LUG? [09:51] Gosh, this thing gets longer and longer [09:52] pitti: no.. at home sandpapering walls and taking away 20 huge plastic bags of trash from the works [09:52] I mean the channel subject :-) [09:52] fabbione: oh, sounds like exactly the right thing to do after an exhausting release day :-) [09:52] pitti: of course [09:52]