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[speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] All right, I had to register us in there. Hopefully you're a basketball fan. [speaker001:] Excuse me. [speaker002:] Hopefully you're a basketball fan. [speaker001:] Yeah, I'm from Indiana. [speaker002:] Great, I'm glad you are, I'm not. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I couldn't care about any of it. But go ahead, I, I would like to talk about, uh, maybe college basketball. I'd like to see it be more of an amateur sport. I'd like to see it turned back to like the Southwest Conference down here, I would like to see Texas and all the [whistling] teams, uh, since we're supposed to talk about specific teams, I would like to see them turned back to where the college player plays for four years, and then, they're not, they're not semi-pro [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and just go on and are stolen by the N-, the, the League, you know, in three years, plus I'd like to see them to be true athletes where they're, they're taking a regular college course. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] You know, I'd like to see, they didn't ask that, but they're talking about college teams, I, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Since you're being, you can talk for hours, go ahead, you, you, if you like sports go right ahead with this one. [speaker001:] Um, well, I know like what you just said, um, Purdue had to, had to, uh, their best player this year, you know, averaged twenty points a game [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] they had to make him sit the bench. And actually kicked him off the team because, um, his, uh, grades, even though they passed Big Ten standings and they passed, you know, N C double A, they weren't, they did not pass, um, Purdue requirements. And so, [speaker002:] That's surprising that they, that they have better requirements. That's good. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] That's what I like to see. Go ahead. [speaker001:] And see, [speaker002:] I'm all for that. [speaker001:] so he was treated like all the rest of students, you know. [speaker002:] That's great. [speaker001:] And so, um, their very best player, they probably lost over half their games, because, you know, by twenty points, which is what he averaged, um, and so, you know, he had to sit, you know, he was kicked off the team. And then they've got three players, top, you know, recruiting class this year that they're going to have to be, well, the, the prep school they go to before they can play [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] because they aren't smart enough. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] You know, it's just sad because, I mean, Purdue, even though they're one of the few schools that really, uh, stress academics, they're suffering, you know and, [speaker002:] Oh, I, I agree. I think that that, there's a lot of inconsistencies when some conference, uh, players come from outside of Texas, you know, and play us here. Uh, they're obviously practicing sixty hours a week, you know, and there's no consistency. Seems to me, that like Purdue, when they're trying, a student athlete is spending so many hours in class. He only has twenty, twenty-five, whatever hours he has to spend on practice. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] He should be playing, they all should be playing another team that, that has about twenty hours to practice a week. [speaker001:] Like. [speaker002:] But there are teams that practice sixty hours a week, they're not going to class at all. I mean, that's, that's [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] what I mean by semi-pro. There's too many semi-pros in college and I think they ought to get rid of that. [speaker001:] That's what happened to this guy. I mean, he was, uh, he didn't go to class, and so they just said, you know, you can't make the grades, you're going to have to, see you later. [speaker002:] Well, I'm all for, I'm all for the, oh baseball has a, uh, a, uh minor league system, and I think that the football and basketball, they asked us to talk about basketball, should, you know, let, let them go, have a semi-pro team. But I think, I'd like to see college athletes, let's talk about college basketball. I like that. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Any basketball that I like, I like that. I, I don't, I don't like the pros at all. [speaker001:] I don't either. It's. [speaker002:] Uh, they're high scoring, there's no defense it seems like, and they just kind of score a hundred twenty five points, you know, hundred twenty-two, you know, and I don't really get much out of that. [speaker001:] Yeah. Um, yeah, it is fun to watch some real disciplined teams play in, in college. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And I saw Princeton, I think it was, or Harvard play this year. They're like all white, and their starting guard had S A T scores of fifteen hundred. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And it was so funny to watch them play against the other teams, because, it was like, they played so much smarter and more disciplined. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I don't know if they won very many games. But, I don't know, their style of play was so much different from [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] from the teams that just run and gun. [speaker002:] Yeah, I like high school football, which again is not the subject, but that's so much fun to watch because they're, they're pure amateurs, you know, and there's no money involved. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] You go to college, you don't really know, it loses it somewhere. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Whatever sport it is, if they're really putting a lot of money in, these players, let's face it, ninety percent are being paid. So. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I'd like to see college basketball and all the other sports go back to being amateurs. I don't care about seeing the best players in the world play. I like to see the people going to Texas just play, the ones that are in class. And I'd like to see athletes, uh, or fellow students, like myself, you know, to play the game. I, I, in fact, I like amateur sports. I don't see it has to be, I don't think that college football, or basketball, should have to be semi-pro, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I wish it'd return to the good old days of the amateur. Everybody play. That's what I like, everybody should play, you know. [speaker001:] I'm kind of racist, I guess, when I say, I like to see the white guys do well, you know [LAUGHTER]. Instead of the run and gun all the time. *should be two slash units. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well again, I'd just like to see the true athlete, the true student athlete, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] play basketball, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I don't like to see the ones that aren't, have no intention of going to class, uh. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Then, again just picking a school, Texas is [speaker001:] In fac-, [speaker002:] is usually not the best team, you know, because the other teams are, I'm sure practice a lot more, and S M U down here in footballs and trying to get back, uh, to having true student athletes, and, and that's what I think is a lot of fun. [speaker001:] There's just so much pressure on the schools, I think to win, though, you know. [speaker002:] To win and money, yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah. And, you know, it's like if they don't win, they don't get any money, so, and the school suffers, which is kind of bad, but that's just how it always is. [speaker002:] Yeah, I always thought that col-, university was for an education and then sports of course is part of the education. I don't think that sports has to make a lot of money, or you do away with it. I don't know why the don't keep fencing and all that, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, and they seem to be, there's articles in the TIME magazine and all about whether it be basketball or anything else. If it's not making money, then we'll do away with it. Well, that's not, I thought it was so that you give them an education of that particular discipline. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And I, I, I just think that amateur sports should stay in universities, that's where it's at. I'm sure saddened to see, I think it was Wisconsin or somewhere, they were getting rid of fencing and a couple of other things. I don't know what it was. [speaker001:] Really. [speaker002:] It just seems so sad to have to only rely on, you know, college football. Is that all they're going to have to make money, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But I didn't think that was the objective, to make money. But it seems like it is. [speaker001:] Huh. It really is. I know there's a lot of pressure on schools to have a winning program. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] To get the best athletes so they can [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] keep their seats full. [speaker002:] You went to Indiana University? [speaker001:] Uh, Purdue. [speaker002:] Oh Purdue, okay. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Well, good. [speaker001:] So. [speaker002:] You're, you're a T I -er up in Sherman? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Oh, very good. [speaker001:] Are you from Dallas area? [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, I'm in the facilities there, down here in Dallas. [speaker001:] Yeah, I guess football is the big sport down here, isn't it. [speaker002:] Uh, certainly high school football, and college football, but again high school football is just so much fun to watch, because, uh, you know, not everybody plays of course, but they're still, it's good and it's still, you know the kids, and there's [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] absolutely no money involved whatsoever, and you know they're going to class, you know. [speaker001:] You heard of, [speaker002:] It, it's, it's real amateur sports. [speaker001:] Have you heard of Damon Bailey. [speaker002:] Huh-uh. [speaker001:] The I U white guard that plays. [speaker002:] Huh-uh. [speaker001:] Well, last year, when he was in high school, they drew a crowd of like forty-one thousand for the state finals, when he played. [speaker002:] Is that right? Forty-, I never heard, that's, uh, I never been in a bask-, football game in high school that had that many. [speaker001:] Yeah, so that's, I mean, that's pretty big. Like he's from Indiana, and he plays for Indiana now. And, Indiana him to be a lot bigger than pro basketball up there. The Pacers don't really draw that big of a crowd [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] You know, the high school games, I mean, that seems to be the big attraction, and college. [speaker002:] Well, my office mate here, Earl, he, he goes to all the Maverick games and he loves that. He, he would be, this is a great question for him, uh, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] to talk about basket-. Like he's got, I'm looking at his calendar, he's got all over the place, and he goes to a lot of the Maverick games and everything. But, I, I, I can't get interested at all, zero. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I, I listen to him, and occasionally I'll watch them on channel eleven, but gee, I can't, uh, more than five minutes of a basketball game, just seems about, that's it, of, uh, pro anyway. [speaker001:] Yeah, seems like you could set the score at a hundred [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and then give them five minutes to play, then it'd be the same result. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Because they, they start, they shoot so much, and then the last, what, five minutes they decide who's going to be the winner, I guess. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah, I'm surprised a little bit when you're talking about basketball how some players work. Mavericks had, oh two players this year that they got rid of last year. I'll think of them in a minute. Perkins, Sam Perkins, can't think of the other one. They're both. [speaker001:] Tarpley, is he one? [speaker002:] Pardon me? [speaker001:] Tarpley? [speaker002:] Yeah, Tarpley, and they both left this past year, and both of them were on playoff teams, uh, so, they benefitted tremendously by leaving the Mavericks. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And Sam Perkins, here, he's one guy I did follow from, think he was in Virginia, I can't think of what school he went to, but from. I guess he's been here about five, six, seven years in the pros. And he was, he never quite achieved the, you know, the super stardom that he had [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] in, in college, but, uh, basketball, they have a nice, I don't know if you've down to the sports for Reunion Arena. It's,

[speaker001:] okay uh [speaker002:] do you know you know what the topic is [speaker001:] music [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] what type do you like [speaker002:] I like uh pretty much rock popular rock [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] what kind do you like [speaker001:] uh I like rock semi classical soft jazz not heavy rock [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um I can get into soft jazz too [speaker001:] yeah I don't like uh country particularly or rap or um what else [speaker002:] no country turns me off uh the my my girlfriend likes rap I don't like [speaker001:] you're kidding [speaker002:] yeah definitely strange but uh I I never got much I mean every so often there is like a song out that just sounds funny when you listen to it and those are probably the only kind I like but uh rap in general like I don't get into [speaker001:] um-hum so who's your favorite artist right now [speaker002:] um I I actually have a couple of favorite artists I I like guys like you know Billy Joel uh who are singers song writers you know I mean who are [speaker001:] great he's one of my favorites [speaker002:] yeah he's I I love him I I had his greatest hits uh and I had to have it on I have it on tape I have it on CD and I have it on record [speaker001:] what [speaker002:] my tape went bad so I bought a record then my record went bad so I bought a CD [speaker001:] what is your very favorite song that Billy Joel has done [speaker002:] probably Piano Man [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] yeah I uh maybe maybe just because it is like on I think it is the first one on the on the CD [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it's the first one on the tape too and I just listen to it a lot and I just I just love it [speaker001:] my very favorite is still rock and roll to me [speaker002:] hm that is a good one you ever see the video uh by Billy Joel uh it's not it's uh another one about uh he is in a courtroom and he has you something like Keeping the Faith that's the name of the song and in the video he uh he's actually in court [speaker001:] yes I think so [speaker002:] and and uh Christi Brinkley's in it yeah that's another reason I like him he's like married to the girl I love you know [speaker001:] well then he has another video that she's been in uh he's like uh uh I think it is Uptown Girl and that's the first one that I had seen her in she is just so gorgeous [speaker002:] uh-huh right right um-hum I know I know no uh the the Keeping the Faith is great because uh you see you know all these people in the courtroom and they have these girls dancing on the railings on the sides [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] and I just got a kick out of it it was just really funny [speaker001:] well the other one that he came out with and I loved the video for it too uh it was I think on his last CD uh We Didn't Start the Fire [speaker002:] uh um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum yeah he [speaker001:] oh I just love that song [speaker002:] he he just has the ability I mean every so often he'll just come out with uh you know a couple of the songs that are just great yeah [speaker001:] um-hum does he have anything new out do you know [speaker002:] no I haven't heard anything lately um but then again I haven't bought any CDs lately I had a CD player and I just moved from Washington about two years ago and uh when I was in Washington in DC I I gave my CD player to my sister because I was going to buy another one [speaker001:] uh-huh and you never bought another one [speaker002:] and and well I have one now but I just got it it's like two months ago so I I just uh recently have started going back into the CD market [speaker001:] yes did you get one that loads more than one or did you get a single [speaker002:] yeah I got the the five disc carousel [speaker001:] that's what we have and I'll tell you it's a lot nicer because you can you know sometimes I get tired of listening to the same artist over you know for the whole entire length of the CD and it's nice when you can randomly choose them too [speaker002:] oh yeah um-hum um-hum oh yeah yeah I that's what I really like and I bought a little single disc for my car [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and uh that's great I mean I every since I put that thing in my car I haven't heard a tape since [speaker001:] yeah I'd like to have one of those next car I buy I don't know how expensive they are when you are putting them in [speaker002:] um-hum well I just I just got a little portable one and I bought a little they Sony makes a base unit that you can just mount in your car and so the whole package was under two hundred dollars [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum um-hum oh that's great [speaker002:] yeah otherwise I mean if you buy them in a car now it's like five hundred bucks for a whole unit [speaker001:] um-hum ooh that might be a little bit more than my budget [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's that's a little extravagant you know but if you can afford the cars that it can come into you know it's not that bad but [speaker001:] do you go to any concerts or anything [speaker002:] I haven't been to any uh since I've been out of college um and it usually the concerts that have come up lately I have been out of town uh traveling so I just haven't had the chance to go to any [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] you know and I work with a bunch of young people in the office they're always going to concerts but whenever they tell me there's one coming up there's something going on and I can never go so I know I haven't been to any I've been missing out on life [speaker001:] well there is someone that I just discovered like in the last couple of years and have you ever heard of Yanni [speaker002:] um-hum of who [speaker001:] Yanni [speaker002:] uh name the name sounds familiar [speaker001:] he's a composer he's dating Linda Evans right now and he does I first heard when uh I first moved to Dallas about five years ago there was uh a station that played soft rock and light jazz [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker001:] and I did not think I liked jazz at all until I started listening to this station and Yanni is one of these I guess he's kind of new wavish or something [speaker002:] hum I think that's where I saw Yanni was there was something about him dating Linda Evans [speaker001:] that 's probably right exactly but his music is absolutely wonderful and I've kind of gotten into a little bit of this new age or new wave or whatever it may be and uh there's a lot of that that I like a [speaker002:] is it really hum um-hum hum

[speaker002:] well we've talked a little bit about the Plano school system um I I really have been pleased with Plano I have a child who uh my son is learning disabled [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh I thank God every day that I have the resources that we have tapped into [speaker001:] now is he the elementary school [speaker002:] he's in elementary school and he's not severely learning disabled I mean you know he just [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh but he is being helped [speaker002:] he's being helped he he was in resource from second grade till fourth grade in math and they recently released him from resource which I'm I was thrilled I really was I I just [speaker001:] uh-huh oh great [speaker002:] thought that was so neat that they got him over that hump and um he's in the Herman Method of Reading I don't know if you're familiar with that it is something new and basically what they do is they start right from the beginning relearning the sounds of letters [speaker001:] no that's something new to me I'm oh [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] I think I read about that in the paper doctor Haggard is [speaker002:] it's wonderful [speaker001:] is heading that up [speaker002:] yes and it's wonderful he didn't have a problem with reading as a matter of fact he's reading on level the problem was his spelling [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and you know in in watching the way he has struggled it's interesting because I'm convinced I have the same learning disability or had that was ignored and [speaker001:] oh right so you worked you learned how to solve your problems on your own [speaker002:] that's right and and so it's you know it's not an intelligence problem it's just a problem with learning [speaker001:] has has he had this since kindergarten or is this something that maybe learning phonetics and then he just didn't learn the right way [speaker002:] well you know it's funny when um when he was in first grade he had trouble with with spelling and I would say to the teacher [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know it's amazing he will be able to you'll say to him spell cat and you know he'll say C A T and then he would go to write it and he would write C O T [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] and I kept saying to the teacher something is wrong here something is wrong here and the teacher kept saying oh he has a May birthday he's just immature [speaker001:] you're right right right [speaker002:] well second grade it was I will these teachers as far as I'm concerned are absolute saints because in second grade it was about the second week of school I went up there and I I requested a conference [speaker001:] good good that's great for parents to be involved [speaker002:] and because all year long they kept telling me I was crazy well I was and I and I went up there the second week of school and I said you know something is wrong and thank God the leader the head teacher the team leader was a special education major [speaker001:] oh how great [speaker002:] it was it was and [speaker001:] so she she was able to zero in oh [speaker002:] she had picked it up yep she had already picked it up and she said you know we we were going to call you if you hadn't called us we think there's a learning disability and we think he needs to be tested immediately because you know once the first report card comes in they have all these people being tested and she said I think we can get him real fast [speaker001:] huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and sure enough they tested him and you know he qualified for for the help and it's been great and I and I thank God I'm here because I I know I have a sister who has the other extreme she has a a child in Connecticut who is extremely gifted and because of the cutbacks in the economy they have nothing for her [speaker001:] right oh no [speaker002:] and and to me that's the same thing it's it's like having a child who has a learning disability that's being ignored this poor gifted child is being ignored [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh right but that's something that parents I think are able to help the gifted child in the home more than they could help the learning disabled child [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] so because that's something you can do by just enrichment types of things in the home [speaker002:] that's true uh-huh [speaker001:] but learning disability unless you are schooled in the types of things and ways to help a child like that then it makes it real difficult and this is this to me is the benefit I see in public schools is that that uh you do have government money to fund the kinds of programs [speaker002:] uh-huh yes right right [speaker001:] that these students need and I'm not sure that the private schools or parochial schools address that problem they test kids before they take them [speaker002:] exactly and [speaker001:] and if they're a behavior problem they're out that and and uh [speaker002:] they don't take them that's right right [speaker001:] this is kind of a rejection type of thing and and we get it even at our level in in I work a nine ten school [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and we get students that come in that have been kicked out of the uh parochial and public and uh private schools [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh they come in and their attitude is I'm a bad boy and proceed to prove it [speaker002:] really really [speaker001:] so I I really hate that for them I I would rather they not have that attitude but [speaker002:] yeah well when comparing test scores I know recently I was in a discussion and they were comparing test scores between private schools and public schools and that was one of the points that I made is that you're not comparing apples to apples [speaker001:] that's right that's right [speaker002:] you know you can't say um you know I know Steven probably would not be accepted because he has a learning disability and into a private school [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] into a private school and um which is which is too bad but on the other hand I I can't necessarily blame them you know they they are a private school and they can do whatever they want [speaker001:] no that's right they can be selective right [speaker002:] and they can they that's right they have the ability to be selective but you can't say then well public schools are are not as good [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] perhaps they are because they're they're [speaker001:] if you choose the select top group out of the public schools and tested them and then compared them to the private to the private school group then I think you would have a more equitable [speaker002:] you're right [speaker001:] way and I have a problem when they compare the kids in Japan or Germany to the kids here in in in uh honesty honesty the kids in Japan are they have to try out to even get into to which kindergarten they're going to get into [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] and then after uh and if if you only the in fact they've had cases in the past where parents have committed suicide because their child has not gotten into the top kindergarten which means they probably won't get into the top elementary and and high school and if they don't then after when they reach a certain age they just that's the end of their schooling [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and and uh they don't ever really go on it's only their top ones that go on like ours do [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and and uh so that that creates a problem and and you can't compare because they go so many more hours [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] the other thing is that the priority in the family is that child's education and is that child [speaker002:] right well you see that with the foreigners that come here [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] um I I was talking to somebody recently or read somewhere where they where they said that you know these children they they had to be the best and they put off all social life all everything you know well is that good yes the child is very bright [speaker001:] that's right that's right [speaker002:] bright but on the other hand I feel like my children who are kind of middle of the road have are more rounded you know sure sure I think it's real important to have friends I think it's real important to play sports I think it's real important to be part of a team [speaker001:] better coping skills yes right [speaker002:] and so that's why I said their childhood is extremely different from mine we didn't do all that you know we certainly didn't carpool and run the way I do um [speaker001:] right well and you don't you don't see the parents uh encouraging those students to get on athletic teams or drill teams or band [speaker002:] no right right [speaker001:] it's strictly stick to the educational and it's interesting to see them as they get older uh then that is the type of adult they are [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um

[speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] Well, it's not often you get, uh, many women interested in football [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh well [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Do you follow football very much? [speaker001:] I'm sorry, what? [speaker002:] Do you follow football very much? [speaker001:] I don't, no, I haven't recently, um. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well we can talk about something else. Do you have any, uh, you married? [speaker001:] No, I'm not, no. [speaker002:] No, well, I guess kids are out. [speaker001:] What's that? [speaker002:] Kids are out. [speaker001:] Yep [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Are you married? [speaker002:] Yeah, I, I'm married. Got two boys. [speaker001:] Oh, really. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Wow. So do you like football? [speaker002:] Oh, I follow the, uh, the Cowboys but that's about it, uh. [speaker001:] The, the same here [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. [speaker001:] Do you live in Dallas? [speaker002:] Yeah, I, I, I am a pretty big Dallas fan, been for a long time [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] but I haven't been to any games recently. But, uh, I try to catch the game every weekend that I can. [speaker001:] Really? [speaker002:] Yeah. Have you ever been to a Cowboy's game? [speaker001:] I haven't, huh-uh. [speaker002:] Um, it's pretty nice. [speaker001:] We dec-, we decided just to watch them at home [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] But. [speaker002:] That's good. At least you, uh, follow the game a little bit. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Um, yeah, I'm not a fanatic about it. I don't know who played when and who does what like some guys are. I just like to watch, and, and hopefully they win [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] That's about the extent of it. [speaker001:] Yeah. Right now I'm in, um, college, so I'm more into college football than professional, I think. [speaker002:] Oh, I see. What, uh, school are you going to? [speaker001:] Um, I'm at B Y U. [speaker002:] B Y U, okay. [speaker001:] Yeah, so. [speaker002:] Leslie, what are you studying? [speaker001:] Nursing. [speaker002:] Nursing. Great. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] My mom's an L V N. [speaker001:] Oh, really. [speaker002:] Yeah. So, what are you planning to go into? Do you want to be an R N or, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Yeah, yeah. Um, I haven't really picked a field. I haven't, I, I don't know, I've thought a lot about labor and delivery but [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I don't know. [speaker002:] Try that. That's what my mom does, labor and delivery. [speaker001:] Oh, really. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Wow. [speaker002:] Yeah, she loves it. She, she really, uh, enjoys. [speaker001:] Is she a nurse in Dallas? [speaker002:] No, she's a nurse in San Antonio [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] but, uh, she's been, she's been working a, uh, on a late shift. She works the, uh, I guess the graveyard's what you'd call it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] She works the graveyard shift. And she's worked that for, oh, years, when I was small. [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] Uh, I guess probably going on twenty years now. [speaker001:] Wow. [speaker002:] And she really enjoys it. She likes the quiet that you have at that time of the night and, uh, and, uh, she's, uh, she just started a new job at a different hospital, closer to where she lives [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and she's really enjoying herself. She really likes it. [speaker001:] Well, that's great. [speaker002:] Well, good luck to you in pursuing your nursing degree. [speaker001:] Oh thanks [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Hope you'll like it. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Do you plan on staying in, in the Dallas area? [speaker001:] Um, I'd like to come back to Dallas. Right now I'm in Utah, of course. [speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So, um, but, my family's there, so, yeah, I'd like to go back. [speaker002:] Yeah, uh, I think Texas, San Antonio in particular, has got a large, uh, base of hospitals. Uh, I don't know about Dallas. I think Dallas is pretty scattered. [speaker001:] Are you in San Antonio? [speaker002:] No, I'm, I'm in Dallas [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] but I'm originally from San Antonio [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] and they've got large medical, uh, center down there. They've got the U T Health Science Center out there also. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] So if ever wanted, you know, pursue anything more than your nursing degree, that, that'd be the place to do it. [speaker001:] Yeah, my brother-in-law, um, is in the medical profession, I mean, he's at medical scho-, school in San Antonio right now. [speaker002:] Oh, great. [speaker001:] So. [speaker002:] Great. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Well, like I said, good luck to you. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Thanks. [speaker002:] All right, well, um, take care, and maybe we'll meet up again some time. [speaker001:] All right. [speaker002:] Okay. Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Where is your favorite place to go? [speaker002:] Well, we haven't traveled outside the United States that much. Uh, we usually take family type vacations. We're looking forward to one in October to Disneyworld in Florida. [speaker001:] Oh, that's great. [speaker002:] We have a nine year old. [speaker001:] Have you ever been there? [speaker002:] When, when both of my kids were much younger. And this time we're going to be going with just one daughter and she's nine, so it ought to just be a ball. [speaker001:] Oh, that's a perfect age [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] for Disneyworld. [speaker002:] I think so, too. [speaker001:] Oh, that's great. Yeah, so we've been there a number of times and, uh, we're going next year. We have a business trip every fall. Well, we go on a lot of business trips. I, [speaker002:] Oh, wonderful. [speaker001:] I don't work. [speaker002:] So you travel a lot. [speaker001:] Well, we do. We g-, my husband travels a couple times a month and in the position he's in, they don't care if I go along. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So it's great. I just kind of join up when it's something interesting and [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] uh, Disneyworld is the one for a week next year [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and it will be at this time of the year and this year we're leaving, uh, uh, matter of fact we're leaving next Saturday for New Orleans. [speaker002:] Oh, that will be fun, too. [speaker001:] Have, have you ever been there? [speaker002:] Yes. We went years ago. We haven't been lately and I know they've changed it a lot and upgraded everything, but we used to have a lot of fun there. [speaker001:] Well, you know, we went there once. In fact, we had been in Dallas and we were on our way home and we were driving and we said let's go to New Orleans. So when he said, well, this year, you know, I have a week there on a, a project he's going to be, and then I said, well, I'll going along, I hope it's swimming season [LAUGHTER] because it wasn't a tremendous thing, amount of things to do. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That I wanted to do there. [speaker002:] Yeah, if you don't like the night life and the antique shopping, there isn't much there, but, that can be fun. [speaker001:] It, well, and that's probably, we do like the night life, to an extent and they do have a Mardi Gras night planned. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And I'm kind of anxious for that, but, uh, yours to Disneyworld sounds [LAUGHTER] a little bit better. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Did you know that next week there's several T V shows coming from there in celebration of their anniversary. [speaker002:] No, I know this is a real good time to go, because they are having so many activities and special shows. [speaker001:] Well, and with a daughter, nine, it is just, she's old enough to really grasp [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] the meaning behind, [speaker002:] Be excited about all of it. [speaker001:] Uh, so, well, if you're working, then you're probably on a limited amount of time per year that you can go. [speaker002:] Well, not really, we're doing the same thing. Tying it in with my husband's business trip and I just save vacation for things like that. [speaker001:] Oh, that's, [speaker002:] And, uh, just travel whenever we can. [speaker001:] Well, I really, I think travel [static], when I heard my topic today, I thought, okay [speaker002:] How easy [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] that's my fav-, that's my favorite [LAUGHTER] becau-, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And really at our point of life our children are grown and, uh, it has just [static] worked out really well with this, uh, position he's in. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Because I can go at a spur of the moment or what have you and it depends where he's going [static] whether or not I decide to go along [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] but I do, do like to travel and it's, uh, [static] I don't mind the pool life at all [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] during the day. And I like to sight see and I love to shop. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So it's [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] So that's perfect. What more could you ask for? [speaker001:] That's right, but it, [speaker002:] And then got to pick and choose the places. [speaker001:] Well, and one of my very favorite [static] is Las Vegas. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Uh, that I would have to say we both end up going to Las Vegas, uh, probably once every maybe year and a half. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And presently we have quite a few frequent flyer miles [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and so I've just requested that they send us two of our coach tickets because we have a lot of flying with Continental [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and they're recommending that you use those because they don't know the future of Continental. [speaker002:] Right, it's kind of shaky. [speaker001:] And I said now that we have all the miles, we better [LAUGHTER] start using them. [speaker002:] That's true. [speaker001:] Uh, [speaker002:] It really is. [speaker001:] So we are thinking that we might go to Las Vegas during the winter this year sometime for just kind of a quick trip. Uh, when we normally go that way, we like to go to California at the same time, because we really don't get out there as often as you could probably [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] from Texas. [speaker002:] Our last big trip, we drove through New Mexico and Colorado and went to the Grand Canyon and, and, uh, back through Silverton and Durango and, oh, it was fun. It was so relaxing and a really neat part of the country and the kids were old enough to really enjoy it. Our, [speaker001:] I think that's a good trip. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And really, for the children to learn as well for a family vacation that would be excellent. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Now we did, what we sometimes do since we are in Ohio and it takes a while just to even get to the, what I would call the more picturesque part of the country, we will fly to something like, once we flew to Colorado to Denver and then we rented a car for two weeks and we went through the northern route and through Utah [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and as far west as Las Vegas and then we returned through, uh, New Mexico that you just mentioned. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And it was [speaker002:] Oh, there's [speaker001:] oh, it was just great. [speaker002:] too much to see really. [speaker001:] Oh, I, I think that's, that's [static] the way to,

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] guess we can go ahead um well I guess you know it's you know since living in Dallas it's always so hot so in the summertime I just I wear lots of shorts so because I don't work during the day [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so do you work [speaker001:] yes uh-huh yeah I do work um [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and but I work at a manufacturing plant so I wear a lot of blue jeans and T-shirts [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] but occasionally I have to get dressed up and wear panty hose and a dress and high heel shoes and I feel really uncomfortable doing that and in the plant so uh it's it's a problem for me [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] but normally I just wear blue jeans and a T-shirt very very comfortable I like that so much better than having to wear dress clothes [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah and buying suits and stuff yeah because just being at home and I work at home so [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I just have you know I just wear my you know my shorts and stuff like that I don't go out and spend lots of money on uh different you know suits and stuff you know [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] but when I before I got married you know I was working so I uh you know I had more suits and stuff then but [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] worry about all that kind of stuff [speaker001:] well I have plenty of suits and dress clothes because I'm like you when I first started working um [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I have all these suits and blouses and skirts and mix and match and that kind of stuff [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but now that I you know work in the manufacturing plant then it's just it's so much more difficult for me to to actually get dressed up to come in to work like that [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] um but occasionally I have to because uh part of my job is teaching and training and uh so you have to look just a little bit nicer than your normal grab [speaker002:] uh-huh when you're training right yeah [speaker001:] than your normal garb but I'm like you too uh I moved from Ohio down to here [speaker002:] uh-huh moved somewhere I mean [speaker001:] and I had mostly polyesters and wools and winter clothes and buying all these cotton clothes and then of course you have to iron them all the time that's really that's been a problem for me [speaker002:] winter uh-huh uh-huh yeah because I came from Wyoming and I had wool suits and wool skirts and you know I've got all these clothes that I never wear because you can't wear them here and um [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] the seasons are just so much different you have so much summer [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh so then when I you know I finally get a chance to go out with my husband it's like a real chore to find something nice to wear [speaker001:] that's true that's true [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] well I know I was just now um uh putting away a lot of my winter clothes [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I was going through here and I was thinking I haven't worn this in three years [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and because it's a wool skirt and there's just not that many opportunities to wear it and I have five or six wool skirts [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] so I was thinking well maybe you know I need to think about getting rid of them but no I folded it up neatly and put it away maybe next year [speaker002:] yeah you hate to get rid of it because you know how much you spent on them [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and it's real hard to get rid of some of that stuff I know [speaker001:] I know I agree with you [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] well I know last year uh well this past winter it wasn't that cold [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but the previous winter we had more uh cold weather where I was able to actually wear your double and triple layerings of uh clothes yeah like you would when you're up north so [speaker002:] uh-huh clothes yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] that's really interesting [speaker002:] yeah yeah and I I just don't spend you know right now my clothes come from Target you know [speaker001:] yes yes yes and they're all one hundred percent cotton and [speaker002:] yes and they you take them out of the drier and they're wadded up in a ball [speaker001:] yes yes I know so I uh I have my ironing board sitting out all the time I never put mine away [speaker002:] oh I'm so glad to meet somebody that that their iron board is their permanent fixture in their house [speaker001:] it is it is [speaker002:] you know I have very little furniture but my ironing board is part of my decor so [speaker001:] that's true and and I've been looking at these um uh like in Home Depot where you can go and they've got that ironing boards that will just flip right down off of the um uh what the the the door and uh and then you can have actually have one where you can put it inside of a wall you know to have it permanently attached and that's what I'm thinking I'm going to have to do because mine's sitting right out in front of my bedroom and it's just [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] it's just an eyesore I think with all the [speaker002:] well yeah it is it is but it's like uh I just don't want to do it [speaker001:] hum-um hum-um no I've been thinking about putting the ironing board in the closet [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] and and running you know a line in there for my iron so I could do it in there and I wouldn't have to have that eyesore [speaker002:] yeah that's an idea oh yeah [speaker001:] yeah so I have a big closet [speaker002:] yeah I you know if I have if I know I'm having somebody come over to the house and there's a possibility they might be going back into my room I will put it away but [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] I iron our clothes as we go along so you know [speaker001:] um-hum I no longer do that weekly thing because I have so many and I'm like you I the night before or that day I will iron whatever it is that we need and that's it because it's too many hundred percent cotton [speaker002:] right no uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh you can't iron it all and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] yeah and then with my kids they're always getting into you know they can't decide what they want to wear so they change their minds you know I know I mean my oldest is only four but she's [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] changes her mind two or three times before she figures out what she's going to wear so [speaker001:] right right oh I know I know [speaker002:] and then they never put anything back [speaker001:] no no of course not no that uh that would be too simple [speaker002:] so uh-huh yeah that that that's called smart you know they don't we don't do that kind of stuff you know [speaker001:] absolutely not [speaker002:] that's called too easy on mom [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] our lot in life is to make her life miserable so [speaker001:] uh-huh absolutely absolutely [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] yeah well that's it's been good talking to you to see somebody hear somebody that does the same thing I do because I tell people what I do and they just go oh how do you do that it's like it's easy you just do it you know [speaker001:] that's right that's right you do you do so uh but yeah I uh I know several of my girlfriends though we uh we all keep our ironing boards out and just uh an ever present thing in our household so [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah I don't think I'd know what to do if it wasn't there you know my husband wouldn't know where to hang his dirty clothes [speaker001:] you know there you go things that need to be mended things that have to get ironed um-hum um-hum um-hum that's true [speaker002:] yeah he wouldn't know where to put things so yeah so [speaker001:] oh well it was nice talking with you [speaker002:] oh it was nice talking with you too [speaker001:] okay take care uh-huh bye-bye [speaker002:] take care bye-bye

[speaker001:] so Utah [speaker002:] yes that that's that's the state that got was famous when they executed somebody Gary Gilmore by firing squad as I recall [speaker001:] Gary Gilmore yeah that's right and we still have a death penalty [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] some a gentleman uh that was one of the hi-fi murderers just had his conviction overturned well appealed again I guess we have the longest uh running inmates for death row too [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and then we had another guy uh Ronald Lafferty that thought God told him to kill his sister-in-law [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] he just got a a new trial because the judge felt that he was incompetent [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh how do you feel about the death penalty [speaker002:] well I you you know until recently I've been sort of could go either way you know it it sort of doesn't much you know didn't it wasn't a strong issue um I guess it still isn't a strong issue but I must say I find it very silly the way politicians are running around creating more and more capital crimes um instead of dealing with real you know the real problems they're you know they're they're they're getting votes presumably by [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] um I assume they're doing it for that reason [speaker001:] well I'm sure sure that's their [speaker002:] by by by saying well this doing this this particular crime in this particular way is a capital crime now [speaker001:] well I kind of agree agree with terrorism I think those guys should be done away with that's one of the worst crimes in my book and uh drug dealing hm that's close but uh terrorism definitely and uh selling out your country [speaker002:] um-hum it it's not it's not enough just to lock them up forever [speaker001:] uh no it's got to be something that is gonna cost them because we never lock anybody up forever [speaker002:] um not often [speaker001:] not very often at all we've got these guys in New York that uh I'm sure you heard about the ones that killed ah the gentleman that came from Utah to watch the tennis people [speaker002:] yep yep [speaker001:] and I guess they got convicted the four of [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh uh murder [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so you've come to a definite opinion on it now [speaker002:] well I I've uh it it it it seems like it's gone gotten carried away um and I I do find it hard to draw know where to draw a line and so if I had to draw a line I'd say just no capital punishment I mean I don't I don't see I don't see that it accomplishes a whole lot whereas I do think that convicting people and and incarcerating them for a long time if that could be improved upon that would have more impact I think [speaker001:] yeah you kind of hate to [speaker002:] no what what about the argument where where somebody who is committing one capital crime chooses to commit a a more serious capital crime I mean murder um because that one at least you might escape from because his victim you know his witnesses will be gone doesn't this doesn't this encourage [speaker001:] you mean uh violence [speaker002:] uh more serious doesn't doesn't this encourage you know I mean doesn't this encourage murder in order to wipe out the [speaker001:] the witnesses [speaker002:] the witnesses [speaker001:] well maybe it would uh I kind of have a problem with our legal system at the moment uh as it is I think that people who uh infringe on other people's rights uh and screw up their whole lives with rape uh child molesting uh terrorism just a there's just like five things that I think they ought to be snuffed for but I'm I'm for it for certain reasons [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] and I think that things like rape uh you can't get over uh takes a lifetime [speaker002:] I see so so if if William Kennedy Smith had been found guilty you believe he should have been uh executed [speaker001:] um if it was [speaker002:] a six person jury could've decided either way of course [speaker001:] yeah if it was it'd probably have to be a pattern you know we have plenty of convicted guys that go into jail and come back out do the same thing and go back and uh if they're habitual like three times caught for rape or child molesting then snuff them [speaker002:] um-hum well but there the problems that they just been let out of jail [speaker001:] good pardon [speaker002:] the problem there is that they've been let out jail if they've been thrice convicted they should have been kept in longer [speaker001:] yeah but we don't seem to keep them long enough and then they learn such bad things in jail that isn't a place of rehabilitation [speaker002:] yeah well yeah that's that's for sure [speaker001:] yeah it's a tough question isn't it on whether at what point do they become so detrimental to society that society can't afford to keep them around to keep giving them chances [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] hm let's see so the other questions that they wanted was whether the place that we live in uh compares to how we feel what's the laws there in DC [speaker002:] I actually don't

[speaker001:] okay um what do you think [speaker002:] well it depends on whether I have to buy my next car before or after my children are out of the house [speaker001:] well that makes a big difference doesn't it [speaker002:] we've we've gone from small cars and sports cars to station wagons and a van a mini van [speaker001:] it's kind of like well if right a little more domestic there [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah I I guess the biggest factor for me lately is American versus non American and while I'd really like to buy American I don't know it just it really depends on reliability for me [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh I have a Ford right now and it's been a pretty good truck but some of the things are not that good about it and Ford sales have been really bad in terms of customer uh customer service at least for me so it's I don't know it's it's kind of disappointing [speaker002:] well well when we I guess this is talking about previous cars opposed to to next car but when we went to look for a mini van I wanted to get you know I thought it'd be nice to buy American and I went and looked at all the American ones [speaker001:] but yeah [speaker002:] and the doors didn't close right and the I mean and this is on the lot and you're thinking to yourself if it's not right now what is it gonna be like after I've had it for six months [speaker001:] yeah right [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] well one of the good I guess one of the good things that I have to work on is my my father he's a pharmaceutical rep and he he gets a new car about once every three years [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] and he's been driving a lot of mini vans in the last like five or ten years [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh he generally goes with I think the Astro Van [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um it's the only one that has a standard six cylinder which is real important to him but I don't know I guess I guess for my next car I'd probably have to probably have to scale down to an actual car instead of a pick up starting to get into that I'm a college student right now I'm a doctoral student [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh I anticipate getting a full time job soon so you know probably one of those things where I really don't need the the hauling capacity much I'll be a little more stable but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] well I guess I don't know I'm I I think I'll probably buy American but I'm just not real sure you know [speaker002:] you have to go out of here go talk to dad yeah well um I know I've I've always looked for mileage [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh you know cause I figure the the better miles it gets the better but the less pollutants it's putting out cause the better job it's doing burning stuff up [speaker001:] sure and I yeah [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] and that opens up a whole another can of worms I guess Ford is suppose to start out with they're gonna actually put out a line of electric cars next year in California [speaker002:] yeah doesn't that sound neat if you were gonna if you if you could afford two cars and you were going to do a lot of city driving [speaker001:] you know yeah um-hum oh that'd be a definite yeah that'd be the way to go for sure I think there's no questions in in in terms of whether I would have that or not I [speaker002:] go away from here [speaker001:] sounds like your kids want to get on the conversation [speaker002:] just a minute David remove Jeffrey from my presence I'm on the telephone [speaker001:] I bet they'd have something to say about buying cars huh [speaker002:] well my my kids oh my kids think it's great we've unfortunately our convertibles have been retired for lack lack of time on our part to um to work on them but we have a Fiat an old Fiat and an old MGB [speaker001:] yeah oh really [speaker002:] sitting in behind our house and the kids are convinced the older two kids are convinced that that's going to be their cars Jeffrey hasn't figured out yet just you know it's like who want oh Jeffrey's only three you know and the but the other ones aren't very old either [speaker001:] how old are they oh I see uh-huh [speaker002:] so it's like who's going to inherit you know Jeffrey's like well you know station wagon a mini van you know you got to go get another old convertible my husband well my husband would love to buy next is a Miata [speaker001:] right yeah oh yeah [speaker002:] you know is the Mazda Miata [speaker001:] yeah I've heard some good things about that car actually [speaker002:] it's suppposed to be [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] really solid car we have a a Mazda right now [speaker001:] yeah a big factor for me is is ergonomics and and in terms of control and display design that's that's what I'm going into for my degree [speaker002:] yeah oh neat [speaker001:] and so that's that's something I really try to consider a little more heavily heavily than most people probably do but [speaker002:] well it they have something that you know I there's some things I like better about my Subaru and some things I like better about the Mazda and uh you know and I'm always looking at that kind of thing at other people's cars and [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] yeah it it [speaker001:] it's amazing how much spot light it's gotten lately you know it seems like everyone that's a big concern now you know it's [speaker002:] well it's not just you know but like I have one car that tells me which door is open and the other one only tells me that a door is open [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] so when it only tells me that a door is open I have to get out of the car and go around slamming doors until I mean that's a nuisance that's a real pain [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah um and one of them only has the standard full to empty gauge and the other

[speaker001:] my name is Diane [speaker002:] I'm Cliff Penn [speaker001:] hi well what's your favorite team I like the Chicago Bears [speaker002:] well I uh don't have uh much much of a favorite team since the Cowboys haven't done much so I guess I'll just have to say the Cowboys [speaker001:] the Cowboys well they haven't done much for they never did much even when Landry and Staubach were playing I'm being real sarcastic did you like them back then [speaker002:] um oh yeah in fact most of the world liked them back then whether you did or not [speaker001:] touch yes well when I moved here in the uh mid seventies um are you in Dallas yes so am I uh I just use to laugh because back then I was a Steelers fan I'm from originally from Pittsburgh [speaker002:] yes um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and that was not the thing to be in Dallas when they their preseason games at the stadium you know where the Cowboys versus what do you think they're going to do this year [speaker002:] yeah oh they may be a little better but uh they got a long way to go [speaker001:] uh-huh in [speaker002:] after Landry got the shaft [speaker001:] he sure did that I agree with you on yeah what do you think of uh the guy who's coaching them now from Miami I can't remember his name off the top of my head I can picture his gray hair but [speaker002:] well they all start with J so yeah he's Johnson right [speaker001:] yeah yeah that's right [speaker002:] well he's he's learned a little bit but the first year he was here he was playing college football and it was pretty simple stuff [speaker001:] uh-huh are you a football fan uh by nature or is this something you grew into [speaker002:] yeah I I in Texas uh football's the game instead of baseball [speaker001:] that's true I agree with you there though at least it has a little more action than baseball [speaker002:] yep um-hum yep [speaker001:] well I don't know why I like the Bears but I do I just think they have some good players but [speaker002:] well they've had some very good players and fact uh the best tight end in football is now their coach [speaker001:] um-hum eighty nine yeah Mister Ditka well you can't say too much bad about him I mean he did learn his hone his trade under Landry [speaker002:] well actually he was uh as as a coach he learned his trade under Landry but as uh as a player I remember seeing him as a young man [speaker001:] that's what I meant [speaker002:] fighting everybody off while he caught a pass on a tight end [speaker001:] yeah the University of Pittsburgh well I was probably a little bit too young for that but um I know we just laugh now in terms of not specific teams but um we have company and one of the men got bored earlier this afternoon and he turned on the television and one of the ladies said what's you know what's the football game and I wasn't even aware I mean I knew it but I just I guess I kind of shut it out like most females yeah something [speaker002:] right yeah the the World Football League is playing uh Frank uh playing in Germany I think I've forgotten where they are Germany and somebody that [speaker001:] oh funny San Antonio and San Antonio has a team or something [speaker002:] yeah Landry is down there over San Antonio now yeah [speaker001:] oh you're kidding oh goodness are you that avid a fan that you would watch it regular uh year round [speaker002:] no no I uh actually I haven't uh watched it as much since uh the Cowboys' demise as I used to I used to watch it every weekend but irregardless of who was playing whether it was Cowboys or not [speaker001:] uh-huh yes it it seemed like it's up to about ten to twelve years ago I mean all the sports including football it used to seem uh before the higher ticket prices in terms of just not for fans but I mean what what the salaries some of the players were getting [speaker002:] yeah yeah now that it's uh well I think a lot went out of it when they had the strike too [speaker001:] yeah I mean I um I mean like I was just reading something in today's paper about Herschel Walker and I had to chuckle you know I mean you wonder what he really is I mean I really don't care but what happens to a player when they're sitting in their cars and they fall asleep because um they're so tired and the carbon they're overcome by carbon monoxide fumes [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's hard to believe all right [speaker001:] you know um but I think it's still healthy I mean I have a nephew that plays football and if that's what he wanted to do I certainly wouldn't tell his parents to encourage it but I think it's still an honorable sport [speaker002:] yeah who do you think uh Chicago will have quarterbacking now [speaker001:] I have no idea who is he who um the guy the young guy from uh Ohio State I think he's already over the hill isn't he oh I can't remember [speaker002:] hum it seems like it [speaker001:] I can't even remember his my mind went blank today it must be the heat um I don't know I just uh I actually like you know I was probably was like you were when the when Payton was big you know this is probably about five years after when everything was the America team but um I actually once Payton left I kind of just lost you know [speaker002:] yeah he was a superstar all right [speaker001:] yeah I kind of just lost um and I don't think Ditka's going to stay around much longer I don't know if he renewed a two year or not I think he's either in the middle of that or just did that [speaker002:] yeah it seems seems like the spice has gone out of it for him [speaker001:] yeah it's kind of you know I mean uh it's it's kind of like when the Cowboys the Bears and the Steelers went you know like I said about ten twelve years ago it seemed like football was really interesting the and it didn't matter who was playing it just it was worth watching [speaker002:] yeah there yeah there were several really good teams in that time frame yeah [speaker001:] yeah and it was competitive and it seemed a little cleaner I don't know um [speaker002:] yeah I think it probably was the uh now then there's a lot of dirty stuff going on on the line that the that the referees don't call things get out of hand [speaker001:] yeah and there's some technical stuff you know this Minicam stuff these instant replay things that uh I'm not sure that I would agree with some of it but I still think it's a good sport [speaker002:] yeah well actually I think if they'd a had that technical replay technical uh bit where they replayed it at Dallas would've won two Super Bowls that they didn't win because of bad calls hum yeah [speaker001:] um-hum some of those calls well I have to agree with you because I can remember um when they played the Dolphins and I saw Ditka take the touchdown and I remember there were one or two calls in that game I think it was in seventy was that seventy three or seventy two I can't I can't even go back that far anymore [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah there was one that uh supposedly uh uh fumble after a touchdown and uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the Cowboys theoretically lost it but uh they didn't really in fact the guy uh who had recovered who was supposed to have recovered it later admitted that he had uh [speaker001:] um-hum so now I know [speaker002:] after it had already crossed the the goal line in the other guy's hand he jerked it out of his hand so it was he admitted that he had done that after the fact but you could see it on camera when it happened but the officials couldn't see it [speaker001:] yeah usually usually when that happens and I mean it always seems to go the way of the ref's call though it never seems to go the way of you know either the coach or somebody protesting um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but that's really I guess what I know about football [speaker002:] the where do you work where do you work [speaker001:] pardon me right now I'm not I'm a homemaker yeah yeah true [speaker002:] you're a homemaker well that's work enough my my wife says that is plenty work enough [speaker001:] domestic engineering domestic engineering there you go yeah it's um [speaker002:] pardon domestic engineering right right [speaker001:] I don't know I just really had to laugh today I mean the what the subject was when I placed this call when the subject was football because uh we had just had that on that that was uh you know wear year round and I said oh they've got to be kidding I just don't think financially they'll make a go of it and then my husband said to me well it was somebody from the Vikings uh Mike Lynn or somebody who um was one of the promoters of that [speaker002:] yeah right [speaker001:] I said uh you know wouldn't they be defeating their purpose to go away from the NFL [speaker002:] yeah I think they would [speaker001:] but nobody seemed to uh you know nobody just thought that it so the motive was just another way to make a profit [speaker002:] yeah the Vikings to me will always be Fran Tarkenton though [speaker001:] yeah actually you know I mean that's just um that's the era I'm talking about I mean I remember when uh Gale Sayers played I I mean I can remember that's kind of when it seems like it was [speaker002:] yeah yeah any team could beat any other team in that time frame and that's what made it so good yeah yeah [speaker001:] right any probability could happen I mean now it's just it's and usually it's one team that's great over the entire season and then it's kind of flat watching some of it I mean it's um [speaker002:] yeah and it's whoever has got the most money that gets the players and so forth [speaker001:] right exactly I mean I can remember when drafts and Heisman I mean I could remember I mean I just I mean I used to think Dorsett was good now I look at him and I think well why did I ever think that [speaker002:] well he was good in his younger days he really yeah he really was [speaker001:] in his younger yeah and Walker now I mean I don't know if he's dried up or not the way they're talking that uh [speaker002:] well he's he's getting old enough to be uh his legs wearing out but the last time I saw him play when he was healthy he looked mighty good [speaker001:] did he and who's going to quarterback the Cowboys this year I don't even is it still the blonde headed guy Aikman it what do you think of him [speaker002:] it'll be it'll be Aikman yeah oh Aikman himself if he had some talent around I think they'd be a super team but he can't do it by himself he's got to have a line in front of him that knows how to block [speaker001:] uh-huh so you think it's the defensive element that's really lacking in the Cowboys [speaker002:] yeah well no I think it's mainly the offense the defense is better than the offense really the the the uh offensive line is is [speaker001:] uh-huh in terms of running yeah [speaker002:] just hasn't been able to keep down the pass rush at all so that Aikman's had time to get rid of the ball and he's been and the main reason he's been hurt on occasion it's like most of them the offensive line didn't do it's job he got blindsided or something so [speaker001:] protecting him yeah didn't he just go through through some rough elbow surgery or something about five months ago [speaker002:] yeah yeah they found a whole bunch of chips in there that they though though they had one chip and they uh [speaker001:] ooh uh-huh [speaker002:] they uh got I've forgotten my son keeps up with this more than I in fact he should be on this network he's the one that knows all about sports yeah [speaker001:] sure probably my husband should be too I just you know you just go through and you check those subjects and you go well there's not too much well listen I won't keep you on a nice Sunday afternoon [speaker002:] right well I appreciate the call [speaker001:] okay no problem and you have a good day okay bye-bye [speaker002:] same to you bye-bye

[speaker002:] all right uh yeah not as much as I used to be I I grew up in Pittsburgh and [speaker001:] you say you a Steeler fan so did I no kidding [speaker002:] did you yeah I left there I went to school out that way that about forty miles east of Pittsburgh and then uh I left in the mid sixties and right after I left well a few years later they started having some good teams [speaker001:] yeah Chuck Knoll as a matter of fact uh did the coin flip in uh yesterday's Super Bowl [speaker002:] yeah yeah he's looking good he's sixty I think and he just you know [speaker001:] he looks real good he certainly had a an unfortunate uh end to a brilliant career [speaker002:] yeah for considering yeah they just uh I don't know what happened they just weren't getting any draft picks and weren't I guess they just weren't picking the right guy weren't right people [speaker001:] well that's what I think I think the the the sad thing about the Steelers is that they stuck with the crew a little too long and I think that's the the biggest problem for dynasties is that you just really have to cycle people [speaker002:] um-hum right um-hum [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] yeah they uh he was loyal to a lot of those guys that helped uh helped him win those Super Bowls in the seventies and uh stuck with him too long and then I think the the draft uh picks did fall on hard times and they just never were able to get back to where they were [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but uh uh we've lived here in Dallas for about nineteen years and I've never become a Cowboys fan in fact I don't I just don't like them at all but [speaker001:] no yeah [speaker002:] I [speaker001:] how about Houston uh Oilers any more appealing to you [speaker002:] oh I like them better than the Cowboys I don't I just uh other than the Steelers I don't have a real a real favorite uh like the Eagles I like the Redskins but uh usually like the teams that the Cowboys are playing for the most part you're a Forty Niner fan [speaker001:] yeah well I had you know I was a Steeler fan and a Forty Niner fan um they've certainly built themselves a you know a great team as a matter of fact if they hadn't lost so many games early in the season I think they might have been a contender might have given Washington a game [speaker002:] um-hum hum yeah yeah they had [speaker001:] but uh they lost uh so many games early that they that their comeback made little difference at the end [speaker002:] yeah they weren't the same without Montana [speaker001:] well Montana made a difference but as the analysts analysts have said over and over again the game is won and lost at the line of scrimmage a smart quarterback makes a big difference and I really think for example yesterday Buffalo might very well have been in it until the end had Kelley been uh a smarter quarterback I I frankly am surprised that [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um Marv Levy would allow him to call all those plays [speaker002:] oh was he calling the plays I didn't even [speaker001:] yeah and I think that's just too tough in a on a uh uh you know a guy I mean you got to be real real savvy to do that and I don't see Kelley as being that savvy I don't I think that's one of the weaknesses in the Buffalo offense myself [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah yeah he had a [speaker001:] because they certainly have a heck of a defense although it was picked apart a little bit I mean Washington just looked phenomenal [speaker002:] um-hum right yeah well couple of those passes a couple of those receivers for Buffalo dropped some important uh passes too they it would have made might have made a little bit of a difference not much but uh [speaker001:] and uh yeah yeah [speaker002:] I don't I I just looked in the paper this this evening and trying to figure out when the last time the AFC won a game guess it was eighty four Raiders [speaker001:] it it's it's nine years ago [speaker002:] Raiders beat uh the Redskins I think as a matter of fact but boy it's [speaker001:] yeah it's been been a while [speaker002:] I was thinking maybe they uh ought to just AFC ought to just give it up and uh when uh it comes time for the Super Bowl the NFC champ plays an all star team of the AFC teams that might be a little more interesting because I'm getting a little tired of watching the blowouts in the uh [speaker001:] well it is it is a little disappointing and there's some it it's very interesting to see you know what's what's behind this is it is it the uh I mean you would think theoretically that the draft picks would uh you know random and then free agency also makes a big difference [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh I don't understand it I mean they just uh they they Denver you know went a few times and they didn't do anything uh Cincinnati they didn't do anything now uh Buffalo [speaker002:] yeah um-hum yeah well Buffalo twice well they did get close last year they could have won last Buffalo could have won last year against the Giants but uh just seems like there's a big gap in talent between the or maybe in coaching between the AFC and the NFC because it's like I said it's been nine years or eight years since they uh since AFCs won a game [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but uh I guess they're gonna somebody was saying uh somebody I was watching the game with some people they were saying that instant replay may be on its way out I guess they have enough votes to uh or not enough votes to keep it going [speaker001:] well you know I think that's sad in a way because I think if you look for example there were a couple of calls yesterday that were appallingly bad [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] I mean I just it's it's it's shameful and and I think that that once Pandora's out of the box you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so I don't know I I I I think it can complicate things I recognize that but I sure think it's it's reversed some some calls that were bad calls although yesterday it didn't reverse one that was a very bad call what [speaker002:] yeah well um yeah I just don't like it it it delays the game it delays uh I don't know it it just kind of interrupts interrupts the flow of things and uh I [speaker001:] well there yeah there is that problem and and but uh I guess that that the real the real interesting thing is in the age of television you're going to get so much analysis of it that a that a game really for example yesterday when when Andre Reid [speaker002:] um-hum

[speaker001:] you go ahead and tell me about your last home repair [speaker002:] well let's see my last home repair I put an office in my garage I uh took down one of my uh uh two car garage doors and I uh I made an office out of it and uh the funny thing was um it I I didn't think I needed a permit you know because I wasn't yeah I wasn't changing the the looks of the of the outside [speaker001:] a building permit yeah um-hum [speaker002:] and my neighbor called the uh city on me yeah he turned me in and I I was halfway done with the office [speaker001:] oh he turned you in huh huh [speaker002:] and uh so oh well what they did was I I called I'm a contractor myself and I'm I'm a roof contractor so [speaker001:] did they fine you or what uh okay um-hum [speaker002:] uh I went down and got some permits from some uh roof work that we were doing and I uh I talked to them about my you know my garage and uh so they said well you need to get a permit for this and that and you know electrical and all that kind of stuff so they here's the funny thing they said they uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] they wouldn't give me the permit because they needed a uh pre inspection okay so they came to do the pre inspection and they they didn't pass it because I didn't have a permit on site [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh oh you're kidding so how'd you finally get a permit [speaker002:] oh we're I'm still in my office and they I still don't have one and no huh [speaker001:] you're kidding did you finish it did you finish it [speaker002:] uh yeah yeah [speaker001:] and without a permit yeah that that that is funny [speaker002:] so it's it's quite comical in fact um I'm starting in my I I'm actually not starting my bathroom but I couldn't help but start at my bathrooms I uh taking a shower one day I I uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] put my hand on the on one of the tile walls to support myself and put my hand right through [speaker001:] huh you've got to get a permit even to like remodel a bathroom [speaker002:] well um yeah I think I yeah yeah here in in Plano that's uh yeah [speaker001:] is that right jimminy Christmas [speaker002:] it's pretty strange [speaker001:] hum I didn't realize they were that stringent I uh have done a little bit of remodeling on my house I'm I'm an accountant but I sure enjoy um you know messed around and doing some things and I finished a couple rooms in the basement and I built a real nice storage shed on a concrete foundation and and uh I've never got a building permit yeah in fact I [speaker002:] uh-huh is that right well here yeah even even uh even just putting uh little uh uh patio outside you have to have a permit [speaker001:] I know huh [speaker002:] yeah it's it's pretty strange [speaker001:] I'm thinking about building a room on my house and I you know I haven't thought twice about getting a permit [speaker002:] yeah yeah you have uh I I think things you know are are different from city to city or from state to state but [speaker001:] um-hum well I'm not sure I think I'm supposed to have one I just never have gotten one [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] maybe my neighbor'll turn me in too [speaker002:] yeah well I I think my neighbor was a little bit uh put out because he came over to you know he he asked to to help me and he's pretty busy guy I thought anyway and I said well I've I've got my guys from work they're gonna to come over and do most of the work you know I said I appreciate your your asking but [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] it was funny because right the just the day after he called [speaker001:] is that right huh [speaker002:] yeah you know I I guess I should have let him come over and [speaker001:] I [speaker002:] and did my garage I mean I wouldn't have mind but I you know I thought he was he was pretty busy and [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] wouldn't have time to do it but that's how things are [speaker001:] well that's interesting well I know you don't have any good horror stories about home repair then because you probably uh don't have any problem if you're in the profession [speaker002:] no actually um [speaker001:] um-hum do you install metal roofs [speaker002:] we do um yeah well we we don't install we we do mostly repairs we do some uh reroofing with built up roofs [speaker001:] or or just the asphalt type shingle [speaker002:] and uh but we do repair uh metal roofs [speaker001:] uh-huh but but like if you were doing a residential if somebody a residential person uh house wanted you to come in and reroof their house but you do that kind of stuff uh-huh [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh we do that yeah uh we do work we do mostly commercial stuff uh and we do work on a lot of metal roofs but we we don't install them we just uh uh repair them [speaker001:] uh what's your opinion about those I'm my my home's gonna need to be either reshingled or reroofed in the near future we don't have a lot of heavy snow right here in Twin Falls [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but uh I was looking towards getting a whole aluminum you know or metal or whatever is [speaker002:] uh I'd be real careful extreme temperature changes uh affect the metal roofs [speaker001:] in in what way [speaker002:] it it expands and retracts and um just [speaker001:] hum more so than the asphalt shingles [speaker002:] yeah

[speaker001:] Well, uh, does the company you work for test for drugs? [speaker002:] Actually, uh, they just recently started a policy of testing drugs, which was kind of interesting, because w-, when I went to work for them, uh, they didn't do that, but, uh, since then they've, they've started a drug testing policy, not because of their own, uh, convictions, but because the clients of our company are requests that we do that. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] How about you? [speaker001:] Uh, no, we're not being tested for drugs at all, uh, our policies and procedures manual, uh, the furthest it goes about drugs is in the, kind of the miscellaneous section, or [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] it's reasons for immediate dismissal, it says, use of narcotics on company premises. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] So that's pretty general, but, uh, I work for an environmental management firm [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Okay. [speaker001:] and I'm an engineer there, but I do go on a lot of hazardous waste sites, but I don't operate any machinery. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Now, people for our company that do operate machinery like drill rigs and things like that [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] are under a, a medical monitoring program, because they're at a higher risk of exposure and blood screening is part of that and I, I think that drugs, they do test for drugs in that capacity, but it's not their exclusive, it's just part, it's just something that turns up in the other parameters that they test for. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But I think it's got a little more relevance since they are around dangerous equipment and things like that and do have to exercise some quick judgment in the field. What is the nature of your company's business? [speaker002:] Well, it's actually, uh, we do oil well services. So, a lot of our clients are oil companies, big oil companies, and they go out to, [inhaling] we have engineers who, uh, go out to the oil well, [thumping] to the, to the client's oil well, and, and work with a lot of heavy equipment and put tools down the oil well and stuff, so the clients are very concerned that, you know, the engineers who go out there are adhering to their drug policy, because they're on their, their, you know, territory and everything, but [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] the thing that's interesting is that I w-, I'm an engineer and, a software engineer and I work in the software, uh, house, and everybody there, you know, are all software engineers. They've never, you know, they never go out to the, the oil rigs or anything, and yet, we're getting, we're subjected to this policy, you know, the same one that, uh, th-, all the engineers have to, to, well, a little different, actually, but, uh, you know, we have to go through the same thing, and it's, but it's, uh, it's a little different, I guess than [NOISE], than a lot of drug policies. In our case, it's like, when you hire on, they'll test you, and then if you get injured on the job, if you like trip and fall or something, uh, they give you a drug test right away. [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] Other than that they don't have random testing or anything like that, but, a lot of people were really upset with the policy at first. Particularly, like [LAUGHTER], uh, we have a lot of parties and stuff where they serve alcohol, and tha-, they didn't find any problem with that, you know, but, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Uh, [speaker001:] We, that's been an, a, an issue, uh, in our company even though we don't have the random or even regular drug screening. In fact, they'll [LAUGHTER] have these little parties, and people will just get, I mean, I've, my brother lives where I work, and I have many a time called him to come get me, you know. And, uh, uh, but, y-, you know, they don't think twice about serving beer by the keg. [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] You know, but, uh, I think drug testing, and I, I don't know, I guess I k-, I think it's got some relevance, but I think its relevance is pretty limited. I mean, I think, you know, in your case, I don't think that you should necessarily be subjected to drug testing. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I think that's an interesting policy your company has about testing immediately after an on the job accident. [speaker002:] Yeah, it's really, it's really bizarre. Uh, particularly, like where we are, you know. I, I, there was a story of a woman last year who, who actually did slip on the ice and, and like sprained her ankle and she, she was a personnel secretary and she [LAUGHTER] had to get tested and, I don't know I'm ambivalent about the whole thing. I, you know, I have a lot of mixed feelings about on the one hand, it's like if, you know, they're, they should be able to make it as a continue of employment in some sense and, you know, it's like you're, I mean, employments are contractual by nature anyway [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but, uh, I had an experience when I was interviewing for a job that, where I had to, uh, uh, do a drug test and, and it's, it was kind of a long story, but it was, it was just an incredibly humiliating experience what I went through, and it amounted to, uh, going in, uh, before any of these interviews, I'm not even working for this company, I'm going in for, like, interviews and they flew me out to Chicago and, and, uh, before I went into any of the interviews, uh, they took me to the doctor to give me a physical. They said it was going to be a physical, you know, and, uh, actually bec-, beforehand they told me they were going to, uh, do drug screening, but I had forgotten about that, and so, basically, I'd already peed off in that morning and, and when I got in there, I didn't, I wasn't, like, able to give a full sample, and so [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] they made me sit and wait for forty-five minutes, drink a whole ton of water [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] before [LAUGHTER] I went to any of the interviews and go in there again, and the, and the, the procedure is utterly humiliating. You go in there with the doctor, he makes you take off all your clothes and then he examines you.

[speaker001:] okay well I have two boys actually they're nine years old and uh five and a half actually almost six now and they're in kindergarten and uh fourth grade how about yourself [speaker002:] there we go uh how many children do you have Jamie a uh oh we've got we've got three but they're they're kind of older children now uh we've got a daughter twenty three that's a senior in college a daughter nineteen who's a freshman in college and a son seventeen who's a senior in high school [speaker001:] okay oh my um-hum I see [speaker002:] what what kind of activities do you do with them [speaker001:] well you now they're especially the older one uh they they're into their sports and their friends a lot you know the younger one's getting into it more uh what we enjoy doing with them which we started a year ago was um we go on fishing you know day time trips with them the younger one especially is really good at it he enjoys fishing um they like to go to a place here called uh Chuckie Cheese which is really like a crazy arcade type of thing has a lot of games um and we you know we like to do outdoors types of things with them um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I just got a bike myself because I'm hoping you know eventually maybe you know for hikes or you know going out along the canal area or whatever to ride bikes with them [speaker002:] oh sure [speaker001:] and um you know we enjoy um we enjoy doing more things outdoor playing ball with them my husband likes to play freeze tag with them and and I think as American parents we probably we spend more time than is typical I think uh with the kids and part of that is that they're demanding of it you know they they want our time [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] uh and uh my husband enjoys you know doing those things with them he spends a lot of time with them and it seems to me anyway from observing other families in the neighborhood that he spends a lot more time I'd say on the average than um a lot of the dads do here and I think that's good I think it's real important [speaker002:] I think I think uh I think that is and and we we got involved really in in two ways uh my oldest daughter I guess when she went uh was in the first grade brought home a note saying uh we're getting up a soccer team and we're getting a chance to play soccer [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh so gee you know this was nineteen seventy three and none of us had ever seen a soccer game so then so then we go out and watch it and she enjoys it and they play the fall season and spring season so she played two seasons in the first grade and [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] was pretty good at it and then in the second grade they said uh oh the coach moved away uh call all the parents and say well who's going to uh coach well no gee you know well we really don't have enough time for that [speaker001:] um-hum uh oh [speaker002:] then about the third call they said we want to know we're going to refund the contracts and the money for these kids because nobody's going to coach and think that's terrible so at that point you know you come forward well that started about a fifteen year career of coaching uh coaching administering programs and my wife and I in addition to coaching I think when we finally finished up we were managing [speaker001:] oh my goodness [speaker002:] uh as our volunteer time managing a program with seventy two hundred kids in it from grades uh kindergarten through twelfth grade and year around baseball softball soccer [speaker001:] and I well I think that's really good though because I'm sure those are memories they'll always keep [speaker002:] oh they are are and and and you know my twenty three year old she's a senior in college and she comes in now and she just loves to pick out the picture book we took a lot of pictures at the time dad do you remember that sixth grade team we had that year dad God we were great weren't we [speaker001:] um-hum yeah that's right I and I really uh I really think it's very important and I'm very sensitive to it because I always felt that my parents are more uh old school and they were older parents and they didn't do a lot of things with us that way and I always felt that I missed out that way and so I want to make sure that we spend a lot of time doing activities with the kids and I think a lot of times the parents have fun as well and uh you know now that summer's coming of course I'm sure in Dallas it's already hot but up here [speaker002:] oh yeah I'll say [speaker001:] well we've had last weekend we had eighty seven which was extraordinarily hot for now but now we're back down to about fifty and it's raining here but um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh you know soon next end of next month the pools are open the outdoor pools only open over the summer [speaker002:] yeah oh sure that'll help yeah [speaker001:] and that's an activity that I you know take up with the kids and we're starting to hit some tennis balls around uh but as as they're getting more fun for us as well and I find that starting to doing more of those types of things as they get a little bit older um but yeah I was going to say what do you feel in general do you feel that um American families are spending spending enough time with their children or what changes do you [speaker002:] well now I I think that they're not uh uh I see too many uh you I recognize that yes a a lot of families need two incomes in fact my wife's working as we the kids all start college and we're looking forward to the prospect of having three in there uh they they have to [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] uh both work but another activity that I found very rewarding and I don't know whether you've got it up there are Indian Guides and Indian Princess programs [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] popular in that area okay well what this is is it's it's really sponsored by the Y but it's nonsectarian uh is that it's the concept was [speaker001:] no no I haven't heard of that um-hum [speaker002:] that I think it originally started with Indian Guides and uh the idea was that dads are off working all the time and mothers are left to raise the kids [speaker001:] I see [speaker002:] so uh uh it it it is a program that requires uh dads and just and it started out with with fathers and sons [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] where they get together in what they call tribes which is a neighborhood with probably five or six maybe up to eight uh father son combinations and they get together and and meet at each other's home uh maybe uh twice a month [speaker001:] I see um-hum [speaker002:] uh to uh uh have uh uh games and uh work on crafts and work on projects and and refreshments and you take Indian names and wear headbands and act like in and uh learn a little about Indian [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] uh things but then uh the highlight is that you go camping twice a year like you go out to some uh camping spot and live outdoors uh in the fall and in the spring and you like you go out on a Friday night and come back on Sunday morning and it is uh it's to force [speaker001:] oh I see oh that's nice [speaker002:] uh the kids away from the mothers for a little a little bit and it's even to the point where the host family at the meetings at each other's homes have to provide uh uh have to provide refreshments and they've got to be cooked by you and you can't say mom make some cookies for us [speaker001:] oh I see [speaker002:] so part of the thing is when the father and son or father and daughter are hosting this meeting that the week they have to plan it together what they're going to do when they're the host [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and what was interesting I got started in Indians and Princesses now an offshoot to this was I think this program went on maybe for thirty years or so and somebody got to thinking well it's even more important [speaker001:] I see um-hum [speaker002:] it's even more important for dads and daughters [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] to get involved in something like this because a lot of families think well you know I I I'll bring up the son mom and you bring up the daughters [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and they don't notice the daughters until they're fourteen or fifteen and start getting into trouble so uh uh because my son was the third one I really got into it with both of the girls first [speaker001:] right yeah I see [speaker002:] and uh we just had a ton of fun and I I look back now as I say the the two girls are both in college but when they're here and we're we're talking about and we're digging out the old pictures books and my twenty we took a lot of eight millimeter movies [speaker001:] oh that's good [speaker002:] of uh of uh Indian Princess camp and my uh uh my my twenty three year old has has hoarded all the movies now and and and just sets up the projector in her room and watches them every once in a while uh going back to things like that and boy those these are so many precious things that you can't ever buy back and and to answer your question [speaker001:] that's right that's right [speaker002:] yeah I I don't see it we've got a lot of younger fa milies in our neighborhood and everybody's so busy out there making a living uh you can see why the well I know uh [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] uh my daughter who's a freshman in college this year her last couple of years in high school she made money money baby sitting and you can tell by the number of people that would have her come and and spend the day [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh my goodness she went out on one job she was only seventeen I can't believe the lady gave it to her she said she interviewed nineteen people and she was the one she hired this was uh a three week old [speaker001:] oh my oh boy [speaker002:] she went to the house at eight o'clock in the morning and and both these uh uh there were there was an only child [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and both parents were professional uh they were professional people I mean he was an engineer and she was a computer programmer [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but she went to work at eight o'clock in the morning and Tracy'd get there at seven thirty and have complete charge of this then three week old until the mother came home at uh at four or four thirty [speaker001:] oh my yeah right right yeah I think and I think that's uh uh part of the problem now I was uh uh I was in engineering myself um right now I'm taking uh a year off but uh it was it's very difficult even when I worked I insisted on working thirty hours not forty so I was really considered part time and that was kind of difficult because that concept when you get into professions like that isn't really there yet so I really had to hound them for that I was a civil engineer [speaker002:] what what kind of engineering were you in oh okay [speaker001:] and it was really important for me to be able to be out in time to swing by the school and pick my son up [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and of course the younger one was in day care but you find even working six hours a day and not eight hours or whatever that it cuts into your time so much and what happens really is that even though I had the time with them in the evenings all the things that you you you know normally you can get done during the week um you save up for the weekend so your whole weekend that your kids really want your attention but you're saying oh can you go play now or whatever because you have so many things to catch up on [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and I think that's what you know I think it really uh that's what makes it very makes it difficult and uh this year's much more relaxed [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know and um a lot of people said they've seen very big changes in my boys for the better you know and um I think that you know I've I've done both sides and it's it's no matter what people say it it is too difficult

[speaker001:] all right okay so what do you think of the Giants [speaker002:] uh I like the Giants they got uh I probably didn't get into baseball until maybe maybe four three years ago really [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so uh but I I I just like the Giants I don't I don't know why I really got into them I read uh Dave Dreveki's book his autobiography and [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah wasn't that something of him [speaker002:] yeah that that was incredible [speaker001:] yeah that's really a really proud of him though the way he's you know [speaker002:] the way he handled that entire situation yeah [speaker001:] yeah really you know [speaker002:] but I just think the Giants have a good team they they got all you know they're they're real they're real balanced out they got real good pitching and they got the hitting to go along with it so [speaker001:] yeah I just don't understand why they're not right up there on the top you know [speaker002:] yeah they just they need that I think they just need that one one element to push them over the top you know I don't really know what it is but but every team that's that's really good seems you know like the A's had they had they just had it all that one year so [speaker001:] um-hum yeah um I was mostly an A's fan you know I had been to more games at the A's than I have in the Giants [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] because uh I lived in Oakland you know for some time [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but uh I still like the Giants though you know [speaker002:] yeah if you if you're a fan you got to stay with your team any way you know you good and the bad but [speaker001:] yeah right yeah [speaker002:] it's it's kind of hard I still well basically the the me and all my friends around here since we don't have anywhere I mean we can go to the Astros or the Rangers teams but since none me or none of me and my friends are really really like either one of those teams so we uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] about the about the most most baseball we get is either TV or we play it on Nintendo we play RBI baseball on Nintendo so so that's just you know that's small town trying to make it through the [speaker001:] yeah right right [speaker002:] through the lull not being around it really but [speaker001:] yeah yeah right well I prefer baseball uh football over baseball but uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah so do I but baseball is still [speaker001:] yeah it's [speaker002:] you got you got to do something when football ain't on so [speaker001:] so add hot dogs baseball and apple pie huh [speaker002:] yeah exactly this this is America so [speaker001:] yeah um so what do you think's gonna happen this year to the teams [speaker002:] uh but uh I don't know it's hard to say I haven't really really you have to just keep up with everything in the off season it's kind of hard to do at least you know you have to read the paper and [speaker001:] I know [speaker002:] Sports Illustrated and everything to keep up with who they traded and who they picked up and and all that but like I say if they can if they can get that one element that they were missing I think the Giants can do it [speaker001:] yeah well the Giants yeah [speaker002:] they just I don't you I don't really know about the A's I don't like the A's uh matter of fact I can't stand the Oakland A's just because they have that you know they've got their Jose Canseco and and all the attitude that goes along with that you know the kind of [speaker001:] yeah makes you sick doesn't it [speaker002:] yeah you hear what you hear did you hear what he did he ramming his car wife's car and I I was like yeah see that's just [speaker001:] yes he's like a little bitty kid huh [speaker002:] yeah he's just a a a little boy with a lot of money so that's just you know but [speaker001:] yeah yeah well I guess the Giants or might move away from San Francisco it sounds like [speaker002:] yeah I've heard I've heard talk about that [speaker001:] you know uh they won't be that far away but San Francisco it'll be hurting anyhow [speaker002:] yeah they're not gonna be happy about it [speaker001:] you know [speaker002:] but I hope they can do good I mean that's just I think they're a good team that just need that one one little thing to push them over I don't know exactly what it is they got they're pretty balanced out all the way through it just might be the drive you know more than anything else they just they probably just need something to push them [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] because I that's that's the only thing I can see that's holding them back is the ambition to do it or somebody basically maybe they just need everybody to tell them they can't do it maybe that's what you know that's what some teams need look at the Twins going from worst to first so [speaker001:] I know isn't that something you couldn't believe that huh [speaker002:] yeah my roommate's a my roommate's a Twins fan forever forever so he had his year this year so [speaker001:] yeah I just it [speaker002:] we we got quite preoccupied we we got into that a whole bunch that was a that was a series to remember for sure [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] so I saw all seven games of that so that was definitely worth watching [speaker001:] um-hum yeah yeah I couldn't believe that you know I don't uh there was Braves in that chanting that they have that would drive you up a wall [speaker002:] yeah yeah they every every every team with the Indians been doing that now and it and it I can't figure out why I've yet to figure out why they're all doing that I'm like it doesn't work it's obvious it doesn't work because the you know the Braves [speaker001:] you know God yeah well you're right [speaker002:] the Braves didn't win so uh why why keep on doing something that didn't work but [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker002:] I don't know I was I was kind of surprised that we're gonna talk about baseball and I get a woman's voice I was I was I was thinking uh-huh I talked to a guy named Vinny last night about fixing your car so [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] yeah I got I called got a call the other night about about fixing your automobile up so [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] but well baseball baseball it's it's kind of I don't know it's kind of odd that they'd do you pick the topic or does the computer [speaker001:] yeah right no uh they give you a list of things that you want to talk

[speaker001:] have you any thoughts [speaker002:] well you called here so [speaker001:] okay well um I'll tell you I am uh uh impressed with the uh uh amount of spending that's occurred so far as as far as AIDS research and I think that uh proportionately maybe uh so far it's been enough it seems like it seems like uh but there's not uh been any money taken away from uh other necessary medical research uh uh subjects uh you know and and allocated towards the AIDS research I think that AIDS research has been a a a lot of the funding has not been done by the government a lot of it has been done by private endowment uh but I think the government is doing a good job so far of keeping the uh their portion of the funding up [speaker002:] well I um I agree to an extent um I think the problem is is that we're spending money and one of the things that the government likes to do when they're under public pressure is to throw money at the problem [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] in an attempt to try and solve it as quickly as possible and they did that with the Pentagon in the eighties and when you have a lot of money in your budget and you don't wanna have it cut back you spend it even if it means throwing it away [speaker001:] um-hum right [speaker002:] and I think that while we need to spend more effort and money on things like education and maybe even alternative treatments and alternative experiments things to keep those afflicted alive at this point [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I think that any money that is given must be given carefully just to something that is a proven point not just thrown at it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um I I don't see that the money is being removed from any other causes um AIDS has been a problem though especially in the eighties when there wasn't a lot of private dollars around because of the stigma of the disease [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and that people really didn't groups didn't wanna be associated with it because it was a morals issue [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I think we're finally getting over that I thought that was ridiculous reading and hearing about that kind of moral dilemma stuff but I think that it we need to spend a lot more on education and try and get over this thing that we have about not confronting this head on with some factual advertising for items of condoms and things like that that [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] will help prevent the uh disease as well as instilling the notion that the best way not to get it is not to involve yourselves in unsafe practices in the first place [speaker001:] exactly um it although I was uh I I was shocked at the public um uh outrage uh that occurred after after I uh think it was Dan Quayle who said um you know who suggested that maybe maybe we you know maybe that is a a possible and and uh uh likely most effective solution is you know abstinence and and yet the a large portion of the community said well that's stupid you know that just shows that you have no interest in in in spending any money on the on the problem and I thought that that that that that's not that's not the point at all [speaker002:] well the the problem is that with this administration at least when they say abstinence they often couch that in other things that turn into one of these morals issues which uh makes it turn into a political issue now you see the problem is you have people in the National Institutes of Health in Atlanta and the like the Centers for Disease Control which [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] have fundamentalists in charge of the thing who won't even let you say condom in a meeting [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and these things have been spread around and immediately immediately people think well abstinence okay here we have these religious zealots telling us where they're trying to ignore the problem blah blah blah and of course they overreact when you say that the fact that it's just good medical safe practice you know don't expose yourself in the first place [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] but the it's because the the the you know this administration was around when Reagan when the disease first was discovered here and all the social you know implications of the Reagan administration ignoring it when it first became an issue and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] see that's all carrying over now [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and that's why you're seeing that [speaker001:] okay that that makes a little bit of sense uh I I hadn't I was not aware that that was uh such a a within the NIH that uh that was that much uh [speaker002:] yeah there is because what happened is a lot of these people and staff members are political appointees [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] from the south especially who come along with a variety of different religious beliefs some of which held very fervent beliefs and will take their beliefs into the workplace in and in this case a lot of people consider that to be standing in the way of science and medicine to try and solve this thing [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] but I I don't like throwing money at the problem uh because

[speaker001:] okay I uh I think in general that the the uh one of the biggest change in in uh the role of women in the last two generations is the fact that because of the uh probably the national debt as a matter of fact but the uh impossibility of of uh making ends meat even in a family that which has a two two parent family [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but many women work out of the home now [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and probably that is the biggest uh change of her role that she now has to um not only be uh mother um nurturer or whatever but she also has to to help earn the earn the income that comes into the home [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and uh and it has [speaker002:] oh I I'd agree with you I think that is one of the big big changes [speaker001:] right it has uh uh has a lot of effect on a family and it can be positive and it can be very negative [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh and uh I think a lot of the problems that we that we have in in school in education a lot of the problems we have in drugs a lot of the problems we have in in uh uh juvenile delinquency whatever probably can be laid right at that door [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] because uh a child who does not have the kind of underpinnings that you can get uh with uh with a parent in the home whether it's the father or the mother [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh it just does not have the same kind of opportunities as the one who does [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] that's the kind of uh what would it be uh uh calming influence or whatever [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh I think another thing it gives them the feeling of of uh the importance of their position [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] as a child you know and and course most of their problems come from uh lack of ego [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] as opposed to too much ego most of them uh do things because they either want attention or because they they feel that they're not worthy [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and so they they do things that they're not not what the the norm would like them to do [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so that it is always kind of negative [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] what what do you feel about how do you feel about the role of women being a man that make that gives you a different [speaker002:] well I mean I I I agree with you substantially I think uh I think getting women because of you know declining standard of living we're not living as well as our parents did or making as much money um and um that was probably to a degree true for them I mean it's no longer the case where um many people can afford to have one parent stay at home and raise the kids or whatever so a lot of people are opting not to have kids or both parents are working and you got to rely on things like day care [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] uh to raise the kids and certainly that's not going to be as stable an environment as uh when you do have a parent at home [speaker001:] yeah I think that's probably [speaker002:] taking care of them and I I agree with you completely I think that's that's certainly having a lot of effects on our society [speaker001:] yeah I think so do do you have children [speaker002:] um no I don't no I'm single [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] um but um the I mean I think that's one of the major things and I think that's had a lot of side effects in the way women get treated in society [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um I guess one of the things that we can concern ourselves with is is how things are likely to continue to change uh in the immediate future [speaker001:] I I think that's probably true I think one of the problems is that that government in their meddling tends to encourage that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] instead of discourage it instead of giving you a break so that maybe a wife could stay home and do [speaker002:] yeah um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] something satisfying in another area you know I I think there are women who need to do things other than just be a mother but I think that's possible [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I mean I don't think that education or anything else starts at school it starts in your head [speaker002:] um-hum um [speaker001:] and any anyplace you are you can educate be educated [speaker002:] I agree with you I agree with you [speaker001:] and so it it doesn't mean they have to stop doing all the things that they might want to do and uh and so but [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but the environment [speaker002:] and I don't think it I don't think it even means that all women necessarily have to stay home and raise kids either you know I mean it should be optional [speaker001:] no no nor do they have to stay home all the time [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] there are lots of ways that they that you can do this but the but the problem is that they have so little choice [speaker002:] right well I'd like to see for example more flextime in the workplace I mean I think that would certainly help things [speaker001:] yeah yeah I think that's right I think that would be good [speaker002:] um a greater acceptance of part-time jobs [speaker001:] right and have and have and and if if anybody is going to help them decide about uh about day care or something maybe it needs to be something worked out in uh in uh [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] in uh um a workplace [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so that they can their children can go there so that they can see them so that they can have this uh you know during lunchtime or whatever [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] some kind of a better uh contact and more uh a better feeling of of the fact that they are the important thing in this household as opposed to the work [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] schedule being the important thing in this household [speaker002:] yeah I think there's also a lot of interesting side effects to women having taken a more prominent position in the workplace I think it's changed the workplace in in a lot of respects [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh interestingly enough it also seems to have shortened uh women's life spans so there's [speaker001:] I would imagine that's right [speaker002:] there's there's something to be said about you know all the stress related kinds of things that that happen when you do have a full time job [speaker001:] that's right that's right it's not and and and the the problem is you see that it isn't just the stress of the work but they but they had plenty of stress before [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] now they're just doubling their stress and that's and that's really [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] uh really more than you can take sometimes I think that's true that's true I I think that uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh there are a lot of really positive things about the changes about uh uh more women going for for uh better educations and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] all these things I think in uh in a person's life there are a lots of [speaker002:] they have more freedom [speaker001:] right and there are lots of of stages of your life where you can do things that you didn't do [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh at some other time that uh if you're better prepared you're going to be able to take advantage of those things maybe later or or maybe during sometimes [speaker002:] right well I also think there's no longer sort of this predisposition that the woman has to be the caretaker and the upbringer for the children I think that's starting to dissipate [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and I think that's good too I mean there's no reason why the father couldn't do it uh [speaker001:] yeah that's right I think so too with [speaker002:] I I agree with you that I think someone needs to do it that's important [speaker001:] someone needs to do it that's the thing we just we just came from our son just graduated from uh from in his Master's degree and his wife is a nurse and he had just graduated in social services work and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh when she went back they just had a a baby in January and when she went back to work she says okay I'll work I'll work five days in two weeks but it has to be the times when he's home [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and so that one of them is taking care of this baby all the time but it's a neat thing to watch because he's as adept at it as she is [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and and equally as comfortable and I think that is a neat thing it it'll it'll be neat for the children too if you can get a relationship like that but where the where the husband is comfortable [speaker002:] right yeah I think I'm [speaker001:] doing those things because children badly need more of that [speaker002:] yep well I I think it will help the kids be better adjusted when they grow up [speaker001:] badly need more of that that's right badly more well hey it's been good to talk to you [speaker002:] yeah it's been nice talking to you too [speaker001:] yeah all right have a good day um-hum bye-bye [speaker002:] you too bye

[speaker002:] do you have any do you have any uh major preferences as far as television [speaker001:] TV um trying to think I was trying to think of some while they were calling you um I like Friday what is it is it Friday or Saturday night shows I think it's Friday night [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] all the um the one with the two little girls in it what's it called [speaker002:] yeah uh oh uh [speaker001:] or three little girls [speaker002:] yeah the the two twins play the the twins play that one the the youngest girl [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] right I really like that what's it called I trying [speaker002:] um I don't know all I can think of is the name of all of them in the family but that's not it Full House yeah [speaker001:] yeah there you go yeah I really like that show [speaker002:] yeah that is good I I like uh we have cable I really like watching the old Nick at Nite shows you know where you get to watch Dragnet and Mister Ed and [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] uh we we can watch those all night sometimes and Donna Reed yeah [speaker001:] oh really um lately I've been getting into talk shows and yeah just you know controversy and [speaker002:] oh yeah which which which one do which ones do you like [speaker001:] just really whatever just as long it depends on the subject actually where where it's more interesting some of them get pretty boring but [speaker002:] uh-huh right uh-huh yeah yeah uh there's that guy I think it's out of Dallas his name is um oh I wish I could remember his name [speaker001:] is he one of the talk show guys [speaker002:] yeah he's he's black and yeah no he's black and has a bald head and his first name starts with an M [speaker001:] Maury Povich hum let's see [speaker002:] oh it's like his first name's like Marlo Marlo or Marlin I can't remember his name anyway he always has like really strange shows like uh uh male strippers or female strippers or really sensationalistic you know uh like what Geraldo used to be [speaker001:] yeah it something yeah see I don't I don't like those I like [speaker002:] yeah I don't either it'd [speaker001:] more controversial subjects I think [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but I mean yeah [speaker002:] yeah do you watch cartoons a lot [speaker001:] no I'm [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] I don't watch TV that much uh anymore anymore it seems like uh I'm going to school right now so [speaker002:] oh yeah where you going to school [speaker001:] BYU [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah so and I'm working too so everything keeps me pretty busy [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh I'm going to UTD here in Dallas yeah [speaker001:] but oh really my dad taught there for a while yeah [speaker002:] oh really what did he teach [speaker001:] um speech pathology [speaker002:] that's what I'm majoring in I'm a graduate student in speech [speaker001:] oh wow no way how long have you been there [speaker002:] yeah yeah uh this is my first semester [speaker001:] oh okay so you wouldn't know him he [speaker002:] yeah who who who who who what when did he teach [speaker001:] hum um he taught about a year ago he used to work at um um University of Texas at Dallas what no um oh shoot I can't remember what it's even called now but um he worked there for like fifteen years and then part time UTD at night and and then they stopped funding the program there [speaker002:] oh yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] um and so now he's at Texas Women's University yeah [speaker002:] oh really oh is he teaching speech pathology there [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] okay what's his name [speaker001:] Allen Bird [speaker002:] Bird B I R D [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] yeah he published a paper uh couple of years ago I think didn't he well well one that I read does he publish a little quite a bit [speaker001:] um some what and he has he has some like different programs out like I don't know what they're called but they're like in he has little animals stuffed animals with him and like little cards and stuff I don't know exactly [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah okay I yeah he has a test he has a testing yeah a testing battery he uses real yeah I remember I remember yeah well that's interesting [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] uh what are you studying [speaker001:] um I was I am studying nursing but I'm thinking about changing right now [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I just I don't know and it's really tough to get into the program down here so if I don't do that if I decide to stay in nursing I'll probably come and go to TWU [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah I'm living in the TWU dorm across from Collier uh yeah and all [speaker001:] oh really my dad used to teach at Collier too [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's that's where the speech program is in uh I'm living in that dorm and there all those nursing majors I I tell you what that's that's a tough that's a tough uh field though nursing is I [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I have a lot of respect for those people I mean they spend a lot of hours studying [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so you're at Baylor [speaker001:] no I'm at BYU in Utah yeah yeah [speaker002:] oh okay Brigham Young I see all right [speaker001:] so but I get to come home and on the nineteenth and I'm so excited so homesick [speaker002:] oh really do you do you do you like Salt it's it's in Salt Lake City right [speaker001:] it's in Provo actually but yeah I really I really like it out here but I've been I I've been away too long [speaker002:] oh it do you um-hum I'm from Colorado so I I've been away from there too long [speaker001:] um huh how

[speaker001:] Uh, I'm of the age that could have gone, although I didn't and, uh, I guess, uh, looking back on it, I tend to think it was pretty, uh, mostly a mistake. [speaker002:] [TV] [breathing] [static] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] On the other hand, uh, the more I learn about the history, the more I see it was incremental, uh, decisions. Any one of which was sort of understandable at the time. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, but on the whole I think it, uh, probably was the wrong thing to do. How about you? [speaker002:] Well, I'm, uh, [NOISE] I, I was just, uh, in high school I guess when it, when it ended. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Ended up being, I was in the last, last lottery. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And I was glad it was over by then. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] I've never really totally understood what our purpose was over there. Just [talking] because, you know, we didn't really do anything when we went over it seems like. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] You know, we, uh, those people that I know, I work with several that were over there, [throat clearing] and for some of them it was just kind of, I don't know, not so much a holiday, I guess that's how they tend to talk about it. But that they just kind of lived out in the woods and ever now and then, they'd go and shoot their rifles and then they'd, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. *slash error [speaker002:] come back and you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. *slash error should be 'b' [speaker002:] But that they weren't really allowed to do anything. I, uh, to me it seems like we only went halfway. If even halfway. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Yeah, it's funny. Tonight I was, uh, [speaker002:] [Throat clearing]. *slash error [speaker001:] helping my kid with an essay on, uh, Stalin. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. *slash error should be 'b' [speaker001:] And I was thinking in the course of talking to him about it, how, uh, in World War Two, the personalties of Stalin, Hitler and Churchill more or less defined the war and actually when you think back on the big events of the war, it was, uh, it was almost a personal struggle among these three, uh, I guess you'd have to call them great men in some sense. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Uh, they're certainly all leaders and, uh, and, uh, with their nations pretty, pretty solidly behind each one of them. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And I got a feeling that some of that was involved in the, uh, early decisions of the Vietnam war. That the, uh, [throat clearing] people saw the cold war as, uh, you had to draw a line and, and defend it. Otherwise there'd be, they'd get you someplace else. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Looking back, it seems like that was only partly true. That, uh, there might have been a better place to draw the line [LAUGHTER]. Uh, I guess you can, I guess you can say that a, a certain amount of resolve and willingness to fight, uh, brought the cold war to an end. But I don't think you can just fight anywhere just, just in order to, uh, call the bully out and beat him. And I have a feeling that that's part of what was involved in the Vietnamese war. They felt like this was a place where we could draw a line, [speaker002:] [Talking]. *slash error [speaker001:] beat them and they wouldn't come forward. And, uh [speaker002:] Uh-huh. *slash error should be 'b' [speaker001:] we were wrong [LAUGHTER]. But I, uh, you know, the, like I said, the more I hear about it, the more I can see each decision that was made as being understandable. But the accumulative effect was to really get into a, a hopeless situation where, and as you say, uh, going halfway was probably worse than, uh, committing, uh, committing to a completely and, uh, winning it, whatever that would mean. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, I, I, I think we did, I think we did learn some lessons that we weren't, uh, we weren't prepared for, I guess the best word would be the atrocities of war. [speaker001:] Yeah [throat clearing]. [speaker002:] Uh, I mean the other wars seemed like a valiant war. I mean [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] they seemed like a valiant thing. You knew, you knew who was good. You knew who was bad. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And it was a, it was a traditional m-, the traditional battle of, kind of good versus evil, if you, you know [speaker001:] Well you're not, [speaker002:] whichever way it is. But in, in the Vietnam war it seems like it was, a, a, the sides and the lines that were drawn are all confused as to who's good and who's bad and [speaker001:] It's ambivalent, yeah. [speaker002:] and, uh, you know, the, even, it seems like even the people, you know, had the South Vietnamese, the North Vietnamese and, of course, the Laotians and the Cambodians weren't even supposed to be involved. But, [speaker001:] What, what about the domestic effects like I was thinking that maybe the most important effect it had was to make it, uh, possible and even popular to, uh, criticize the government. And they, that pendulum started to swing, uh, ma-, maybe even too far. To the point where, uh, uh, supporting a government decision in foreign policy was sort of optional [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] from the Vietnam war on. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And that tradition is still, I mean it's dying now, but it's still alive as opposed to, this Desert Storm stuff may have, uh [speaker002:] Yeah. [TV] [breathing] [static]. [speaker001:] killed it. But I think that was one of the biggest, that, you know, the, uh, th-, the domestic unrest,

[speaker001:] well I I been uh I've probably had more time than you have to think about this subject so I'll tell you is is it a serious problem yes I do believe it's a serious problem however there are solutions to it [speaker002:] um-hum yeah um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and foremost uh where we compare we that we are now doing fifty percent of our uh people are voting uh we're probably making a comparison against uh some European and uh and uh uh say newer republics that uh that have very high percentages [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] uh so uh one of the reasons that that uh one one of the reasons that we could get uh one of the reasons that it is lower in the United States is that mostly we hold it on Tuesdays God knows why we hold it on Tuesdays and then we further complicate it by saying you know we'll keep the polls open until eight o'clock [speaker002:] what right [speaker001:] most people uh a great number of people now work at various at different jobs that if a third of the people are shift workers they won't be able to get to the to the polls in any case if they uh have to work late into the evening and not get up [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] my solution to that is that we hold it on Sundays as do probably sixty to seventy percent of the European countries now [speaker002:] oh really they hold it on the weekends [speaker001:] they hold it on the week no they hold it on a either a Saturday or a Sunday or at least a day when when uh a great number of people aren't working in in America that's not true because a a great number of people work on Sundays [speaker002:] Sunday uh-huh huh well uh [speaker001:] but but that's one of my solutions so [speaker002:] I I know here in Dallas that they've just instituted in the last couple of years a um a real long period of time that you can absentee vote before the elections and they I don't think they've seen a really high improvement [speaker001:] have you absentee voted in in in Texas well I have absentee voted in uh New Hampshire and it's a fairly fairly complicated process where you have to go pick up the ballot [speaker002:] no no I always vote oh really [speaker001:] I don't say it's that complicated but part of the process also is that you must register preregister at some particular point New Hampshire is fairly easy but other states you have to register every couple of years and uh [speaker002:] hum to absentee vote specifically [speaker001:] well to vote to vote to just vote so registrations are perhaps a a problem also and we're the mobile mobile society uh people are always mobile you know one out of every seven people moves every year [speaker002:] oh um-hum [speaker001:] uh that's almost a fourteen percent turnover every you know if you compound that that uh if it is difficult to register to vote that would remove your eligibility to vote [speaker002:] um-hum but I don't think it's difficult enough to prevent people who are motivated in the first place who or who are not just motivated who really believe that their they [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] their voice is heard I mean and the people that I've talked to [speaker001:] well maybe that's another factor the motivational factor the motivational factor is probably I [speaker002:] right I think that is the biggest one that's the biggest problem I [speaker001:] well that's diminished by we we've noticed this in particular I I'm just read two books one of them is Whose Stars and Stripes Now [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the uh trivial pursuit of the presidency in nineteen eighty eight it's a fairly decent book I mean it's uh [speaker002:] oh really hum [speaker001:] it's preceded by uh several other books by these guys uh Wake Me Up When It's Over was about the eighty four elections and I forget what the other books were but any case uh it it it's uh uh the uh uh there was the Blue Smoke and Mirrors was the one in eighty two uh they these guys uh have taken the place of Theodore White on reporting elections in any case they say that uh there's a definite trend uh well you know toward candidates using negative voting it's the only way that you can use television effectively [speaker002:] I don't understand that why do uh is that just because they have such a low opinion of the public and the public's um gullibility [speaker001:] no the public would rather hear something negative about the other guy than uh than than a positive factor and you and you know to if you if you go on the attack and and put some sensational thing before the public as Mike Dukakis learned in the last campaign and it's not refuted people will you know uh believe it if you don't refute it as he didn't that that there must be some truth to the matter see [speaker002:] well he did refute it he he refuted it just wasn't effective enough to [speaker001:] well he didn't refute it until the last two weeks of the campaign he didn't believe anybody would believe that and indeed his trend started upward [speaker002:] well that see I I didn't believe anybody would believe that either I I I guess I have I have a hard time coming to terms with the the fact that the American public really [speaker001:] well they do [speaker002:] was you know so [speaker001:] well don't give too much credit to the American public for their motivational ability and and and it [speaker002:] well then how can a democracy work then how how can it work [speaker001:] well it uh well I don't know is it working I mean that's that's the question I guess the question also is that we discovered is that they don't throw rascals out everybody seems disappointed but they don't throw the rascal out their own rascal [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] uh my my solution to to part of this is is to to make it an economic economic incentive for people to vote that sounds rather crass I think because then then you're saying well uh [speaker002:] what [speaker001:] you know you it could be convoluted convoluted in many ways where people would actually uh by paying them I mean you know you take a certain amount off their income tax or property tax or whatever [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] but that it would be very difficult to administer because I'm sure that any time money and votes are involved it just the whole thing just stinks [speaker002:] well how about how about the reverse of that when I've heard about England's elections they are allowed to run for what a total of six or eight weeks even for the higher offices in the in the land what if we totally took money out of the campaign made just severely limited the campaigns so money wasn't so much of an issue I feel like if if we did that people would have a lot higher confidence that their vote was counting rather than their contributions would count [speaker001:] yeah but the idea is to get the individual to the polls and and and we have to make it as easy as possible for him to get to the polls [speaker002:] I don't think I don't care how easy it is for them I don't think they're going to because they don't think that their that anybody listens to their vote they think whoever has the bucks they really think that the packs you know no matter what you're promised during a campaign and these days we're promised hardly anything of substance right [speaker001:] oh you mean the special interest groups [speaker002:] and uh and uh yeah no matter what a uh candidate promises during the campaign which isn't very much specific any that they don't promise anything specific these days but whatever you're promised they just they just reverse themselves depending on who pays them what once they get into office I mean I think that's the [speaker001:] well read my lips and and and no new taxes and yet Bush did that but I mean but but he's excused from that generally people I've read polls now where they've excused him because there was a a definite necessity to balance the budget [speaker002:] yeah yeah well then why did he say that during his campaign then he should it was totally [speaker001:] oh he he he gave it that he he did he did he promised the best he could and he's the president and he should he should address those problems and if there needs to be a change in a period of time why what was so funny about it is that I guess that it happened so rapidly you know he knew it he actually knew it and being associated with government he should be held up to the light for that and maybe he will [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well [speaker001:] but I think it's uh I mean I think you you still have a view that the American voter is different from other voters and he's motivated because we happ en to be the cradle of liberty and all that I think voters are motivated uh [speaker002:] what about what about voters in the other countries that you're talking about like in the European countries where they have higher turnouts and well the newer democracies because it's going to be totally different but [speaker001:] well I don't know if they have higher turnouts overall I don't think England has I think England has about a seventy percent sixty five percent turn out [speaker002:] you don't think so uh-huh [speaker001:] I think that we just discovered in this in in the Indian elections is one of the greatest and massive things in the in the world [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] uh just it was got violent more violent every year they went down to almost fifty percent in this election before they blew up Gandhi but [speaker002:] right oh really [speaker001:] simply because people were so concerned about [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] their inability that to that their vote doesn't count anyway [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] and the corruption of politics in in in that situation but then but you know everything is relative to when uh you know we had higher turnouts because at that time we talk about the turnout relative to the eligible voter right [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I mean is but but before these enormous before this Voting Rights Act what we had was a a great deal of our population uh mainly the Blacks in the South and the Hispanics were precluded by [speaker002:] um-hum oh [speaker001:] by uh voting laws uh from registering from their eligibility to register now everybody's available [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] so if you really computed it they probably when we said we had a seventy percent turnout in nineteen fifty we really only had a fifty percent turnout because all the eligible voters [speaker002:] oh I see because right weren't qualified disqualified were disqualified [speaker001:] you know the it was skewed by the eligible voters being less than the total population of [speaker002:] but isn't that isn't that kind of a blanket racist kind of thing to say the Blacks and Hispanics and other minorities just don't vote or is that just the the truth [speaker001:] no I think the high there's a higher percentage in in certain Black areas of voters I don't know about Hispanics you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I just I I mean I haven't studied the statistics well enough to I mean I think in this sort of a [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] conversation we can only do our own reactions [speaker002:] right right but you know that just made me think of something that happened down here in Dallas last year they have this huge fight going over redistricting here and at one point they did they took another vote on it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and they uh the minorities could not get enough of a vote out to to pass their plan and this is something that had been going on for months it was on the news every night they and they have had lawsuits over it I mean it was it was a major issue and there still wasn't enough minority vote to get to pass the plan that they were backing so that's you you know I think that you have really hit on something there to say that uh those [speaker001:] what do you mean [speaker002:] well with the minorities and we're saying we have low voter turnout maybe it is is uh now that we have minorities included in the [speaker001:] you know Karen I wonder if we are recording [speaker002:] why did you not press one [speaker001:] I did press one but usually by this time they tell me that the time is up

[speaker001:] Well, this is an unusual topic. What do you think about it? [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, I, at first I, it took eight times to find you [LAUGHTER] so I told my husband, uh, you know, what should I say and then he reminded me, but, uh, uh, [lipsmack] hi-, in his family, uh, what they usually do, on his dad's side, his mom or, uh, the aunts will send out little postcards, like, two or three weeks before reminding everyone where the, the, where to meet and, you know, just, to bring anything, and so they just notify everyone by mail, and then they just meet at, like, a park or something to have like a, a short, uh, or a small, uh, dinner type thing. [speaker001:] Well, that sounds great, Ellen. How far away do they come from? [speaker002:] Uh, they come from, well, they all meet in Portland and they come as far as, oh, Seattle and, and sometimes we've gone and we were f-, we were living in Utah at the time. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] And, uh, the, his, his dad's family is all around the area and his mom's side of the family, they all, uh, have their family reunions in southern Utah and people would come from Seattle to there and, uh, let's see, Nevada and in that area, Washington and Nevada to southern Utah and they would, uh, assign a different person, each time they had a reunion they'd assign a different person to be in charge of notifying everybody. [speaker001:] Oh, okay, that makes sense. Nobody's out of a lot of trouble more than once. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah and the people who are down there, like, they'll assign one person in the Utah area, one person in the Washington area and that person can call, you know, beforehand and just make sure everyone knows, too. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And then they just sort of do like a little program or, you know, something like that so [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] that everyone's sort of involved. [speaker001:] That's interesting. You sound like you've had a lot of experience with this, then. [speaker002:] Oh, well, [LAUGHTER] that's my husband's side and my mom, my mom's, or my family, uh, we all live in southern California so we just have to either or, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] give a formal invite and we're all there so, [speaker001:] Southern California's still pretty large. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah well, I mean L A, Orange County area. I mean [speaker001:] I see. [speaker002:] everyone's, you know [speaker001:] . [speaker002:] mostly not farther than an hour away. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, my experience, uh, has been limited pretty much lately to my mother's side of the family. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, years ago there was a big dispute on my dad's side and, uh, they haven't had a reunion since then. They just show up at funerals and weddings. [speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] It was pretty serious and lot of yelling [speaker002:] Wow. [speaker001:] and all that, but, anyway, my mother's side we had our, our first real reunion that I've ever gone to last summer and they had people come in from out of town and they took some rooms down at a Holiday Inn and, uh, they had some activity, they had a nice dinner planned and all of that stuff and people got up and talked about various parts of the family tree and, you know, a lot of that sort of thing. Since it was the first one that we'd had that, you could do that once. Now next time we have one, we'll have to think of something more creative to do. [speaker002:] Well, you know, that's interesting because one thing that always brings to my, uh, husband's mother's side together is, uh, they talk about the genealogy of the family tree every time and, uh, inevitably everyone is just very interested and, and they always have, you know, two or three new ones to add to the list, you know, someone's been born or [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] someone passed away or, you know, something like that and so everyone has to update their little [speaker001:] Well, have [speaker002:] books or whatever. [speaker001:] have you, do you have an interest in genealogy? [speaker002:] Uh, [lipsmack] I do, but not to, very much compared to my [speaker001:] Not a [speaker002:] mother-in-law. [speaker001:] passion, huh. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh, I suspect we'll do quite a bit more genealogy and I, I suspect we will do more of it. Uh, I found out some, about some of the relatives I didn't, you know, I, I didn't even know their names, some of the [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] two or three generations back and some of the aunts and uncles and, uh, there's a lot of things there you have to stop, they're really kind of fascinating. I found out my grandmother was one of a twin. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] And we don't even know where the twin, we have virtually no, no background on, on her [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] on the twin. [speaker002:] Is it your, your grandma's own sibling and she, [speaker001:] My grandmother's, uh, sister who would be somewhere in, in West Virginia. I'm sure she's, you know, dead now, because my grandmother died in, about twenty years ago. [speaker002:] Oh, I see. Oh so, [speaker001:] I'm, I'm quite a bit, I'm probably a lot older than you are. Uh, [speaker002:] Well, maybe, uh, they just moved away and then sort of lost contact. [speaker001:] I don't know.

[speaker001:] I'll let you go first [speaker002:] well I think I don't know how your schools work back there but we support our schools here with property taxes [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and the land owners or home owners are the ones that pay the school tax so if you're renting a house or doing anything else you're not actually contributing to the education of your children and I think that's wrong I think everybody should contribute to the education of their children even if they had to raise the sales tax by one percent then everybody going through the state would be supporting our education system so as it turns out we don't really have a tremendous education system because they don't have the money they need to run it [speaker001:] yeah I uh I spent a couple uh years down in uh Plano Texas [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh I was one of the home owners down there that got taxed to death for the uh Plano uh school system [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and uh I've you know I know that Texas doesn't have a state tax and so all the things come out of the the property taxes [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] and I was uh really shocked at the amount of taxes I ended up paying I was I was better off paying a state tax back in Maryland where than I was uh paying the uh property tax down there [speaker002:] yeah yeah you would be [speaker001:] uh what they did in Maryland to get around that is they uh they developed a renters tax solely for the purpose of paying for the services that the renters were getting including the uh educational services [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and uh the tax was administered by um the uh rental company that actually was managing the apartments so when uh long long time ago when I used to live in apartments I would pay a rent [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] payment every month and a tax payment every month [speaker002:] gee [speaker001:] and the tax payment went to pay for the services that I was getting as a a resident of that particular county [speaker002:] yeah um [speaker001:] and uh that's the way it worked here in Maryland we have uh a certain portion of your your property taxes uh goes to education but also a portion of the state tax that you pay [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] goes back into the county that you live in [speaker002:] ah [speaker001:] to pay for the educational system [speaker002:] oh well that's pretty good [speaker001:] and so it it works out nice it it it makes it so that the uh whole county now I I know the concept of counties in Texas is quite a bit different than it is here in Maryland uh like Collin County uh would only equal about maybe an eighth the size of Baltimore County here in Maryland [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] I mean the the counties are much larger you know in the the whole state of Maryland I believe there's only like uh fifteen counties [speaker002:] gee whiz [speaker001:] and so uh you know each county has their own school system an and it works out real nice um the the the flip side to this is are we getting what we're paying for and I don't believe so um a lot of things have come to head um recently and I heard a report because of uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh the emphasis that the President was putting on education [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know um him running as our education president and then finally a couple of years later getting around to doing something um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they said since they imposed the federal regulations on education in other words they came up with this federalized system where everyone in the third grade would be taught basically the same thing [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and then at the end of uh school year they would be tested and then they go into the fourth grade and everybody in the fourth grade's basically taught the same thing so when they came up with these this nationwide system of public schools [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh they gave some figures out and since it's inception uh they've the price has gone up per student the prices paid by the federal government per student has been thirty three percent [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and so they're actually spending thirty three percent and that's real dollars you know that adjusting it back to to the days you know when it started uh probably you know seventy years ago [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and what they've said is that we haven't had a thirty three percent improvement in education [speaker002:] no huh-uh [speaker001:] we've actually gone backwards [speaker002:] well they say that Texas schools are some of the lowest in the nation that our high school graduates can't even match the national average [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so you know our school system down here is no where near perfect but they keep complaining they don't have the money to do it [speaker001:] yeah well they they've been having some problems uh even here in uh like Baltimore City which is a a pretty good city good good sized city [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh they've been putting a lot of uh stress on it and of course speaking of stress the teachers are all getting stressed out from trying to you know do everything they're supposed to do and of course they've uh been cutting the teachers salaries because they say we don't have the money to do it and [speaker002:] oh yeah yep [speaker001:] all the services are costing more money and and everything uh but the uh a lot of emphasis now is being put on you know when children used to be taught you know like uh uh each child is individual you know they're not all the same [speaker002:] yeah yeah they need to take things at their own speed [speaker001:] and some students do horrible until like eighth grade some do horrible you know until they get to like tenth grade and then all of a sudden everything clicks in you know and then there are some students that you know read well at five years old [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] and you know seem to excel and so that the you know one of the things I heard proposed on uh one of the public radio stations up here was that we should go back to teaching children at their own speed some kids [speaker002:] yeah I think it'd be a lot better [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know each child has to learn at his own rate they can't keep force feeding things to each other and or you know at the kids [speaker001:] and and uh and on top of that they they make the child feel inferior [speaker002:] um-hum because he can't do it [speaker001:] because he's not as good as another kid his same age I mean it's like [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know that's ridiculous [speaker002:] and it's not that he can't do it he just can't do it quite as fast or [speaker001:] yeah and uh you know I have uh I I have five children total and I've got two out of the house already and I have I have two that are in uh eighth grade this year [speaker002:] yeah all right [speaker001:] and prior to their um when I when they were in elementary school they were identified identified as being slow [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and so they put them into special programs and then we actually held them back in fourth grade and it wasn't until the last two years um last year my uh they're they're a set of twins um a boy and a girl last year the the uh boy twin started doing real well [speaker002:] um-hum all right [speaker001:] and it it it everything started to click in for him and he knew what he n eeded to do um and this year it it happened for uh for the daughter [speaker002:] huh all right [speaker001:] she just has been [speaker002:] jumped on out there [speaker001:] really doing grea t this year and she has the right attitude towards school and everything and I think it's just a matter of everybody has to find their own path I remember when I was in school I did horrible [speaker002:] that's good yeah I did too up until ninth or tenth grade [speaker001:] up until about yeah about the seventh eighth grade I I I started to to come around and realize an and basically I got interested in math and uh never really did well in English but you know once you got interested in something [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and things started to click in place then after that you take off [speaker002:] yeah and see when I was a kid growing up and going to high school if I wanted to take a little electronics course I had a electronics course I could take but we lived out in the country and we didn't have all that [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] fancy stuff to worry about you know we had our auto shop out there and our agricultural shop and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know we had just about every thing that we needed but they don't have it anymore there's a lot of things that they don't do in school anymore our our oldest boy goes to Lubbock High down here and they go to school four and half days a week so [speaker001:] jeez [speaker002:] that's pretty weird [speaker001:] yeah it is um my children had a uh real culture shock um when we lived in Plano I guess I don't know if you've heard about the Plano school district but they're uh they really stress academics there [speaker002:] no hum [speaker001:] and uh God if your child is not an honor student well then you're something wrong with you as a parent and that that's kind of the way they are there [speaker002:] gee yeah [speaker001:] and uh when we moved back to Maryland um I moved to a uh a Baltimore County which is a northern county in Maryland [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it's basically a rural county once you get above about the half way point [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and we lived you know in the northern part of the county uh we went from a uh middle school in Texas that served fifty five square blocks to a uh middle school in Maryland that served fifty five square miles [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and it was just a complete culture shock because I mean they they're riding on the bus in the morning with uh other kids that you know are a sleep because they got up at three o'clock and were doing chores and you know it's [speaker002:] yeah I can imagine yeah yeah that would be quite a shock [speaker001:] and they had uh agricultural they had an agricultural course uh I forget what it was called uh but it goes along the the lines of industrial arts but it's agricultural and where they had to raise a small animal [speaker002:] um-hum oh like Four H then [speaker001:] had to learn how to drive a tractor they actually had to go take a driving test on the tractor I mean they just couldn't believe this and it was great they loved it [speaker002:] all right all right [speaker001:] I mean they really enjoyed the courses um and it you know it made school fun for them again because prior to that school was just a big pain a drain [speaker002:] yeah just something you do everyday [speaker001:] yeah and it was you know it was like kind of like the way we feel about going to work [speaker002:] yeah yeah just something I have to do everyday [speaker001:] but uh up here they seem to have made it uh a lot of fun for them and they they seem to really enjoy it [speaker002:] that's good our oldest boy went into school politics and made vice

[speaker001:] Kay. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] I guess we're talking about exercise, huh? [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. Well first of all I, I ha-, have to ask you how, how old you are? [speaker001:] Oh, I am twenty-seven. [speaker002:] Twenty-seven, okay. Well, I am quite a bit older than you are [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But, no. I think exercise is extremely important and I I do exercise on a regular basis. [speaker001:] You do? What type of exercise do you do? [speaker002:] Well, I do, uh, jazzercise [speaker001:] Oh you do. [speaker002:] which is an aerobic, uh, [smack] program that, are you familiar with it? [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] It's, uh, you know, a national company and we have a jazzercise center here in Plano that has classes like all day long so you can, [speaker001:] Are they different from aerobics or is it the same thing? [speaker002:] No it's really, it's an aerobic routine. Yo-, you warm up and then you have thirty minutes of aerobic activity starting, you know, slowly and then working up to, uh, you know, a high heart rate and then you gradually go down again. [speaker001:] And you do that every day or, [speaker002:] No, I only do it [throat clearing] probably two or three times a week. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] The minimum they want you to do is three times a week. [speaker001:] And this is a club or, uh, do you belong to a group? [speaker002:] [Smack] Well, it's really a [smack] I mean [NOISE] it's called a center and you buy as many classes as you want to [NOISE] at a time and then you just go in whenever you can. So, like I usually choose to go at nine thirty in the morning or a nine fifteen class or a ten thirty class in the mornings. [speaker001:] Do you go with friends or do you go alone? [speaker002:] [Smack] No, I go by myself and that's one of the frustrating things cause I can find very few people to go with me [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and most of my friends that are my age don't exercise [LAUGHTER] or they might play tennis [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and since I am not a tennis player, uh, you know, I don't get that, but I am, you know, I am between, I am in my late forties [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] so, uh, there aren't many people, you know, that want to do that. [speaker001:] Oh [very faint]. [speaker002:] Most of the people that are in the classes are young mothers. You know, with with children between the ages, [speaker001:] Oh yeah [LAUGHTER] young mothers or, [speaker002:] Young mothers. You know, young women, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] with small children [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] are the ones that I find. Well, what do you do? [speaker001:] Uh, I really don't have a routine. I like playing basketball. We just bought a new home with a basketball hoop and [speaker002:] Oh, great. [speaker001:] that's what I do every day. [speaker002:] Yeah. Do you play every day? [speaker001:] Yeah, pretty much. When my wife lets me. [speaker002:] Well, now who do you play with? Do you have friends that play with you or just, [speaker001:] No, I just shoot around by myself. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, uh, that's about it. I use to play soccer a lot in high school, but when I graduated I haven't done much. I don't have a problem. I know I have to do more aerobics, but I don't have a problem with weight. I could eat all day and not gain an ounce [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well see, that's, that's th-, really good and I think that keeps a lot, some people from exercising. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I mean, I don't have a problem with weight either, but I think I don't have a problem because I exercise. [speaker001:] You do exercise. [speaker002:] You know I mean, people are always saying to me, how do you stay thin [NOISE] and it's because I [NOISE] exercise [speaker001:] You do it [NOISE], [speaker002:] but I also watch what I eat. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You know, but you'll come, being twenty-seven, you don't really have to worry about your heart rate and that yet [speaker001:] Yeah and I [speaker002:] but as you get older you will. [speaker001:] well everyone's told me my waist line is going to expand one of these days, but [NOISE] I don't know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, it might not [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Mine, because everybody's been telling me that too and so far it hasn't happened, you know, and I, I just feel like, you know, [NOISE] you have to constantly [NOISE] weigh yourself [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and just keep an eye on it and cut back if it [talking] starts to get you know, too high. [speaker001:] Yeah, I guess I enjoy sports a lot so that's why I've kept active in that way. [speaker002:] Yeah. But you don't play any other sports but basketball? [speaker001:] Uh, basketball, volleyball, uh, too bad it's not [NOISE] really heavy as far as recreation or hobby, I do that. [speaker002:] But, do you ski? Being in Utah, I was wondering if you ski. [speaker001:] Uh, I use to, but it got too expensive, so. [speaker002:] Oh did it really? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Cause I know that skiing in Utah is, is suppose to be [static] great. [speaker001:] Yeah, a lot of people do that [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and [NOISE] but, [NOISE] well I just [sounds like] I never find the time. I had rather do other things. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, I have never skied before, but I have friends that go to Utah all the time and they think it's really [speaker001:] Oh they come up here. [speaker002:] and they ski. I guess there's a place where you can ski, well is it Tahoe? Where you ski from, no that's Nevada to California [speaker001:] That's in Nevada. [speaker002:] I guess. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Yeah, I am thinking about where you can ski over the state line. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah but, [speaker002:] But there's a fun-, there is a place in Utah called a funny name. [speaker001:] There's Snow Bird or Alta. [speaker002:] But it's like, Oh, Heavenly. Is that it? [speaker001:] Heavenly? [speaker002:] Yeah, I think it's called Heavenly. [speaker001:] Huh. I've never heard of that one. [speaker002:] You've never heard of that? [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] Well, maybe it isn't in Utah. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But they said they've skied Heavenly and [LAUGHTER] it sounded like, [LAUGHTER] you know, that they skied really well, and when they are actually talking about a place. It's kind of funny. [speaker001:] Do they exercise much or, I mean for skiing? I know when I went, you can get sore easily but, [speaker002:] Oh yeah. You can get really sore. I know you, I mean I've talked to people, but most of these people ski enough so that they don't get sore. [speaker001:] Oh yeah. is one or two timer a year if I do go on them and I am really sore after. [speaker002:] And then, is it your quadriceps that are the worst? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] In your legs and, [speaker001:] My legs really, really ache. [speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah. [speaker001:] But, that's, [NOISE] I am using [NOISE] muscles that I have never used before. [speaker002:] Well, and it's strange that you can do, like I did aerobics, you know, all the time and then I went horseback riding and still I was so sore and I couldn't get over,

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] perhaps uh maybe we were a little unsure because we were looking at something broader you know nationwide worldwide or something maybe we should look city wide [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] you know or school board wide or you know what I'm saying narrow the topic a little and see if if we don't uh recognize some trends there [speaker001:] oh okay okay [speaker002:] um one thing that I definitely have noticed in our area as far as the school system at least uh token wise I'm not sure that uh really truly uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh we're effectively counting but at at least for a show we're involving more parents in input and [speaker001:] more parent input [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um like I say this all may be in name only [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] kind of thing at this point but at least it's a step in the right direction I think [speaker001:] well do you have school age children [speaker002:] I have five school age children [speaker001:] oh so you're you're definitely more involved at least in the schools school system my children are grown so [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] well we uh we try to keep abreast of it uh of some of the things that are that are going on and we've uh we've just gone through some city elections here in in Plano for our city council [speaker001:] for city council do you all have a mayor or [speaker002:] yes yes [speaker001:] you do yeah we we do in Houston too [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh Whitmire is is she still the [speaker001:] yeah yeah she's still she's still there but it looks like uh she may have some the opposition or they're they're trying to beat them she's been in for so long so we may hear some interesting things about her before election time comes up [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] this time but she's uh uh okay I don't know is would a trend does it seem to be we're having more minority type people women in government [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] as far as in the local like our our our our our chief of police is a woman our our mayor is a woman our superintendent superintendent of of schools was a woman she's just now you know been pushed out [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] but I don't know if you would consider that a trend or not [speaker002:] oh I definitely think it's a trend uh you know this morning on the way to school we just uh it just so happened that we saw a lot of buses and I usually don't have all my children in the bus in the car at once but I'd taken them all to the chiropractor this morning one big fell swoop and then we were going on to school but just a tad late long enough for the buses to be going back and [speaker001:] you uh [speaker002:] the kids said gosh look how many of these bus drivers are women and I said you know that really is a good indication of some of the jobs that have been [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know that trend that has swung you know one profession that you know there are a lot of women now and I think it's good because [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] those women sometimes pick up on those kids emotional needs and might you know be aware of those things coming or going from school where maybe the men don't always you know they're just there to drive the bus you know and the women are more [speaker001:] well I saw uh the the superintendent that we've had was being considered for the superintendent in the Boston area [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and they just she just lost out to someone from the Dallas area like assistants somebody who's an one of the assistants in your I'm not sure what the name maybe it was another woman [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] must have been from uh DIS [speaker001:] maybe so yeah maybe so [speaker002:] but I definitely think think that administratively in the schools women are are a show of force now that we did not see even five years ago certainly not you know ten years ago up to that point they were allowed to be teachers secretaries nurses so forth even your uh heads of uh you know like your food services that kind of thing [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] your your deans you know they weren't women um you know that's [speaker001:] lots of school principals seem to be women in the at least in the Houston area [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] I've noticed over over the years that my kids were in school [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh more and more [speaker001:] fact I don't even remember any uh school that they went to that there there wasn't a women principal from elementary school on up [speaker002:] on [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] oh that's excellent excellent you know that they're getting a chance [speaker001:] so yeah but but then again you know it would be nice to have more you know the majority of teachers seem to be women it would be nice to have but the problem is the pay scale probably it's because you know women go into teaching probably not so much for the money but uh for the satisfaction and that's just what they want to want to do whereas uh I think if you're a college professor [speaker002:] the type of uh [speaker001:] probably the pay is much better and you tend to see more I think you see more [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] well I don't know it seems like there there are a lot of a lot more men at least in the the college level so [speaker002:] well and that comes once again you know is that you can teach in elementary school you can even substitute in elementary school in the state of Texas without a uh without a certificate [speaker001:] you can teach [speaker002:] yes you can substitute teach without a certificate or a degree [speaker001:] substitute right [speaker002:] and then you know work on that and if you want to work on up but you still can make good money you know [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] part-time part-time money as a substitute whereas you know to teach on college level you have to have a PhD almost always sometimes you can get by on a fellowship program or something where you might be teaching but [speaker001:] uh-huh do you do you have any idea how much uh uh a substitute teacher would make per day I'm sure they pay them by the day [speaker002:] uh-huh here in Plano they pay about fifty dollars a day [speaker001:] well I mean that's good part-time money [speaker002:] that's good part-time money for but it's not career money [speaker001:] yeah but it's not no [speaker002:] you know but it uh [speaker001:] course it you know [speaker002:] you know for a part-time situation [speaker001:] just somebody [speaker002:] and once you've gotten your foot in the door for several years substituting and then take on a degree you know you're pretty well assured of a of a job in the system eventually that you know that you've been subbing in a lot of times you know I think that's uh I think uh one thing that uh that we're seeing you know a trend in uh politics is that our cities are taking a lot more responsibility for uh citizens becoming involved in the environment uh [speaker001:] yes it's true [speaker002:] recycling uh clean up programs refurbishing you know historical and and uh park land [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um your uh city you know where they they adopt a highway kinds of things those are becoming more and more [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] government uh originated and not just private enterprise [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know generated [speaker001:] which I think is something that has to happen in order to [speaker002:] to make people do it probably [speaker001:] to make it happen right [speaker002:] which you know I thought Texas would be the last place to ever um get people to do those things voluntarily and I think their don't mess with Texas campaign has been very effective because Texans don't like to be told what to do they're very proud of their state so they've psychologically they've done a number on us there [speaker001:] well a couple weeks ago I was at the Houston International Festival which is you know in the downtown area and [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] uh the friend a friend of mine that was with me uh commented on on how clean uh you know when you have an event like that of course everybody you know there's just food and everything else and of course they have the the you know the places to throw the stuff but you really they were really use they really use it [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] because in the past you know it seemed like I can remember people just just throw it down they don't care but you're you're finally getting to the point where it's just kind of second nature to find some place to to throw it [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] uh can you remember driving down the highway I could as a kid you know you just get rid of it you roll the window down and you throw it out but you wouldn't [speaker002:] well my mother was always real picky about that kind of thing I think I'd probably have my fingers cut off if I'd ever thrown out a candy wrapper or anything but [speaker001:] well you're probably younger than I am because I you know um but I can remember uh probably probably uh in the early seventies uh going out on you know taking our boat out and stuff like that and looking for places for trash bins and stuff and that was very new at that time you know [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum that that [speaker001:] so it's uh yeah it really hasn't been that long I mean it's probably twenty years or so that you know it really began [speaker002:] yes yes [speaker001:] so yeah [speaker002:] I agree for it to and to be adopted and funded [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know by cities and you think the incredible amount of you know money that we vote for our cities to spend on these kinds of things so you know it's definitely uh you know you have to consider that a political trend because we're the ones voting for those people you know to that are in favor of those kinds of programs and make them you know campaign issues [speaker001:] that's true [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] how about the representation that you have on the city council is it uh you know we're we're I think we're to vote going to have increased the number so that we will be able to represent uh like the Mexican Americans don't feel like they've had enough representation and stuff like that [speaker002:] uh-huh well of course Dallas is in a great upheaval right now over the fourteen one and ten four one you know programs and it's you know going back and forth between courts to you know [speaker001:] what is that I'm [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] have to be plead ignorant here [speaker002:] the um

[speaker001:] I guess we're supposed to talk about what's being done about recycling. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] Well, lots, right? [speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Finally. [speaker002:] Really, what, what do you do, now? [speaker001:] Well, we have saved our newspapers for years and years [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because the, uh, Boy Scouts [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] our boys have been involved in have, uh, had a huge recycling bin, [lipsmack] over at Resurrection Lutheran Church [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, [lipsmack] so we've done that for quite some time, but since the price of paper has gone down like it's about a fifth of what it used to be [speaker002:] Oh, really? [speaker001:] so the Boy Scout troop quit doing it when the City took it over. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] So now we just put ours out for the City of Plano. Do you live in Plano? [speaker002:] Yes, I do. [speaker001:] Okay, yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah, and I'm so glad when they brought out those recycling bins. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Have you had yours now? [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Although just, just about a week ago some of my volunteer mothers that, uh, work in the library for me said they hadn't gotten theirs. [speaker002:] Oh, that's why I asked you. I guess it * Why treated as a slash unit when it continues in B.28? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know, it does go in cycles, * I would treat this as a continuation of B.26 utt2 and label it " and not everyone got theirs right away. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] And I, I was so relieved because I've been making a real concerted effort, make, you know, recycling the aluminum and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] the newspapers and even got into plastic because Wal-Mart collected it. [speaker001:] Right, yeah, we used [speaker002:] And, uh [speaker001:] to take ours there. [speaker002:] my garage was just getting overwhelmed. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I know. [speaker002:] And, of course, I didn't go weekly, so it became quite a big [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] thing, and, uh, [speaker001:] Right, I'm really glad they do it. Uh, yeah, I do news, mostly newspapers and, uh, plastic two liter diet Coke bottles [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yes, yeah. [speaker001:] And aluminum cans some, but I don't use as many of those. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I guess the ones that are hard to convince yourself to do are the ones that you have to really, that are really dirty that you have to wash out [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, well, I found out after washing out many a peanut butter jar that they're not a recycling number one or two. [speaker001:] Uh, ha. [speaker002:] Uh, ha, so it was wasting a lot of time. * Why no slash? B's next utterance is a backchannel to A.49. [speaker001:] Wasting all your time and effort and, [speaker002:] Yeah. * Should be independent slash unit [speaker001:] Putting it in there. [speaker002:] Thinking I was safe in buying those jars as far as the environment was concerned. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] But, uh, [lipsmack] you know, but it, it's not that hard now that I've got this [speaker001:] Got your routine down. [speaker002:] system under control. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Well, I guess there are some places, uh, in the north, in particular that, uh, have a real definite way of encouraging you to recycle because they charge you, let's see, they charge you for your garbage pick up by the weight. [speaker002:] Uh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] So if you recycle things, of course, then you don't have all that weight in there. [speaker002:] Yeah, I do find that I don't have as much to throw away [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] because [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] all the bulky things are, are [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] being tossed in [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] with the recycling. And, uh, I don't know what they could do more of exactly around here right now other than, uh, [lipsmack] what are some of the things they don't recycle. Oh, one thing I thought about the other day were batteries, just everyday regular batteries. [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] Supposedly, you know, leak and, and contaminate [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] the landfills and, yet, what am I going to do when I have a couple double A batteries to toss out. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, right. [speaker002:] And they don't take, [speaker001:] Probably going to throw them in your trash [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's what happens because, [speaker001:] Well, there are places that take car batteries, but I wonder if they would take, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I mean, not that it would [LAUGHTER], kind of a pain to, you know, drive over somewhere special just for that, for two little tiny batteries but, [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, but I think the city one could possibly look into that or something. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's true. [speaker002:] Uh, if they've got these bins for all the other little items, I'm sure if p-, people will have batteries, uh, you know, quite often [speaker001:] Right, that's true. [speaker002:] to, to toss out. [speaker001:] Uh, when I was home those few days around Thanksgiving and the, uh, the truck came by, well, we all ran out to watch it because, you know, we'd never [LAUGHTER] really seen it [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] pick up our stuff and one thing I thought was interesting was that the driver had something on his belt that he, uh, scanned across the little bar code [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] on our bin [speaker002:] Oh, is that right? [speaker001:] as soon as he took the stuff and he just pulled this thing kind of out of his pocket and just, you know, scanned it, so I don't know why, what that was reading it for [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] but, uh [speaker002:] Registering our garbage [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] they must be trying to keep track of, you know, who is doing it, or what, I guess. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I don't know. Another, [speaker002:] Wouldn't it be nice if you could get a credit back at the end of the year [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Ooh, for those who are really cooperating. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Now, that would encourage it. [speaker002:] Well, except I know it would just not be cost effective. They've already got all this money out on hiring, uh, getting the trucks and hiring people to work them. I'm sure they couldn't afford [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] that. But [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] uh, [speaker001:] But the garbage, uh, now there is just one garbage man that comes [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] on the truck instead of two. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] So that's interesting. Uh, also, slightly off the subject, but our, our big green garbage thing got stolen. [speaker002:] Oh, it did? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] [Breathing] Gosh. [speaker001:] And we c-, [breathing] we called the City and, uh, [lipsmack] they, they brought us a new one and they did not charge us. And they said that between three and four hundred have been stolen. [speaker002:] Oh, my goodness. [speaker001:] Isn't that sad? [speaker002:] It is sad. [speaker001:] You know. And just, [speaker002:] You know, they paid for those things anyway. [speaker001:] Oh, and they must be, [speaker002:] Or, our taxes do. [speaker001:] Yeah, really expensive. I mean, of course, we were hoping we weren't, we weren't going to have to pay for it, you know [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but, I mean, what would somebody do with them.

[speaker001:] All righty. Uh, I guess our topic today is air pollution. And we are to just discuss what substances do you think that contribute most to air pollution, as well as what society can do to improve the air quality of the atmosphere around us. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Um, does your work entitle, uh, anything of environmental along these lines? [speaker002:] Me, I'm in the legal department and, um, we do have, uh, a group of attorneys who handle our environmental issues. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I don't know too much about the air pollution thing. I do know for other types of pollution like the toxic waste and such that T I has to dispose of that we normally put in the ground, you know, we're coming up with a, uh, a new solution. We have been finding a lot of toxic places to dump and we just transport to these places. But after awhile it always seems that the, um, oh, the site starts to leak and then you have to clean it up and such. But the new idea is to take everything up to Sherman, and we're going have that, you know, incineration place up there and, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] dump everything there. And supposedly that facility will not generate air pollutants from what I've heard, that everything would be in, in, you know, a confined kind of incinerator and just burn it all up. And that we won't be polluting the air. I'm sure we have to have, uh, permits, you know, for that place. And that there's, you know, limits as to what we can, uh, let, you know, go into the air. [speaker001:] Yeah. It's, uh, hav-, uh, uh, well, I work in, I work in environmentals, uh, projects right now. [speaker002:] Oh, okay. [speaker001:] And so the Sherman deal is, um, uh, [LAUGHTER] lost a lot of hair over that project. [speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh, what we run into, um, is we have the Texas Air Control Board, T A C B, that send out, uh, jurisdictions under which we have to, uh, uh, reply to. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And a lot of their rules and regulation aren't real clear, so we have our manager of environmental, who assist the T A C B, which is located in Austin, in writing and, hey, look what we've done here at T I. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, we are presently, uh, in receipt of a site permit, which will allow us to, um, [lipsmack] uh, this is our side a-, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] allow to have certain emissions up to a certain tonnage. It's in, [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] in, in tons per year. Um, and so, w-, w-, you know, what we do to make contributions so that, basically, we go and do things like put in high-tech scrubber systems, uh, that, uh, scrub out the, N O X and, uh, V O C's and, and ammonia compounds, uh, like all the acids, to a certain level. We, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] are very, um, aware of the opacity, which is the thickness of a stack emissions. So if you don't see anything coming out of a stack the opacity is zero or twenty or thereabouts. And so what we go through is, uh, if you see it smoking there's a problem. And having worked with some of the legal folks very closely, uh, it becomes a real issue, especially, when it's smoking and you have to get it fixed el pronto. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] As you know, they, they're allowed to come on site, the federaldes, anytime they want, drive through, and see, and inspect. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] So it's a full time, uh, everybody has their home phone number type of job. Um, [speaker002:] Now is that place built or you're still on the makings of it? [speaker001:] The Sherman facility, we are still in the, closer too, but still have a little bit of, um, finalization to do. Right. It's been pitched to the Sherman City Council with, um, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] open arms, as well as the public. We had open forum and, and, uh, uh, Tom Jones, our environmental, corporate environmental guys handle the project. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, its real, uh, going real well. I think it's matter, just a matter of fund, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] funds right now as I understand it. Uh, but it's, uh, it's something else. Yeah. they're, they're, they're in the same issue. We were hoping on burning a lot of the effluent up there. Uh, because the, the system is setup where it won't have any emissions. You're correct. It will have something coming out of the stackhouse it was, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] it was human nature. But it won't have can any, uh, any bad stuff. So, uh, I think T I, we spend, of all the major semiconductor firms, we probably put safety and environmental on the utmost, foremost, uh, uh, first thing we always look at. And we probably put more money into the systems and engineering behind the system of any other firm I know of. We eat and sleep the stuff, everything we do over here. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] and, uh, it's an interesting job. But um, [speaker002:] Well, I know from some of the sites that we've had, uh, quite a list of cites that have gone bad and you have to clean up. And, you know the law now is the super fund and anybody who's contributed toxic waste, no matter if you were somebody that eventually, you know, uh, damaged the ground or not. Uh, everybody has to contribute and it's been a lot of big bucks when we've gotten, uh, gotten pulled into these super fund deals to clean it up and, you know, mega bucks to, uh, you know take everything out and redo it and, you know, fill in some other area and, um, certainly, it would to have a better solution, like the Sherman facility than, um, just letting it go in the ground. Because eventually, you know, it, it seems that no matter what they do, if they put it in oil drums and then seal it in some kind of cement lined, uh, dump area. It still only in time starts to leak out. [speaker001:] Possibly. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] There, there was one site that they cleaned up and then the new place leaked again. [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. I'm familiar with that one. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] We have, we have stuff that's very interesting, uh, we have hoods, we have duckwork and all those type of interesting pieces of equipment where, um, they have, um, that we sample [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and it may have over, uh, a certain emission levels, this is on the solid side, and so we take it and, uh, we can't deep well inject something like that because it's a solid. And we mix it with concrete [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and actually, um, potash, per se, and concrete and then actually put it in the ground. But not so, not in a hazardous waste location because it's, basically, a concrete slab. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] It was totally legal. But the cost of doing this is astronomical, [speaker002:] Um, [speaker001:] they actually show you what duckwork and things. And so we were, uh, very, very, uh, cognizance of, and aware of all these types of, uh, expenditures because it could get very expensive. But I think we, uh, you know, we do all kinds of things to make the, the world a better place to live, you know, I think some of the folks that aren't aware of it will be surprised at how much effort and energy is put into doing that. I really would. Um, [lipsmack] I've enjoyed speaking with you, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] This has been an interesting topic. Uh, [lipsmack] I was one of the, I was responsible for all the planning and engineering over the corporate, or in the north building [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, you were? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Oh, okay. [speaker001:] So, uh, I hope you like your office. [speaker002:] Yes. Yes. It's a heck of a lot different. And we used to be really embarrassed about the gray metal desk. We were about the only, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] place in, you know, T I that had the gray metal desk. People used to come and laugh and go, gee, I hadn't seen one of those ten, fifteen years. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Glad to see y'all taken care of. Well, the, uh, I think what changed everything and, uh, is, uh, y'all were, y'all were the only ones that make any money for TI, here in the last ten years, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] We, [speaker001:] Ju-, [speaker002:] finally got a little respect. Nobody thought of us as a profit center before. [speaker001:] Exactly. And that's, um, when, when you start, when you start paying your way, uh, you know, Jerry takes a different outlook towards you guys. [speaker002:] Right. Right. [speaker001:] I was just, [speaker002:] Not just overhead. [speaker001:] Exactly. I've enjoyed speaking with you. [speaker002:] You too. [speaker001:] See you later. Bye-bye. [speaker002:] Bye.

[speaker002:] uh all right I had to register us in there [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] uh hopefully you're a basketball fan [speaker001:] excuse me [speaker002:] hopefully you're a basketball fan [speaker001:] yeah I'm from Indiana [speaker002:] great I'm glad you are I'm not I I I could care about any of it you know but go ahead I I would like to talk about uh maybe college basketball I I like to see it uh be more of an amateur sport I'd like to see it turn back to like the Southwest Conference down here I would like to see Texas and all the teams uh since we're supposed to talk about specific teams I would like to see them turn back to where the college player plays for four years and they're not they're not semi pro and just go on and are stolen by the the NBA the the League you know in three years plus I'd like to see them to be true athletes where they're they're taking a regular [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] college course you know I'd like to see they didn't ask that but they're talking about college teams I you know since you're being you can talk for hours go ahead you you you if you like sports go right ahead with this one [speaker001:] yeah yeah um well I know like what you just said um Purdue had to had to uh their best player this years you know averaged twenty points a game they had to make him sit the bench and actually kicked him off the team because um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] his uh grades even though they passed Big Ten standings and they passed you know NC double A they weren't they did not pass um Purdue requirements and so [speaker002:] now that's surprising that they uh that they have better requirements that's good [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that's what I like to see go ahead I'm all for that [speaker001:] and see so he was treated like all the rest of students you know [speaker002:] that's great [speaker001:] and and so um you know their very best player they probably lost over half their games because you know by twenty twenty points was what he averaged um and so you know he had to sit you know he was kicked off the team and then they've got three players top you know recruiting class this year that are going to have to be well the the prep school they go to before they can play because they aren't smart enough you know it's just sad because I mean Purdue even though they're one of the few schools that really uh [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] stress academics they're really suffering you know and [speaker002:] oh I I agree I I think that that there's a lot of inconsistencies uh uh when some conference uh players come from outside of Texas you know and and play us here uh they're obviously plus practicing sixty hours a week you know and and there's no consistency seems to me [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] that like Purdue uh uh when they're trying a student athlete is spending so many hours in class he only has twenty twenty five whatever hours he has to spend on practice he should be playing they all should be playing another team that that has about twenty hours to practice a week but uh you there are teams that practices sixty hours a week they're not going to class at all [speaker001:] yeah like [speaker002:] I mean that's that's what I mean by semi pro there's too many semi pros in college and and I think they ought to get rid of that [speaker001:] yeah that's what happened to this guy I mean he was uh he didn't go to class and so they just said you know you can't make the grades you're going to have to see you later [speaker002:] well I'm all for I'm all for the oh baseball has a uh a uh minor league system and I think that the football and basketball they asked us to talk about basketball should you know let let them go have a semi pro team but I think I'd like to see college athletes let's talk about college basketball I like I like that if any basketball that I like I like that I I don't I don't like the pros at all [speaker001:] yeah I don't either it's [speaker002:] uh the high scoring there's no defense it seems like and they just kind of score a hundred and twenty five points you know the other team scores hundred twenty two you know and I don't really uh get much out of that [speaker001:] yeah um yeah it is fun to watch some real disciplined teams play in a in college [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I saw Princeton I think it was or Harvard play this year and they're they're like all white and their starting guard had SAT scores of fifteen hundred [speaker002:] oh it did um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and it was so funny to watch them play against the other teams because it was like they played so much smarter and more disciplined I don't know if they won very many games but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I don't know their style of play was so much different from some of the teams that just run and gun [speaker002:] yeah yeah I like high school football which again again is is not the subject but that's so much fun to watch because they're they're the the pure amateurs you know and there's no money involved you go to college you don't really know it it loses it somewhere [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] uh whatever sport it is if they're really putting putting a lot of money in these players let's face it ninety percent are being paid so I'd like to see college basketball and all the other sports go back to being amateurs I I don't care about seeing the best players in the world play I like to see uh the people going to Texas just play and the ones that are in class and and like to see athletes uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh or students students fellow students like myself you know to to play the game I I in fact I like amateur sports I I don't I don't see it has to be I don't think that college football football and or or basketball should have to be semi pro you know [speaker001:] yeah yeah it's [speaker002:] I wish it'd return to the to good old days of the amateur and everybody play that's what I like everybody should play you know [speaker001:] I'm kind of racist I guess when I say uh I like to see the white guys do well you know instead of the run and gun all the time [speaker002:] yeah well again I'd just like to see the the true athlete the student true true true student athlete play basketball you know I don't like to see the ones that aren't have no intention of going to class uh [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] you know and again just picking a school uh Texas uh is is usually not the best team you know because the other teams are I'm sure practice a lot more and uh SMU down here [speaker001:] in fact [speaker002:] in in footballs been trying to get back uh to having true student student student athletes and and that's what I think is a lot of fun [speaker001:] there's just so much pressure on the schools I think to win though you know that [speaker002:] to win and get and money yeah [speaker001:] yeah and you know if it's like if they don't win they don't get any money so it's and and the school suffers [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] which is kind of bad but that's just how it always is [speaker002:] yeah I always thought that college university was to to for an education and then sports sports of course is part of the education I don't think that sports has to make a lot of money or you do away with it I don't know why they don't keep fencing and all that you know and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and and they seem to be there's articles in the Time magazine and all that about whether it be basketball or anything else if it's not making money then we'll do away with it well that's that's not I thought it was you know so that you give them an education of that particular discipline [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I and I I just think that amateur sports should stay in universities that's where it's at and I I'm sure saddened to see I think it was Wisconsin or somewhere they were getting rid of fencing and a couple of other things I don't know what it was and it just seems so sad to have to only rely on [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] you know college football is that all they're going to have to make money you know plus I didn't think that was the objective was to make money but it seems like it is [speaker001:] yeah huh it really is I know there's a lot of pressure on schools to have a winning program [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] to get the best athletes so they can keep their seats full [speaker002:] um-hum you went to Indiana University University oh Purdue okay [speaker001:] uh Purdue yeah [speaker002:] well good uh you're you're a TIer up in Sherman oh very good [speaker001:] so uh-huh are you from Dallas area [speaker002:] yeah yeah I'm in the facilities down here down here in Dallas [speaker001:] yeah I guess football is the big sport down here isn't it [speaker002:] uh certainly high school football and college football but again high high school football uh is just so much fun to watch because uh [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] uh you know just not everybody plays of course but they're still uh it's good and it's still you know the kids and there's absolutely no money involved whatsoever and you know they're going to class you know [speaker001:] yeah you heard of Damon [speaker002:] it it's just real amateur sports [speaker001:] have you heard of Damon Bailey [speaker002:] hum-um [speaker001:] the IU uh white guard that plays well last year when he was in high school uh [speaker002:] hum-um [speaker001:] they drew a crowd of like forty one thousand for the state finals when he played [speaker002:] is that right that's uh I never has been in a basketball uh football game in high school that had that many [speaker001:] yeah yeah so that's uh I mean that's pretty big like he's from Indiana and he plays for Indiana now [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh Indiana State seems to be a lot bigger than pro basketball up there the Pacers don't really draw that big of a crowd but you know the college the high school games I mean that seems seems to be the big attraction and college [speaker002:] well my office mate here Earl he he goes to all the Maverick games and he loves that he he would be this would be great question for him uh to talk about basketball like he's got I'm looking at his calendar he's got all over the place uh and he goes to a lot of the Maverick games and everything and but I I I can't get interested at all zero I I listen to him and occasionally I'll watch them on channel eleven but uh gee I can't uh more than five minutes of a basketball game just seems about that's it of uh uh pro anyway uh of [speaker001:] yeah seems like you could set the st the score at a hundred and then give them five minutes to play and then it'd be the same result you know because they they start they shoot so much and then the last [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] what five minutes they decide who's going to be the winner I guess [speaker002:] um-hum yeah I'm surprised a little bit when you're talking about basketball how some players work and Mavericks had oh two players this year that they got rid of last year I'll think of them in a minute Perkins Sam Perkins can't think of the other one they're both [speaker001:] Tarpley is he one Tarpley [speaker002:] pardon me yeah Tarpley and they both left this past year and both of them were on were on play-off teams uh so they they benefitted tremendously by by leaving the Mavericks [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and Sam Perkins here uh he's one guy I did follow from think he was in Virginia I can't think of what school he went to but from I guess he's been here about five six seven years in the pros and he was he never quite achieved the you know the super stardom that he had in in in college but uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] basketball they have a nice I don't know if you've been down to the sports for Reunion Arena it's really a nice uh certainly the

[speaker001:] Jay, um, my kids are, are both in college, um, and I'd, I played a fairly active part in helping them decide where to go. On the other hand, they really decided themselves. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, what, what kind of experience did you have? [speaker002:] Well, I, uh, [breathing] one girl went in, in state and has graduated, and then, uh, that was, uh, you know, that was her choice pretty much where she wanted to go [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I have, uh, one, out of, two out of state, both in Missouri, and, um, I teach, uh, in a college, and so I they had heard me talk about it, and for years, that I didn't think it really made too much difference where they went for their undergraduate. Uh, so, that was [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] pretty much, uh. [speaker001:] I see, well, I, may, maybe I'm wrong, but I think it makes a big difference in terms of finding a school that is sort of right for the child in terms of his or her happiness and, [speaker002:] Oh, oh, if they, if they're content there, [speaker001:] and, and the appropriate support environment and things like that. [speaker002:] I mean as far as the education, as far as looking at the degree at the end, that, uh, it's very little difference is paid [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] to it, where you get that bachelor's. Uh, if it's a halfway decent school [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] they should be happy naturally, and if they can get, uh, um, two out of, let's see, my son got a full total scholarships [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and so there's, uh, there's plenty of scholarships out there, and so people should be advised to look for those, and, um, [speaker001:] Did, did you play a, a strong role in helping them pick schools or [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] did you just sort of say listen to your guidance counselors and, [speaker002:] Well, they, uh, I went, we went around, my son was a, graduated from a Jesuit high school [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and so he, he was pretty much looking for a Jesuit university, and so there [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, that was limited to five or six different places and, um, so he's in Saint Louis U, and I guess I played a role in that. I, I just sort of, uh, let them, um, you know, they'd all been, uh [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] pretty efficient as far as studies and, uh, so I didn't have that much to do, they just, uh [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] they just knew they wanted to go to college, and I, you know, helped them get there as far as [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] traveling with them to look at different [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] places. We did do that, and I would suggest a person always goes and looks at the school before they sign up. [speaker001:] Yeah, I think that's a great idea, I mean, that, [speaker002:] Some people don't do it, and then they get there and hate it, or whatever, so [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] if it's possible. [speaker001:] It's, it seemed expensive at the time you're doing it, but, but the [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] compared to the, the total decision it's nothing. [speaker002:] I think in the short run it is expensive. In the long run it's very, uh, reasonable [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] if the person, my daughter has been in, in Missouri for a second year, now she's coming home at the end of the semester [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] [Inhaling] so, uh, you know, she's already twenty-one. She started late. So that's, you know, strictly up to her, and, uh, she'll finish down here, uh, uh, finish this year down here and then decide what she's going to do next year. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] It'll save me a lot of money because I'm not going to have to pay out of state tuition [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] but again, that's her decision [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] so, uh, but I have so many students in my classes that have dropped out and come back, and they're much better students at twenty-five, twenty-six, may, twenty-eight. So, you know, I don't, I never have pushed them. I just say that education is important, you should do it, uh, but, uh, they have to do the work [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] so, uh. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, back, back to this visiting thing, I mean, I found that my kids had no conception what college was really like [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and, and that the process of going around to a few schools with them really helped them understand [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and being able to go with them to so-, at least some of them [speaker002:] Oh, I think so. [speaker001:] gave me a chance to explain things to them and to, uh, in reference to what we had seen. [speaker002:] And also I'm opposed to the, to the size. They've just gotten so huge, and so my daughter first looked at a place that was forty thousand, see that's just too many. [speaker001:] Good grief [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Ended up going to where I used to go, and that was twenty-five hundred when I went there, it's twenty-one thousand, now it's too big. [speaker001:] Good grief. [speaker002:] So, [speaker001:] What is twenty-one thousand? [speaker002:] Pardon? [speaker001:] What school is that? [speaker002:] It's Southwest Missouri State University [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, it was twenty-five hundred when I went there forty years ago, and, uh, my son's in a school about seven thousand, and that's, that's not bad [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I teach in a school about eight thousand, and that's, that's even a little large [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] but it's much better than twenty-one thousand. But they do have to visit, and if, if the parent can point out all the different places to look for [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] for scholarships, and then, oh, those rating, uh, the magazines and all those things are doing the ratings now and everything, I don't think it hurts to look at them [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] I don't put that much stock in them, but [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] probably fine just to compare. [speaker001:] Helps to at least set up [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] range of things to look at. [speaker002:] If they, you know, uh, they need to,

[speaker001:] so do you fish [speaker002:] oh yeah my dad has a lake cabin and so we go there for the small lake uh just outside of the Dallas Fort Worth area it takes us about three hours to get there and we go and we fish and we catch a bunch of junk nothing nothing to talk about for the most part but it's fun [speaker001:] uh from a boat or from shore [speaker002:] from the dock from shore [speaker001:] oh that's nice uh mostly catfish or [speaker002:] oh mostly we catch carp if we're doing good we catch a catfish or two once in a while and you know we go ahead and eat those but we've never caught enough to really have what you'd call a fish fry what we normally do is just uh go ahead and clean it up and then uh you know put it in a bag and freeze it and and somebody takes it home and eats it then when there's just a couple people instead of a whole crowd usually there's a pretty good crowd there so we don't ever catch enough to eat carp is usually pretty much fun because I've caught up to about an eight pound carp on a little you know a little pole with twenty pound test line and that that's a pretty good fight so that's a lot of fun [speaker001:] yeah a real light line real light rig well that sounds like fun [speaker002:] yeah they fight hard [speaker001:] fish in Colorado so different than that mostly trout [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] in the mountains [speaker002:] yeah and in the rivers and stuff [speaker001:] yeah yeah mountain streams and rivers [speaker002:] are they good to eat [speaker001:] uh yeah very yeah there isn't much there you know [speaker002:] oh you mean size wise they're not very big [speaker001:] um by and large no but but they're big fun [speaker002:] yeah well I've been is that mostly uh fly fishing when you're doing that or are you fly fishing or are you using a bobber [speaker001:] what I I I'm a fly fisherman [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah I I cast a ways I'm not highly proficient but it's fun [speaker002:] I've never even tried that my if I don't have a reel with a button on it I tend to get so much backlash it's not worth the trouble [speaker001:] well let me explain fly fly fishing to you then you're not casting a weight on the end of the line [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you're casting the weight of the line [speaker002:] with the little thing on the end yeah I thought it had a weight [speaker001:] yeah well the fly on the end weighs nothing it weighs less than the line [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] so what you do is you strip off oh four five six little rolls coils of line into your hand [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and you whip the line [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] as you whip it over your head or side to side [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you slowly feed out more and more [speaker002:] hum so you're fishing downstream so it will carry some [speaker001:] well no no you fish upstream [speaker002:] oh you fish upstream [speaker001:] right and then you let it carry it downstream [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and then you reel it in and you do it again [speaker002:] you hope that they think it's a bug and [speaker001:] yeah exactly jump at it [speaker002:] and eat it yeah [speaker001:] uh from what I'm seeing and hearing and all the the big pattern that's really looking forward for spring is the grub pattern [speaker002:] that's a fish [speaker001:] no no it it looks like a grub yeah okay whenever you yeah a lure a fly [speaker002:] oh it's a it's a lure I see [speaker001:] whenever you have a something that looks like something else [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and it's a fly you call it a pattern [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] all right uh you know there's bumble bee patterns [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] there's excuse me uh there's bumble patterns there's mosquito patterns there's wasp patterns there's grub patterns uh [speaker002:] um did someone just come up with this design and and you're going to make one for yourself or are you going to buy it [speaker001:] uh you can buy them uh I've got some and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] they seemed to have been hitting real heavy on it in Fall [speaker002:] oh it's just that that just happens to be what the fish like this year huh [speaker001:] yeah yeah you know how that changes [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] the phase of the moon and [speaker002:] I guess so we tend to use just bait and a few lures but bait tends to work the best just some blood bait [speaker001:] yeah yeah I I yeah I'm from west Texas [speaker002:] oh are you where are you from oh I'm from Midland [speaker001:] yeah Lubbock oh another west Texan [speaker002:] I went to college at Tech so you've been out to Buffalo Gap fishing [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] yeah I've been up there [speaker001:] it [speaker002:] I didn't catch anything but I've been up there [speaker001:] it it's kind of nice way to get away from everything for the day [speaker002:] yeah it's fun it's lazy take a picnic lunch I used to do that with my dad every once in a while we'd go out on a Saturday and just spend the day before it got too hot [speaker001:] yeah it's well there you fish mornings and evenings [speaker002:] yeah yeah we do most of our fishing at night [speaker001:] and nights yeah [speaker002:] just from the heat of it all that's one advantage you've certainly got on us [speaker001:] it at times gets incredibly hot here [speaker002:] it does I've only been up there once in the summer well no I've been up there twice in the summer but both times it was really pleasant in fact it snowed on us in in gosh when was that we were in Mesa Verde Park and it was like the end of June it was just before July fourth [speaker001:] June oh [speaker002:] and it was twenty eight twenty nine degrees we were out in this silly tent with regular little sleeping bags not knowing any better and here it went and it froze and it snowed on us we did not know what to do about it [speaker001:] yeah fishing is not just just dragging fish out of the water it's it's a total experience you know getting out in nature and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] hearing the crickets and listening to the birds and seeing the squirrels and camping out and eating out of doors and [speaker002:] uh-huh do you yeah do you have to do you wear waders when you fish [speaker001:] uh I probably ought to I just freeze [speaker002:] oh goodness it must be a little bit cold [speaker001:] yeah yeah well you know ankle deep or standing on the bank and slipping it out there [speaker002:] that's cold water around there [speaker001:] slipping it out there [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] you know I always intend to just stand on the bank and just kind of slip it out there and [speaker002:] do you have any oh I see [speaker001:] you know how it is the water's kind of [speaker002:] yeah and you get you get a little more carried away with it and you move a little closer [speaker001:] and then you're in to it just a little bit and then you splash in and the next thing you know your knees are wet [speaker002:] yeah do you have any kids that you take fishing [speaker001:] uh got a stepdaughter she's real sweet and uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] at times she enjoys it at times not and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] a fuzzy little dog [speaker002:] I have a three and a half year old and a one and a half year old and the little one of course is could care less the uh three and a half year old has just gotten to the point we got him a little pole last year and just put uh [speaker001:] ah yeah yeah [speaker002:] his big thing last year was throwing it in the water and reeling it up that was what he considered fishing this year he's gotten to where he can we we were at a friend's uh stock pond we were out at their farm and and they had been fishing and let him use the pole while we walked we all walked off a healthy hundred yards or so and let him fish and he started trying to cast it [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] so he he was kind of getting there but he's [speaker001:] yeah you guys sure want to be out of range [speaker002:] he's at a dangerous point right now he understands the mechanics of pushing the button and throw but not necessarily the direction it's going to go in [speaker001:] it takes time yeah last year we had a oh just a wonderful trip up to Trappers Lake oh it was cold and rain the whole time and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] we still had a good time out of the deal [speaker002:] yeah well that's good [speaker001:] uh and Colorado is a beautiful place to live [speaker002:] oh yeah my husband would like to live there but I don't know all of our family is here so [speaker001:] well and you've got to have you've got to work for a living to [speaker002:] well yeah but TI is up there so that part of it would probably work out [speaker001:] what division y'all in [speaker002:] I'm sorry what [speaker001:] what division are y'all in [speaker002:] we're both uh I was uh military but he's division three it goes back and forth Division well maybe division one right now he's in computers [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] so and he's in school and everything else I have some friends who work up there [speaker001:] well the only thing up here is division one oh yeah [speaker002:] Kathy and Kevin Guy [speaker001:] okay yeah [speaker002:] yeah and they like to fish they've been inviting us to come up there in the summer her dad has a cabin and they go fishing up there [speaker001:] oh fishing's fishing is fun up here it's not [speaker002:] so that would be neat to try it some time [speaker001:] it seems like the success ratio the success rate here is not as good as on some of the better lakes there but it is fun you know it [speaker002:] yeah long as you have a good time that's the main point so [speaker001:] the the experience is is better up here I think you know it seems more relaxing there's more to look at [speaker002:] uh-huh definitely more to look at [speaker001:] and and there's something about listening to water run that's relaxing to the soul [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know if you're if you're just sitting on a nice hot lake [speaker002:] yeah the only thing you've got to watch is when that creek comes up we camped next to one one time when we were there a couple of summers ago and we figured we were up a long way off and then it rained that night and we thought well wonder how far off we are and we got up the next day and that creek that had been fifty or sixty feet from our site of our tent was now about three feet away and it's like oh well maybe we ought to move just a touch so that was kind of funny [speaker001:] yeah it it is interesting to watch that water rise all of a sudden [speaker002:] yeah I just love the way it looks I could almost just watch the water we in fact we have gotten out on on trips before and just stopped and watched it because there was so much and if you were there I mean it was one time we were there and I guess it was late May so it was really your spring almost you know at even though it was it was really summer down here and and the I guess the creek the mountains were really starting to melt and the creek was just wild just running [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and and all the white water and noise and the it was just beautiful [speaker001:] yeah it it gets foamy foamy almost and you know it's just pure and pristine [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] and the froth and

[speaker001:] okay I don't do you have a opinion on that on the USR [speaker002:] well the I think I'm I'm skeptical about the whole thing uh and a little still a little bit worried about them because of the history the history of Russia [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and they're in a in a state of flux right now changing uh you uh changing a great deal primarily because of the economic distress [speaker001:] sure um-hum sure [speaker002:] and even in that situation uh the it seems like to me from what I've read in in the history of Russia and and you know different authors uh there has always been a paranoia they've always suspected everybody and and that's why they put you know that's why they put a lot of people in prison for years and years and that's why they put a lot of people to death [speaker001:] sure sure that happens [speaker002:] yeah Stalin Staling was a was a classical example I guess of that paranoia because he he probably killed more Russians than uh you know the Russian army killed anybody else [speaker001:] uh-huh sure I guess in particular my viewpoint is that they financially cannot go into a war uh they are desperate at this point in time to keep their country together but I could not foresee them severing what they have with the US um because they need us at this current time because of their financial situation um from what I've been hearing is the USSR uh USSR has been uh almost bankrupt for years and it's people are desperate and there might be a revolution within the people but I don't think the US would get involved with it because uh there's too close of ties to where [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I think they understand that Gorbachev is trying to make a change and that we cannot run them like we run the US and that they have to make their own independent decision so I guess I really have no fear at all of the USSR verses uh you get these small little uh places like Iraq and all of that that [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] might be something that I'd be more concerned about with nuclear weapons versus a a small uh or the big country of USSR I I I have no feelings that they would ever start a war with us because to them it would totally you know it would totally destroy their whole country because our technology is far advanced from what theirs is at this current time [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so I mean sure they have weapons to kill us over and over and over but to them that would be a suicide and they and the Russian people are not suicidal type of people but if you get the Iraqis and Iran which will do it for the country for the pleasure of you know doing whatever uh for their country they'll do it uh [speaker002:] yeah you're uh I think you're right there's a little more craziness down there uh the Russian people I think are not that much different from us you know I think they're that it would be the leadership that I'd I'd uh mistrust [speaker001:] sure sure um-hum sure I have a daughter that's frustrated she's on a a stool that she can get up on but it if she can't get down on it it's like get me down right now but anyway it was really good talking to you and you have a good weekend [speaker002:] yeah you to thank you bye-bye [speaker001:] uh-huh thank you bye now

[speaker001:] okay were you drug tested when uh [speaker002:] well actually interestingly enough a lot of times [speaker001:] oh where where do where do you work at [speaker002:] well I just retired from the Army after twenty years of uh active uh service uh uh retired out of the Pentagon and because of the organizations that I was in in the military [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and the jobs that I held and particularly because of the security clearances that I had we had first of all we had regular random testing just because we were in the military [speaker001:] just because you were in the service yeah [speaker002:] right and then because of the security clearances that I held I also had uh other regular random uh drug testing for that as well that I actually had to sign an agreement saying that uh [speaker001:] were they like urine tests or were they blood [speaker002:] yeah it was all urine testing [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it was mainly because of their concern because drug use is illegal uh and of course addictive uh it's a perfect thing uh for blackmail for people with high security clearances and so I've kind of over the twenty year period of time I've gotten kind of accustomed to it and [speaker001:] that's right that's right oh okay so it doesn't really bother you that much or [speaker002:] doesn't bother me uh uh because I've always been in sensitive positions that I understand the the problems that can results uh as far as compromise and espionage and uh addiction and blackmail that that has never bothered me [speaker001:] exactly yeah I work for a defense contractor down here uh Pratt Whitney [speaker002:] and uh uh-huh and I work for a defense contractor in Virginia called Network Solutions we uh uh we actually operate the NIC for the internet [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] yeah you probably got uh uh information about this program through the internet [speaker001:] that that's exactly where I got it from [speaker002:] right all of us did yep so uh now we don't have any drug testing out there [speaker001:] uh oh okay so yeah at Pratt Whitney you do it's the you you have to pass your drug test in order to do uh to get employed there you have to pass it [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh huh [speaker001:] and uh it's for the same reasons uh you hold you hold a I have a secret clearance and uh [speaker002:] right uh-huh [speaker001:] you know I guess they just want to make sure that uh like you said that nobody can uh hold anything against you you know make information and then say well we'll turn turn you in for these drugs if you unless you do this and that [speaker002:] um-hum right exactly I guess so there's uh still a good bit of discussion and controversy about whether it's an invasion of your privacy and uh that sort of thing [speaker001:] yeah yeah there is and I and I can see why you know especially especially if you do do especially especially if you use illegal drugs I can see why you wouldn't want it it to happen to you and yeah [speaker002:] right especially right you don't want to get caught [speaker001:] and even if you don't you know it's like well geez you know what else what else could they use this stuff for you know and if it is kind of an invasion of privacy it is an invasion of privacy [speaker002:] um-hum yeah as a matter of fact uh that's such a difficult question to to answer because on the one hand sure uh uh drug testing is an invasion of property or of privacy but yet on the other hand [speaker001:] yeah right [speaker002:] for example these uh guys that drive these trains and that sort of thing that uh have been high and uh killed a lot of people yeah it's it's uh right [speaker001:] that's right you I know it see what a small price to pay to to save some lives it saves us one life you know drug testing it's worth it but [speaker002:] um-hum right and I think for the most part the general public tends to support it but uh I'm sure organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union uh the ACLU probably have their [speaker001:] yeah yeah and they're worried about abuses of it [speaker002:] sure and that that can really happen [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] uh and that sort of thing not just drug testing but lots of other things uh for example blood tests that determine whether you have particularly diseases or not like AIDS uh can be construed to be an invasion of property or of of privacy because it effects your insurance and your employability and [speaker001:] yes that that that stuff should be kept confidential far as that goes [speaker002:] yeah and it's it but yet if that's that's in any kind of a computer database somebody's going to get access to it that and uh real easy to abuse so [speaker001:] it's accessible that's right [speaker002:] it's one of those problems that it's really hard to come up with an answer to [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] yeah you have you ever heard of anybody cheating on those uh urine tests [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah in [speaker001:] I know I know a guy who was who cheated and got in out there at Pratt and uh he took somebody else's with him and just [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] put it in there so it you you can get around them if you have to [speaker002:] oh yeah there were guys in the military that were selling their own urine [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] because they uh just had to be careful that they didn't do the test and uh show that you came up pregnant depending on who you got your sample from it that could be really bad so but uh [speaker001:] oh that could be real embarrassing then you could be caught real bad [speaker002:] and they were really protective [speaker001:] what do they what do they do to you in the military if you get caught what do they do to you if you get caught [speaker002:] um-hum well it depends now if you have a you know that was the other funny thing if you had a high security clearance like my people had [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh and you got caught and these guys were shift workers it really worked out well for them because of course the first thing that happened was that their security clearance was suspended and then they were removed from access to sensitive information which means they got a straight day job at the company [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] so it it was really to their advantage to get caught and [speaker001:] oh man but it wouldn't didn't look good on their record though of course [speaker002:] yeah and in the long run of course uh that was a problem and it kind of depended also on on how often they uh were caught whether they were in a rehab program and

[speaker001:] So, what kind of music you into? [speaker002:] Well, I have a, uh, pretty wide taste, uh, in music, ranging from progressive rock to jazz to, uh, lot of different forms of, uh, music. In fact, it's easier for me to say, uh, the types of music that I don't like are opera and, uh, screaming heavy metal. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] The opera, yeah, it's right on track. I like classical, but I can't deal with opera at all. [speaker002:] [Cough]. [speaker001:] And heavy metal, uh, it's noisy. I'm into, uh, some industrial music that's, a, a bit even harder than that. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But it's, it's got to have a point to it. [speaker002:] Oh, I don't mind music that's [child yelling] difficult to listen to, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] but, uh, the, the, uh, basic point of heavy metal w-, which seems to be music to annoy you, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] is, uh, gets a little annoying. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] What kind of progressive stuff? [speaker002:] Uh, lot of stuff that actually has, uh, ended up becoming popular like, uh, Nirvana and, uh, oh, you know, I'm thirty, so lot of the stuff I was listening to in my teens like the Clash and, and the Sex Pistols and [speaker001:] uh. [speaker002:] R E M, that sort of stuff. Uh, R E M makes me laugh because they've gone from a college radio progressive group to being, uh, you know, ultra mainstream at this point, and it's not really that they've changed their musical style so much as the stream changed. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's, a lot of people l-, like, saying that, you know, bands in that position, you know, sold out. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I think that's pretty much, you know, bull. Because R E M really hasn't changed. If, it's, it's interesting. [speaker002:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker001:] They're producing, uh, similar music and it's good music [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but, you know, people have picked up on it. [speaker002:] [Squeak]. [speaker001:] That's good. [speaker002:] I think it is. [speaker001:] I'm impressed. [speaker002:] Uh, for a while there, music seemed to really ha-, popular music seemed to have, uh, not a lot of point to it. I was really tired of, uh, the Michael Bolton. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Mi-, Michael Bolton really got on my nerves because he, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] he was making all this money doing mediocre cover tunes. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] And I could, uh, go down to a bar that's about three minutes from my house and hear people doing covers better than him [LAUGHTER] not making nearly as much money. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh, but he picked the right songs and [speaker002:] I guess. [speaker001:] and that [LAUGHTER], that's about all he had going for him. Or still has, for that matter. [speaker002:] That, and a marvelous hairdo. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, I'm sure that, that so-, that sold a lot for him. That's all you really need for a lot of, lot of pop. I'm ki-, I've kind of like developed a, a short hatred for, for pop. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] It just seems like there's no, no real point. You hear the same, same tune over and over again [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] in a thousand guises and, [speaker002:] Well, i-, it's interesting because you were, you were saying that you liked classical music [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I like a lot of classical music, but I also dislike, uh, some classical music, and what gets me even more is the attitude of people who are really into classical music, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] and feel that if, if it's not seventy five years old, it hasn't stood the test of time. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, I can, I can believe that. What kind of things are you, do you like in classical? What's the [speaker002:] Uh, [speaker001:] standard? [speaker002:] Stuff that I like, uh, I like Bach. I tolerate Vivaldi. I can't, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] stand, uh, uh, Debussy or Debussy [pronounced different ways] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh, uh, I like Tchaikovsky. He can make a lot of noise when he's, uh, so inclined. [speaker001:] Oh, yes. [speaker002:] Uh, and some of, some stuff that I like, uh, for instance, Frank Zappa has done a fair amount of orchestral composition [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and that's interesting music, [speaker001:] [Cough] [someone else in the room]. [speaker002:] but it would not get performed by any, uh, municipally funded, uh, philharmonic, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] uh, just because, number one, it's Frank Zappa and he's weird, number two, isn't he still alive. You know, we're, we're, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] much better off playing, uh, Beethoven's ninth, that's right, you know, w-, we'll do, we'll do the ninth and everyone will know it and [speaker001:] It's safe. [speaker002:] and hum it and i-, it, it just isn't chance taking enough for me. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh, I feel that, uh, that, that music should take chances in one way or another and that, uh, you know, if you've heard a piece, oh, a hundred, a hundred times,

[speaker001:] well what uh what kind of recycling have you got in your community [speaker002:] well in our community we recycle everything [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] oh yeah we recycle plastic we recycle aluminum we recycle paper we recycle everything [speaker001:] well now do you participate in all of that [speaker002:] well my wife does I'm not real high on it myself how about [speaker001:] well I think I think that's great that she does that I I'll applaud that um [speaker002:] do you do that [speaker001:] no and I I as a matter of fact I kind of cringed a little bit whenever I heard the topic because I think it's admirable and I think it's something that eventually we're we're all going to have to do it uh I don't but I know the [speaker002:] do you realize Glen that the latest Forbes magazine pointed out that it actually costs more to recycle than it does not to recycle [speaker001:] uh in costs more in what way [speaker002:] well newspapers for example for recycling papers to get rid of the ink it costs about thirty two percent more to recycle paper than it does to have new paper [speaker001:] well that's interesting and I've you know I wouldn't I I mean I hadn't heard that Bob and that's that's a little surprising but you know I think about the amount of of newspaper that I throw away in a week [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and you know you multiply that with all the people uh I'm in Houston that are that are tossing out newspapers and it I remember I I was in New York several years ago and I took the wrong turn and I went over into uh State Island where the uh uh landfill is for New York City [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] and of course that's not where I wanted to be so I turned around and beat it by hasty retreat but you know just the the amount of garbage that we generate uh is is staggering and I just I don't know how much longer we can continue to just dump everything [speaker002:] well it's uh it's a problem that uh is probably at the moment over emphasized because there is apparently more landfill available than it's a matter of economics and economically right now uh it's more of a scare tactic it appears that we are running out of things and the facts [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] in some cases are particularly paper which trees obviously by being a renewable resource and being a crop no more different than corn in effect [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it's a situation that of economics where it's less expensive to have new newspaper than using and recycling old paper [speaker001:] yeah and I can I can understand that I think I think about uh you know and they say that now uh a lot of the new cars for instance I read an article not long ago about this uh uh new Honda that they had come out that they're identifying on the car those uh particular different parts uh uh that are plastic so that that whenever the car is worn out and dismantled uh they can recycle the the plastic components [speaker002:] right those are uh plastic is very recyclable and uh it should be uh that's something that just won't go away when you dispose of it and uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] plastics and and your metals are very worthwhile being recycles it's uh [speaker001:] it's just a matter right now of who's going to take the time uh to do it and I I mean it's something that I personally feel is it it's worthwhile I just uh I haven't gotten into it and uh I I think I'm probably like a lot of people in that uh until it gets to the point that it's kind of mandated uh I don't think I'm I'm going to do it unfortunately I know [speaker002:] what what city do you live in [speaker001:] in Houston [speaker002:] well in I live in Plano and uh they have a very big recycling program where uh for your grass clippings for example if you don't put them in a paper sack they won't pick them up they have special pick up days for for uh leaves and debris uh you know clippings type thing and if you put it in a plastic one they won't pick it up yeah [speaker001:] really I saw an article I mean a a program on a TBS not too long ago that uh they were talking about uh recycling and they uh were showing uh in a city I think it was Portland Oregon if I remember it was either but it it was either in Washington or Oregon and of course you know those people up there are very uh uh environmentally conscious and they were uh talking about the the recycling effort up there and how they've got uh uh all these different bins and containers and [speaker002:] that's what they're coming out with here matter of fact [speaker001:] really yeah [speaker002:] I haven't received ours yet but uh that's the plan in Plano also they uh bring out these humpty bins and you're supposed to fill it up with [speaker001:] I know and you know and I'll tell you when you you know and I've been accustomed all my life to throwing everything in one bag and then uh dumping it in the dumpster it's going to be a rude awakening to have to uh start sorting everything [speaker002:] well I I frankly

[speaker001:] [Radio] [Talking] Uh, being a former drug user [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Whoa. [speaker001:] I, uh, I, I guess I have to say at this point, that I do approve of it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, because I know that, uh, in using drugs I was not a good employee. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And so I can see from the company's standpoint that there, uh, whenever you are an employee of the company, you are using its assets, and, uh, b-, you are also under their liability, under the Workmen's Comp. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, on my job we had a lot of Workmen's Comp cases and, [speaker002:] Where do you work? [speaker001:] I work for a tire company [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Modern Tire. And, uh, it's also a retreading plant, and that's where most of our, uh, injuries occur. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And what we do is we'll have a drug test if an, if a, a break or a man, uh, has an accident. Then he's automatically, uh, given a drug test. [speaker002:] Right. Do they do it, like, you know, within hours of the [pause] accident, or is it? [speaker001:] Yes, when he goes to the doctor the first time. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And so, that kind of, uh, I don't know if it's been a deterrent or not, because we have, uh, just started using it [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] oh, for the past year or so. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Now we've let some people go, uh, that wa-, we, was found that drugs were used in their system. Now, I don't know how T E C would handle it. They haven't pursued it, you know. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, if there's some, uh, problem I know, there was one guy that we tested for preemployment for drugs who absolutely swore up and down that it showed that he was using amphetamines, and he went to a, a separate drug [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] testing firm, and they showed it negative. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] So I think the tests themselves are not really that [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] cut and dried, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah, I think that's probably true, too. That's, that's, that's sort of scary. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, really. And then I also had a friend who was just around some people that were smoking cocaine. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And he tested positive on cocaine. Now then you always wonder, well is he just saying that [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, [LAUGHTER] yeah, really, really. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's, that's a bad situation. I think that probably, I think most companies now, as far as entry, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, exams require that. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I think they should. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I'm a T I employee and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, and, uh, I'm, I'm really gung ho for it. In fact I, you know, some of the places now, um, like I B M don't allow them smoking, you know [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] in, in the plant. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] We, we have designated smoking areas. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But, um, I work in sort of a building that's, that's not really, well it's on the campus of the T I facility, but it's a little bit, you know, separated. We lease the building. And it's, it's a factory environment. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, they, they have designated smoking, but it's just wide open, it's not ventilated properly [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and I think that's bad. But as far as the drugs, you know, being in the factory kind of environment that way [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] I think it's a, it's a definite, I think it's essential. [speaker001:] Yeah, because you're endangering everybody's lives if you [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] if it's something like that. [speaker002:] In fact we've had the policy on just the random testing now [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] for a couple years, and, uh, [LAUGHTER] I, I was giving my boss a hard time because I kept waiting for my name to came, come up, you know, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] they never, they never called me, they never, you know, and finally, the day we declared war was my time [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] You're kidding [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] No [LAUGHTER]. And so, and, and my boss has, has gone for about like three times, I think. And I told him he's obviously in a high risk group [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] The executives, right? [speaker002:] Right, right, and of course, you know, they did [phone being moved around and making sound] specifically single them out when we started, [speaker001:] [Cough]. [speaker002:] you know, that they were going to do all them first. [speaker001:] The executives? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Yeah. Wouldn't that be awful if you were [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] Which I thought was interesting [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] if you were using, and, and [speaker002:] Oh, man, yeah. [speaker001:] oh, lose your job and everything. [speaker002:] Ooh, yeah. [speaker001:] I can't believe I was so [pause] brazen before. I, like I say, I'm a former drug user, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but, uh, I, I, well, I, I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior, and so I don't use drugs any more. [speaker002:] Oh, what kind of drugs did you use, if you don't mind? [speaker001:] Uh, marijuana, cocaine and amphetamines. [speaker002:] Wow! [speaker001:] Um, yes, uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And all on the job, too. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] You know, it had gotten that bad. [speaker002:] Well, it's really lucky that you got away from that. [speaker001:] Really, [speaker002:] Cause that's really, [speaker001:] it's, it's life is so much more enjoyable. [speaker002:] downward spiral. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. And I was losing jobs just from doing a poor job, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's it. [speaker001:] I mean, you know, there's all kinds of drawbacks, much less the drug testing. [speaker002:] Yeah. Just life in general. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, that's right. [speaker002:] Yeah, well, well I'm definitely for it. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Plus, you know, you, you want to think that, that you're working with people who are not only putting out their fair share, [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] but that are not endangering your life, in some cases [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] like, uh, my husband, uh, several years back, worked for Motorola. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And they had, you know, I mean it was a chemical handling type. [speaker001:] Oh, goodness. [speaker002:] Yeah, I mean, and they have, they have some serious chemicals out there [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know, like they have emergency shower where you just run in there and strip off and dump water, you know, that kind of thing. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And they had people out there using all sorts of drugs handling those chemicals. [speaker001:] Oh, my gosh. [speaker002:] And that's really, that's really frightening. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So I think some place, you know, places like that, it should be like mandatory [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] like, you know, on, on a, on a greater frequency than maybe, [speaker001:] Right, [speaker002:] just, you know, paper pushers like, like I am. [speaker001:] I would think there would be. [speaker002:] Well, well you'd think so but, uh, [speaker001:] But they weren't? [speaker002:] I don't know if they do it till yet. [speaker001:] Isn't that awful. [speaker002:] Because when he was at, course now it's been years now, because it was before, it was even before they had the, the designated smoking [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] type stuff, you know, at T I. I forgot what, I guess it was like eighty-four, eighty-five [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] something like that. And they, at that time, they had no testing whatsoever. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] So that's scary [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. That reminds me of, uh, I have a friend who was telling me about her brother who gets high all the time, and I have just casually asked her what he did for a living. And she said, Oh, he's the supervisor of this chemical land fill, you know [speaker002:] Oh, Lord. [speaker001:] where they go and dump all this toxic stuff. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] And I just, you know, went, Oh, where? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, should we move? [speaker001:] Let me move as far away as possible. [speaker002:] Ooh. [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] That's awful. [speaker001:] But, I'm proud, though, that, that, um, you know, I grew up in the sixties, and back then it was popular [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but people have really wizened, you know, become wise about drugs [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and they really have a good campaign for the young people, you know. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] They know it's not smart, so. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So, I guess it was just a generational thing. [speaker002:] Yeah, peer group is the other way now instead of, [speaker001:] That's right, and that's good. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, that's, [speaker001:] That's the best way to stop it. [speaker002:] Yeah, that, it really is. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, I think we did it. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] So it's good talking to you. [speaker002:] Well, I enjoyed talking to you, Cathy. [speaker001:] Yeah, bye-bye [music].

[speaker001:] uh oh [speaker002:] are you still there [speaker001:] yes I'm still here [speaker002:] oh I know what it was the answering machine must have run out of I I heard something click and I was like oh no it disconnected us [speaker001:] well that no I think I think it's on I'm I'm so glad I got hold of you I want um something came up at work the other day people are wondering how to choose a college [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I was wondering how what did your parents do to help you choose a college [speaker002:] well to be honest they didn't really do a lot I mean my dad sat me down I guess in junior high and said um that I guess they had called him from the school and you know when they start giving you all those standardized tests and everything and you know Dad said well you know you're a smart kid so you're going to college and you're going to graduate school so decide now what do you want to be here here are your choices you can be a doctor a lawyer an architect uh he gave me a list of choices all you know the different professions and I was kind of like I didn't even know you know I had no clues so I said dad well I can't stand the sight of blood so a doctor is out and uh I'm not I can't do math so a lot of stuff is out um I didn't think I'd be a very good architect because I like to draw but not that way so I said well I guess I'll be a lawyer because I think they help people boy was I stupid so Dad said okay fine you're going to be a lawyer so then when it got time to you know get close to you know you start getting college brochures and stuff my dad kind of said well uh what's the best law school in the country and all his friends told him Harvard and he goes okay well I think you should go there for undergraduate too so I was like okay fine so I like uh send them the uh you know do the what do you call it you know send for the things you fill out and filled out the forms and um they interview you they always have one of their alums interview you and at the time I applied you had to do it through Radcliff because [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] used to Harvard was for the boys and Radcliff was for the girls [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] and even though they were combined you know even though they had to let women in Harvard you still had to apply through Radcliff so I did all this and uh a Radcliff alum here in Dallas did my interview and basically Harvard has a recognized and constitutionally upheld quota system and they told me that I was provisionally accepted but that if that they got a black person or Hispanic person or something that was qualified from this area that I would be bumped because I'm just a basic you know wasp type person so I'm not really [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] you know they had this minority recruitment thing [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] so and sure enough about two weeks before school started I found out that they had taken uh they uh found a black girl and uh took her instead so the only thing I could do was I had to go somewhere that you could pretty much register and start the next day so University of Texas was where my dad went to school and luckily it's kind of that way so I went down there and late registered and basically started classes the day after I registered [speaker001:] so you got to choose a college twice [speaker002:] yeah by myself [speaker001:] good grief [speaker002:] I mean my parents didn't really you know my dad was the first well my mom they were the first people in their families that had been to college which I know like people from the east coast colleges are all around you you know [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and so everybody goes to college or it's more normal I think because a lot of my friends that are from the east coast you know everybody in their family's been to college but out here you know in fact my mother hasn't really been to college college they had a junior college [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that was fairly close by and and so she that's all she ever did was go to junior college [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] just you know two year college and and got her degree but you know then my dad went back to school and finished school and went to professional school [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but that was after my brother and I were already little kids so nobody in my family really knew how to advise me [speaker001:] that was the same way in in my family of course my parents were divorced so it was just mother and my grandparents but one of the key things then was what could we afford to do [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and I got a a co-op deal at one of the schools in New Mexico and I was there for a couple of years before I flunked out [speaker002:] well where did you go to school in New Mexico [speaker001:] New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology and that choice [speaker002:] I bet that was neat [speaker001:] yeah it was but men out women numbered the women about twenty or thirty to one [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] but uh it was just a very small school about three hundred students but the big the reason for choosing it was because of the financial aid that was available [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and it [speaker002:] that is really critical these days I think [speaker001:] yeah yeah but then I my next choice in college was hey I move back with home with mom and I I went to the local university to get my grade point back up [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] so a decent school would let me in

[speaker001:] Well, we, in, in, in our family, have been pretty remiss in trying to, uh, you know, keep track of, uh, daily finances. Uh, the, uh, way back, what, twelve years ago or something when I got my first computer, I did what everybody else does, which is to put the whole family budget on the machine and put checks, and, you know, checkbooks and all this kind of thing and we kept that going for about a month and it became so onerous that we gave up on it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. That sounds about right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] You know, so, uh, the only thing we're, you know, that we do now is, uh, I keep a, a little spread sheet of, uh, what I call the net worth calculation which is just the, the present value of various kinds of investments and so worth. Uh, and I only update that, oh I don't know, maybe once every quarter or so. Every three months. Just, basically when the statements come in. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know. Just to see whether or not we're falling, you know, getting ahead, falling behind or staying even or what. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Uh, that's really about, you know, the extent of, uh, of the kind of, uh, financial score keeping that we're doing. [speaker002:] Uh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] Well it's kind of difficult for me. Because right now, uh, like most teachers, I'm laid off and [speaker001:] Huh. Oh dear, that's terrible. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] so, um, I spend most, you know, I substitute a lot. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So it's a lot, it's very hard on a nonfixed income because I don't know how many days I'm going to be called in and whether I am or not, to try to keep track of finances. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, but I know how much I have to bring in a month [LAUGHTER]. And that's about it. That's about as far as we go. And then anything extra is, you know, more or less split up between all of us. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And just thrown in the kitty, more or less, for a rainy day [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, I see. Are you, are you married? Are you living with a bunch of, with, with people that you're sharing expenses? [speaker002:] Uh, no. I'm a single mother. I have three children. [speaker001:] Oh, I see, uh-huh. [speaker002:] So, uh, right now, we're on, we get f-, you know, aid from the state at this point because there's no other way to do it. And my ex-husband just sort of took off and doesn't pay child support [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh dear. [speaker002:] So right now I know what I'm getting from the state and, uh, I have to balance, more or less, what I get from the state with my bills and, uh, you know, try to work as many days as possible. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Any time they call me in. But I still have to figure out. If I work too many days, then I lose all my state aid and [LAUGHTER] if I don't work enough days then I don't get enough to meet the bills and it's like a juggling act every single month. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Like this week I've been just holding my breath and hoping they'll call me in but they probably won't because next week the kids have school vacation. [speaker001:] I see. [speaker002:] So, you know, the four days before, they only have a four day week [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and they usually don't need subs because everybody's pretty good about coming in [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] A-, oh, I see. [speaker002:] They don't like to be absent before a vacation. [speaker001:] Oh, sure. [speaker002:] But we're shopping around as far as, well I'm shopping around as far as trying to get, uh, that's why I'm doing this, to get some extra money. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, getting pledge sheets for the Boy Scouts. My kids are in Boy Scouts so trying to get pledge sheets for the Boy Scouts because every penny I bring in is ten percent to me. So [LAUGHTER] it's sort of helps defray the costs a little bit. But, you know, we do a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul. I guess we're in the situation that a lot of am-, middle-class Americans are in. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, you're the first, you know, uh, my next door neighbor just lost his job. [speaker002:] Oh, my Lord. [speaker001:] In a, you know, one of these, uh, his company went broke. I mean went, you know, bankrupt. Actually, it was a subsidiary of a, of an outfit called U S Shoe or something. I-, i-, it was a computer subsidiary. I don't know what a shoe company's doing running a computer company. [speaker002:] Really. [speaker001:] But, uh, you know, they just [NOISE] folded it up and, uh, uh, told him to, they took the top management and gave them jobs [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] with the, with the corporate, uh, at the corporate front office and everybody else was sent packing. [speaker002:] Oh [snorting]. [speaker001:] [Noise] Uh, hang on one second I've got [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] uh, somebody was knocking on my door here. Uh, it sounds like, in a certain sense, at least at the present, I mean, it sounds, sounds terrible to say, but at the present stage, you probably are even more in the market for a, a budgetary thing than, than most people probably ar-, might be. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] In terms of keeping, keeping score of input and output. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Definitely. [speaker001:] Do you have, do you have a computer at home or, [speaker002:] Uh, yes we do. And we try [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] to, you know, I keep track of every penny. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, more or less, enter it in. Every single day I'm at the computer. [speaker001:] I see. [speaker002:] And, it's like, okay, what do we have left, [speaker001:] [Cough]. [speaker002:] what do we have to pay, what [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] have we paid this month. What hasn't come in yet, you know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. Have you, do you use a standard, uh, a standard spread sheet or I mean,

[speaker001:] Okay, looks like we're ready to go. Capital punishment, uh, the problem I have with capital punishment is that, uh, uh, it's supposed to be a deterrent to crime, but I don't think that it really actually does that. I don't think it deters anybody, because [throat clearing] most of the time crimes are, uh, are committed with a, without any thought to the consequences and they don't think that, uh, stop and think and say, well, maybe I shouldn't do this, uh, because, uh, I might get the gas chamber or something like that. They worry about it afterwards and then they try and get out of it. [inhaling] And, uh, how about you [throat clearing]? [speaker002:] Well, I think that in some cases, it is warranted. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, I do, too, yep. [speaker002:] And I don't, I think in some cases it doesn't matter if it's a deterrent or not. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah, you still have to do it. I, [speaker002:] I mean [speaker001:] I, [speaker002:] I mean, I'm thinking of an extreme case like a serial murderer [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] or, [speaker001:] So you're in, you're in favor of capital punishment, then. [speaker002:] Well, for some things. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] I think for serial murder [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] it is warranted because if a person who would do something like that in cold [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] blood, [speaker001:] Needs to be punished or, uh, eliminated from society. [speaker002:] I mean, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] you can't guarantee that they wouldn't escape [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] from prison [speaker001:] And then do it all over again. [speaker002:] and do it again. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I don't think that, that rehabilitation is effective. [speaker001:] Right. Have to agree with you, and I'm kind of i-, in favor of capital punishment also. I just don't think that it acts much as a deterrent to these people because, uh, you still see them committing the same crimes, but, I tend to agree with you that, uh, we should have it [throat clearing]. I just, I don't know that it's always effective [LAUGHTER], but I guess we, uh, we're kind of stuck with it. It's, it's a difficult, uh, problem, isn't it, to determine how you're going to punish somebody for a particular crime, [inhaling] uh, [speaker002:] But, then, you know, I think that, that some murderers don't really warrant capital punishment. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You know, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] just, like, for example, uh, you know, you hear about cases where women have killed their husbands [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] who abused them [speaker001:] Right, uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I don't think, [speaker001:] [Cough]. [speaker002:] that would really warrant capital punishment. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, huh. Do you think they should be punished at all, or, uh, [throat clearing] like go to prison, uh, because they're not really a danger to society. It was almost really self defense, isn't it, in a case like that. [speaker002:] Uh [breathing], it is to a certain extent [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but I think, I don't know because, [speaker001:] I know they put, uh, put them in jail sometimes, I guess. Uh, [speaker002:] I think in s-, and it, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] just would depend upon the circumstances [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, and the extent of the abuse [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, and if another alternative was [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] available. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. You know, now, I wonder what you think about this and, uh, unfortunately, we, we don't get to do it, but, uh, it used to be a long time ago, I guess in Biblical times [throat clearing] when they had punishment [inhaling], if somebody did something, for example, to your family, then you had the right to administer the punishment. So if somebody killed somebody in your family [throat clearing], then you had the right to, uh, if that person was caught and found guilty, you had the right to, uh, execute that person. And I know that, uh, if somebody had done something to my family, I would feel that I had the right to, to get revenge on them and, uh, [throat clearing] but, I, I don't think that's done much anywhere [LAUGHTER]. That's kind of drastic punishment. [speaker002:] Well, I think that would be kind of drastic punishment. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And, [speaker001:] Might make you feel better but [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] But, one thing, I think that if there is a chance for rehabilitation [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] then that chance sh-, should be investigated. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] But, like I said, if, if someone is, is just pathologically [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] going to murder people no matter what [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] then I think they should be eliminated from [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] society. [speaker001:] Right, because they're a danger to everybody else. Huh, that's interesting. I have to, uh [speaker002:] But, [speaker001:] agree with that. There's a lot of folks, probably, that are in prison that, uh, that aren't really a danger to society, huh, and, uh, [speaker002:] And a lot of people that [LAUGHTER] are a danger [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Right. [speaker002:] to society that aren't in prison. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Right, probably more of them then the other way around [LAUGHTER]. Interesting. I don't, I don't, not sure I, I'm in Washington, D C or at least very close to it. I'm not sure what kind of, uh, capital punishment we have here. [speaker002:] Well, I know in North Carolina, we do have capital punishment. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I'm in, I'm from South Carolina.

[speaker001:] um fringe benefits are very important in the company in the company I think to provide the employee with a sense of security do you agree with that or [speaker002:] oh absolutely uh are you talking about benefits I can't think of one more important then than the you know the medical [speaker001:] yes at the rising cost of health uh care now it's uh if you have to go out and buy your company coverage you probably have to spend three four hundred dollars a month to get anything that even came close to it [speaker002:] insurance right um-hum that's right and uh even have dental dental insurance now which is really good [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so uh [speaker001:] we uh we've just got dental insurance after the first of the year it's been I think probably oh about eight or nine years since we had dental coverage and it sure makes a difference and [speaker002:] it it really does and uh uh well let's let's see insurance I I guess that would be one of the real biggies you know to a consideration [speaker001:] yeah I think the in the insurance area one of the things that we also got that we didn't have before what we haven't had in about eight years is the card for prescriptions where you go in and just pay a minimal amount for prescriptions and uh we have some that are fairly expensive sixty seventy dollars well now we pay eight dollars for them [speaker002:] but with um paying twenty percent [speaker001:] uh no that's just all prescriptions uh [speaker002:] I know well see if you had a seventy dollar yeah okay that would save you [speaker001:] yeah and it's a I think it's five dollars on generic drugs and eight dollars on a name brand drug so no matter what they are in fact you have to pay the certain basic cost [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] for them you don't have to meet any deductible or anything [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but uh [speaker002:] how about paid time off [speaker001:] uh yeah that's uh just vacation and some sick leave not very much though [speaker002:] do uh do you have a certain number of sick leave to you know days that are available to you or or is it [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] pretty much just depends on your supervisor [speaker001:] uh really depending uh on what you need kind of it's a case that there if you need more than a couple weeks or eight days or whatever it may be then they they will consider it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so that's been with the companies I've been with generally at a a executive position they're a little more liberal even though they're not supposed to be supposed to treat everyone the same still leave hard you know rule more liberal with time off due to the all the extra hours executives put in [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but uh the uh I think pension costs are making it more and more difficult for them to provide per pension benefits too it's uh [speaker002:] oh that's right [speaker001:] yes because it just keeps going an up up and up there too but uh there's [speaker002:] yeah well do as you get closer to that time you start you know you start becoming [speaker001:] yeah the older you get the more you start thinking about the possibilty pension [speaker002:] all of a sudden you know I can remember when that who cares so now I think oh wait let's let's maybe we better start getting serious about that [speaker001:] right right yeah yeah uh my son has worked for a company for about six year he graduated from college what in eighty six so five years this fall and he started out with they had a Four O One K plan and he asked me if he should get into it and I said well very small amount uh you can put in there and you keep adding to it and they're going to match it or so and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] all of a sudden at the end of last year he had a sizeable amount saved up in his Four O One K plan just with the matching funds that the company is putting in and any earnings on investments so [speaker002:] but he can't touch that though right [speaker001:] no no he can't but he's only uh twenty seven years old and he's already got a good start [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] even if he changes companies he can you know roll that over into another plan [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah we had I had that too there's a certain percentage of your salary and the company matches it fifty percent not half not not half-and-half I meant [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] they don't match it exactly but fifty fifty percent which is good [speaker001:] yeah um I wish I had a company that did that but there's oh there's various intangibles also like uh you know taking pride in the company you work for being able to say I work for such and such company or I hold such and such position with this company and that's one of the intangible fringe benefits I guess a certain ego level there [speaker002:] your company has a lot of prestige [speaker001:] well it not the one I'm working for now but one I did in the past did so [speaker002:] but um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] I I just felt you know at a I need to find a company like that again [speaker002:] well another thing our company does is as far as uh like uh taking classes either within the company or them offering classes to us or [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] or or external you know they pay close pay yes [speaker001:] pay tuition and books or a portion thereof [speaker002:] and uh check they we I think we we have a mandatory we spend at least ten days a year not or not well yeah about something like that uh in taking classes and they're offered within TI but you we have training plans everybody does [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I mean they really you know I I think uh our company really has a lot of good really good benefits [speaker001:] oh what you can find there is so many of these things like uh working for a company some of the things they really enhance your experience in case you do have to change companies [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah I mean it's a just makes you that much more salable shall we say [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] if you do have to go and search for another position [speaker002:] um-hum that's true everything you everything you learn you its yours and you you it goes with you wherever you go so the more you learn the better off you are [speaker001:] it's right that's right yeah yeah the company I used to be with also took care of things like professional dues and subscriptions to like the Wall Street and other professional man's magazines in the financial areas so it uh there are there are more than just insurance and pension there's lots of other things that come up [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] back in the heyday of the economy before this recession then of course there were other things available to other people I never even took advantage of them of uh like memberships in clubs people that uh had to entertain and such [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so there's all sorts of fringe benefits [speaker002:] that's true so salary salary is [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] salary is what we do work for and what we have to have that's our initial motivation [speaker001:] eh that's right it it keeps your mortgage holder happy [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] it keeps your mortgage holder happy [speaker002:] that's right that's right [speaker001:] yeah having to salary again being uh uh being able to acquire the the nicer things that you want not just have to live at a a certain level being able to do things or purchase things [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] that you want that aren't really necessary [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so um that's about all I have [speaker002:] well I guess that I guess we've pretty well exhausted that [speaker001:] okay fine it's been nice talking with you [speaker002:] well nice talking nice talking to you [speaker001:] good-bye [speaker002:] bye

[speaker001:] well I've been sort of out of it for a little while so I don't know really what's going on [speaker002:] well there there's been some interesting stuff going on locally but I suppose nationally the big thing is probably uh the reaction to the war in the Gulf [speaker001:] yeah all the Democrats trying to show that yeah oh oh gosh we really did support it I mean just because we wanted to impeach him doesn't mean anything [speaker002:] trying to cover themselves yeah [speaker001:] yeah there's been uh same thing locally here a couple of uh we got a Senator who uh went on national TV and said that you know if Bush tried to do anything over there without Congressional approval they should impeach him and [speaker002:] yeah that's true there there's a lot of talk over there that I don't think anyone imagined that it could possibly be as as successful and and painless as it had been [speaker001:] then yeah yeah [speaker002:] so they figured a little bit of opposition was safe but it didn't turn out that way [speaker001:] sure no uh I don't know I I I usually don't talk politics with people especially strangers because it's a good way to get into an argument but [speaker002:] well that's why that's why being strangers is safe we can [speaker001:] it's it's probably safer at least now can't get hit this way you know [speaker002:] that's true that's true [speaker001:] but uh I I don't know I'm I've been Republican for as long as I can remember and the Democrats are just so disorganized and they have been [speaker002:] that's true I I've been Democrat for since I've been voting which isn't that long but I'll agree with you there that there's not much organization going on [speaker001:] yeah they uh yeah I I don't know it right around the turn of uh oh gosh I should say the eighties now now it's already the nineties I forgot I forget that too [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] they they just haven't seemed to been able to hit anything uh on the head every every time they go one way the wind is always blowing the other which is [speaker002:] well that's true but I suppose it's hard to judge from the eighties because um Reagan was just so overwhelming to them I think they're seeing some of that unraveling these days but [speaker001:] yeah yeah no I don't I don't know how they're going uh I I you know I'm looking I'm looking at the upcoming elections and I'm trying to think who are they going to put up [speaker002:] well they've already got uh oh jeez there's there's there's already one candidate that I know of on the Democratic end and I keep thinking there's a second one uh Paul Tsongas [speaker001:] oh Tsongas [speaker002:] yeah uh out of Massachusetts I think [speaker001:] yeah I wouldn't mind him too much he's a pretty good guy he's been around and he's he keeps a low profile and doesn't go after the the headlines and stuff [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] I've I've I've heard the name but that that's the extent of my my information about him [speaker001:] yeah yeah I I would be interested to see if Sam Nunn decides to go this time I I [speaker002:] um-hum try to get the conservative candidate for once [speaker001:] yeah I mean if out out of all the Democrats that I could think to run I would he is one that I would I would definitely like to see [speaker002:] that that would be interesting I I must admit I haven't been really enthusiastic about the Democratic entrants in the last couple of run throughs [speaker001:] well I'll tell you if they if they do it like they did uh the last time around it's not going to be very exciting you know um I mean let's face Dukakis and Bentsen and Bentsen good grief surely they could have done better than that course they they had a they had themselves between a rock and a hard place they had on the one hand they had Jesse Jackson with all that support and on the other they knew very [speaker002:] but completely unelectable and [speaker001:] oh sure and and they could not give him the nomination [speaker002:] true it's it's probably their their their troubles probably stem from the fact that they're such a diverse party [speaker001:] uh I yeah [speaker002:] and the nominating rules these days are so um pseudo democratic I guess [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you can't have the people in the back rooms deciding well who could we really get elected instead there's so much [speaker001:] yeah I mean I mean they were really stuck because here they were everybody was expecting Jesse Jesse to get at least the VP nomination [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh certainly not presidential but but quite possibly VP and here they are they they know very well they can't do it because if they do it's going to split the party and if they do it they're going to alienate a whole bunch of others so I mean they were stuck one way or the other yeah it was an interesting thing I was laughing through the whole thing uh [speaker002:] true I suppose being on the other side of the aisle it probably made good comic theater [speaker001:] yeah I it it it was it was it was comical I I sat there and watched the just watched CNN and just giggle all night you know uh oh this is great George Bush is in [speaker002:] yeah that's true that's true [speaker001:] and I think Bush has turned out to be a lot better President than people gave him credit for [speaker002:] I I must admit I'm I'm still I I still find him a little uninspiring he he seems like a reasonably competent [speaker001:] yeah he is he yeah he he is [speaker002:] person to sort of do do some caretaking to um [speaker001:] yeah and and I I wonder the you know if if that's I mean that that really that really should be all we need in a president someone who is capable of managing [speaker002:] true [speaker001:] and that's all a president is anyway just a manager [speaker002:] sort of set the agenda and and let let people do the work it's it's unfortunate how how little domestic agenda he [speaker001:] uh and set the agenda and yeah well you know the Republicans Republicans have always been weak on on the domestic side they're they're very big on international stuff but domestically they they just say well it'll take care of itself [speaker002:] he he worries about true but uh so many of his compi campaign promises were on the the domestic promises [speaker001:] but it's yeah well you know same old you know take it with a grain of salt stuff you know he he [speaker002:] true that that's that's what just amazes me though is that that so many people do uh take the campaign promises seriously [speaker001:] yeah yeah and they still do he [speaker002:] well the the one thing that just amazed me in in Texas here there were a series of um ads saying don't vote for Dukakis he's going to take away your right to own a gun he's going to close down defense plants he's going to do this he's going to do that [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] half of which is coming true [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I just here's my chance to giggle boy it's a good thing we didn't elect that Dukakis guy because I mean [speaker001:] yeah well you know the interesting thing about I don't know if you've been watching Massachusetts lately um [speaker002:] I know I know that the the Massachusetts miracle has has gone bust [speaker001:] oh it's a disaster it's a disaster and the thing was it was all quick fixes finger in the dike sort of thing to make him look good for the upcoming race [speaker002:] um-hum oh I I guess I didn't hear that I didn't go over it really [speaker001:] well I mean that that's what you can infer from it because it it's amazing that it started about two years before the the the run [speaker002:] true true I suppose [speaker001:] and then you know it took a few years to crap out but I mean it was dying last year I lived up in Boston [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I mean it was terrible it was absolutely terrible up prices are just unbelievable up there and the services are getting terrible everything's going down the tubes said he was going to clean up Boston Harbor and it's dirtier than it ever was [speaker002:] yeah that really is disappointing it's it's sort of [speaker001:] never yeah and then on the other hand too while he was out busy running for the presidential thing the legislature was having their own way [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh you know it was just it was a pure disaster because the way it was set up he's the one that that put it together and he's the only one who knew how it worked or supposedly worked and he wasn't there to run it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and so here's a bunch of legislatures with their own agenda uh legislators with their own agenda and of course the thing just fell apart fell to pieces and he couldn't do anything with it it was amazing they had a poll last year about I guess it was around July uh they showed the picture of Dukakis to people in Massachusetts only twenty three percent could recognize him as governor [speaker002:] that's incredible oh oh there's there's one thing I've got to ask you about the the dump Quayle movement I find that interesting [speaker001:] it it was I wish they would [speaker002:] I I find him such an embarrassment and uh I mean the the the idea of Collin Powell well he's so powerful or he's so popular now [speaker001:] yeah I yeah [speaker002:] I I I don't know if he's the the right one to replace him he'd probably be a perfectly competent replacement but [speaker001:] boy I tell you he I'll tell you what you know when I was in the Air Force I met I met Collin Powell [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] yeah I was I had a pretty neat job I got to meet all the big wigs used to fly with the president and all that stuff um Collin Powell is one capable guy [speaker002:] I get I I I would probably find him an order of magnitude more capable than Quayle [speaker001:] he oh yes absolutely I I mean the [speaker002:] it's it's interesting to hear that Bush has instead instead instead instead of just making bland uh pronouncements about having no plans to change the ticket has just really emphatically come out and said no way [speaker001:] I know I and I I'll tell you you know it I I my my degree was in political science because I enjoyed it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I had a good time during that during that election but it floored me when he came up with Quayle because there are so many other capable Republicans [speaker002:] well from from some of the things I've heard about Bush he he he didn't want a vice president that was any competition for him [speaker001:] I mean yeah and I mean certainly he wasn't going to take Bob Dole on and not that Bob Dole would even take the position I mean he'd be giving up more than he'd gain [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but there are several people who are who are just super capable but to get this nobody with the kind of baggage that he's carrying [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I uh it just astounded me I mean he must have been so sure of winning that it didn't make any difference [speaker002:] well it uh uh I'm I guess I'm the I'm cloudy on the timing but there there was quite a while when his certain victory wasn't certain at all [speaker001:] yeah I well [speaker002:] I'm I'm not sure how that timing related to the Quayle announcement but he was trailing at at times or or just just neck and neck I guess [speaker001:] yeah I yeah about that time I think it was neck and neck and I the only the only reason at the time that I could think of was that he was young and and sort of charismatic in uh in uh handsome sort of way [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and hoping to bring in maybe a little bit of like Kennedy charisma or something but the guy is so uncharismatic [speaker002:] I mean [speaker001:] I mean Bush talks about he doesn't like broccoli well that's how how I think of Dan Quayle as broccoli you know [speaker002:] oh that brings up another subject it's the the the uh I don't know the

[speaker001:] how do you uh feel about the metric system [speaker002:] well uh I I was just talking to my dad about that just a couple of weeks ago and I think I think it'd be great that we went to it and uh the the one thing though that I think we should do if we go to the metric system then we should do away with the other system and and have only the metric system [speaker001:] well yeah I'll tell you I was I was thinking about it while I was waiting for a connection [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I in my business I have to do conversions back and forth between metric tons and uh then I converted into barrels and gallons and then I deal with long tons and so forth and so on and I will admit that it does make it uh [speaker002:] right yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] uh perhaps a little bit cumbersome at the same time I don't know it's one of the oddities one of the few things that are left you know is is as the world shrinks we become more and more homogenized everybody [speaker002:] yeah well that's true [speaker001:] yeah it seems to uh uh you know it it's like it's like accents even you know there's not used to be there's a great variation across the US and now with television everybody is beginning to sound like uh a news uh announcer you know [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah that's true you're right you're right there's no losing we're losing our culture of our area uh-huh [speaker001:] and and the whole um I don't know it yeah but I I don't know I kind of got a soft spot in my uh my heart for feet and inches even though I I like I say in in my business I do have to uh to work around it [speaker002:] sure yeah yeah well I uh I work in a hospital and of course that's all we use and every and every thing we do is metric you know and uh you know weights is in kilograms and uh you know whatever whatever is whatever happens to be the thing that we're measuring it's in metric [speaker001:] yeah you know I think one of one of the reasons that I've got some hesitancy about doing it is that I still have a difficult time [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] I mean there are few of pieces of the metric system that I can visualize okay I I I've gotten pretty good at at at you know I realize about that how long a a meter is [speaker002:] yeah yeah right right [speaker001:] okay but as far as you know and it's uh I've kind of got the conversion of different parts of the metric system where I'm comfortable with it but I'm not with weights [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and and until I I I guess it would be something that if I had been uh uh a little more educated in it or forced into using it more I might be more comfortable with it [speaker002:] yeah yeah sure right well uh uh one one of the things that really I I really think it would be sort of weird is is the uh cars the miles per hour instead of having uh having kilometers um kilometers per hour [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] cause it it's hard to imagine you know I well I think the problem with us our generation is that nobody even if we did go all the way to the metric system that we're still going to think in terms of how it relates to the other system you know [speaker001:] well well sure it'd take a new generation it would take a new generation to be just you know completely metric [speaker002:] no matter what you that's right that's right because it's hard to it's just like uh another language I guess [speaker001:] yeah I think you're right [speaker002:] and when you learn another language um I guess what you have to do is try to think in that language and not think in in terms of translating it to English you know but [speaker001:] yeah well you know they try to in one of the in one of the parts of the question they ask you know just ask to ask us to discuss was uh uh why why the first attempt failed you know and I was thinking I don't I don't know I I don't really have a good answer for that other than I guess it was just that much uh uh resistance to change [speaker002:] yeah yeah I think so too and I think that uh that it was it was pretty much optional wasn't it at the time and and uh [speaker001:] that's true and and the other thing too they're they were going to use both systems you know simultaneously [speaker002:] yeah that's right see that's why I think it is I think they used both systems and everybody as long as they had inches they could just transpose back and forth and it made it difficult so everybody thought well this is too much trouble [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but uh of course if you didn't have anything available but metrics I think it'd be a little easier on you you know [speaker001:] yeah they didn't until uh you know uh strawberries by anything but uh kilograms then you know rather than pounds [speaker002:] that's right that's right you you'd you would just quit thinking you wouldn't worry about how many ounces is this you would just say well how many how many uh grams is it you know and [speaker001:] sure yeah and then and then you could you know people would start looking seeing a you know a quantity and they would say well hey that you know that's about that looks to be about two pounds and hey that's this much you know in metric so you know [speaker002:] yeah sure yeah yeah and it's uh like weight you know I I weigh about a hundred and sixty five and that's I know somewhere in the neighborhood of seventy something kilograms you know and it's it's hard to imagine well only seventy something you feel like you don't weigh much you know [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] but um I guess if that's the only thing you knew well you would just know well I weigh seventy something kilograms and that's it you know [speaker001:] yeah of course I've I do think there's always that there's still kind of a uh I don't know a a romance if you will with the idea of a yard being the uh the link from the king's nose to the tip of his uh finger or you know [speaker002:] well that's true yeah I understand that it's that's true that's very true that's very true [speaker001:] so I you know and and that that and I I think I don't know then all these other old English stories that go back you know that with our uh with our system of measurement [speaker002:] yeah that's right it's funny that uh I guess all that started in England I guess all the measurement system of measurement and now uh we're still using it and they are gone they've left it you know and they use metrics there [speaker001:] yeah yeah although although although although there are

[speaker002:] what kind of crimes you have in Hattiesburg [speaker001:] uh actually about anything you can imagine uh from you you know this petty theft kind of crud going around vandalism up to uh certain amount of organized crime where uh gangs are starting to you know show up and actually you know qualify as gangs [speaker002:] oh boy that's and Hattiesburg's not that big is it fifty thousand or so yeah [speaker001:] uh about fifty yeah right around fifty thousand we I think we this census we just missed fifty thousand by a couple of people or something like that [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] but uh yeah it's it's right at fifty thousand [speaker002:] yeah we're real disgusted around here in Austin we live in the city and on December the sixth uh four teenage girls were murdered and mutilated two blocks from our house at a yogurt shop [speaker001:] um-hum murdered and mutilated [speaker002:] mutilated uh they cut them up and they put ice cream inside their bodies and then they burnt the place down or tried to burn the place down as they left [speaker001:] uh what these are girls who worked at this ice cream parlor or [speaker002:] uh two of them worked there and two of them came to pick them up when they got off their at at eleven o'clock that night and [speaker001:] all right so this so this is a place the the place had shut down already [speaker002:] right or just shutting down just closing and I don't think the police have a clue uh they've had the FBI here and have some sort of analysis of who might have done it what type of person might have done it but [speaker001:] um yeah character profile psychiatric profile [speaker002:] yeah but it's just they're still begging for help and and and I just feel like some of they're helpless at uh trying to solve this one [speaker001:] yeah yeah ah shoot the the big problem is there's no real punishment for crime anymore I mean the bigger the crime the less likely you are to get punished for it [speaker002:] yeah that's true my wife and I read a lot of uh true crime books and you know court cases things like that [speaker001:] I mean get adequately punished anyway yeah yeah [speaker002:] and it boy it just upsets us when people get off with little or nothing they're they're on they're out on probation probation in fifteen years after murdering half a dozen people and [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] it's just not fair [speaker001:] well they slaughter innocent innocent lots of innocent lives and they get you know a few years and a slap on the wrist and someone else turns around and you know embezzles a couple of thousand dollars from the local bank and they you know they practically get fried [speaker002:] yes yeah I think about a year ago here in Austin they were we were uh the gang problem was getting real bad and they hired a hundred new policemen and a lot of them were dedicated just to the crime unit or to the gang unit [speaker001:] yes um-hum yeah [speaker002:] and just recently they announced that they've pretty much got it under control there was only one gang related murder this past year [speaker001:] yeah that's good if nothing else they've got the gangs pushed down to where they're you know not going to be very active at least as far as you know murders or open crimes are concerned [speaker002:] yeah I think one of the things that they need to do more of which I seen a little bit here in Austin though is getting actual people in neighborhoods involved [speaker001:] yeah the neighborhood watch type programs yeah that's one that's the one thing that starting you know the only two things that are really making a difference [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] are when the local people get involved and when they start doing something positive with families families have gone in the toilet in the last twenty thirty years [speaker002:] yeah uh [speaker001:] and it's as though they're really trying to push to make sure they go down the toilet lot of people lot of institutions they seem to be fighting against family [speaker002:] seems to be that way I seems like everybody that we've heard of or know that go for any kind of psychiatric psychiatric help uh every problem you've got is blamed on your parents [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and that to me that's just defeating the family right there [speaker001:] yeah well to a certain extent it can be traced back there and and and that's okay to say so as long as you understand that you got to forgive [speaker002:] I mean if you can yeah [speaker001:] it's not like they doing it on purpose usually very seldom are they doing it on purpose [speaker002:] you know you know out of my own family I I guess maybe I didn't have everything I wanted when I was growing up but I've as I've gotten older I've learned to accept the fact that I got what I needed I was clothed and sheltered and educated and [speaker001:] yeah I had some modicum at least of acceptance and support [speaker002:] I haven't blamed any of my future problems on on on the family upbringing or whatever [speaker001:] yeah well that's the way it was with us we had I had a pretty good family life by comparison I had an excellent family life by comparison to a lot of people out there it may not have been perfect but they did what they knew how to do and they did it the best they knew how so [speaker002:] yeah it's just I like I can't ever imagine my son committing a crime and I think he knows that you know that that's just something that not in in his world but there's so many people out there that do commit violent crimes and and small crimes and think nothing of it it's [speaker001:] yeah yeah I mean considering the conscious it seems to go it it it almost invariably does start with the destruction of the family I mean almost invariably children aren't taught respect they're not taught discipline they're not taught the need to

[speaker001:] Colorado Springs. [speaker002:] Oh, right, up in, uh, T I out there? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Oh, right [NOISE]. [speaker001:] Did you hit one. [speaker002:] Yeah. I just hit one then. [speaker001:] All right. [speaker002:] Uh, [speaker001:] The savings and loan scandal. [speaker002:] It, I, got to, uh, this is going to be fun. Are you Republican or Democrat? [speaker001:] Uh, kind of neither. [speaker002:] Okay, well, I'm a, I'm a Democrat so I was going to say if you're a Republican, boy we would really have a good time. [speaker001:] I do have some Republican leanings, because, [speaker002:] [Noise]. [speaker001:] I am division one, you know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, I, uh, to answer that one before we get to our subject, you know, I always get a kick out of Republicans who take credit for all the military hardware that was bought for the war and how successful it was, though when it comes to the budget they say well the Democrats control all the money and they're the ones wasting all the money. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] And, I always wondered how they can play the money either way they want, you know. I get a kick out of that. But, anyway, the subject, go ahead. You first. [speaker001:] Uh, I think it's a stinking shame [breath] that there isn't capital punishment for those assholes that stold our money. [speaker002:] Yeah. I, uh, I don't think it's over. I think that, uh, so many other things have taken over, uh, in the media. But, I think it was just plain greed, and I think it was deregulation really when they said do anything you want banks. Go ahead loan your money out, you know. [speaker001:] I agree with you. I think it had something to do with deregulation, but I believe, uh, more of it was just greed. [speaker002:] Yeah. I was talking to someone, I can't remember who it was, but he was a small businessman, and he said that the banks were calling, he borrowed some money and the banks were calling and just looking for people to give their money away. They just got totally carried away with buying property and reselling the same property and, uh, yeah, there, there should be thousands of people in jail as far as I'm concerned. [speaker001:] Well, [speaker002:] Not just a couple. [speaker001:] You know, we've watched and watched T V and seen that a lot of these people were doing things, not just playing in the gray and not just reselling property at a profit, but financing the same property three and four times, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] you know, and the list goes on and on. [speaker002:] Well I, I agree a hundred percent. [speaker001:] You know, of, of just the crimes committed. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] Much less for criminals that should be indicted. [speaker002:] It may have started with HUD too. I noticed that HUD was in terrible shape and that was property and, uh, they lost a lot of money there, and then some of these big, these rich people started to, even Murchison here, who owned the Cowboys, had a lot of property down in Florida. This was several years ago and he lost, you know, all, all of his money before he died. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Not all of it, I don't know how much he lost, but, uh, they were just buying property and buying all kinds of real estate and thinking that there was a bottomless pit and it always would, it always would increase, you know, it always would, uh, uh, be more than what you paid for it and they just never even got conservative with our money at all. [speaker001:] Yeah. It, everyone forgets whose money it was. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, everyone forgets that there are several of these people that are wanted by the federal government currently and are overseas where extradition is merely a funny American word. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I, as far as being a Republican or a Democrat, I think no American could stand for criminal action. [speaker002:] Well now the reason that I said that is because I was going to blame all, uh, Reaganomics for, you know, you spend your way to prosperity and when you opened up the bank deregulation without any controls, I thought, well, that was the philosophy, you know. Just keep spending until taxes are lower, and, I thought, that's not going to work, you know, and I knew that it wasn't going to work originally. [speaker001:] Well, [speaker002:] And, it hasn't worked now. [speaker001:] In theory, in theory, a healthy economy has a lot of spending going on. [speaker002:] Right, no doubt, no doubt. [speaker001:] And, if people are making money, people can spend money, [speaker002:] [Noise]. [speaker001:] and it'll generate taxes. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. I, I, I agree with that, but there's got to be some control and apparently there was, you know, [speaker001:] Well, the problem is, and the problem with Reaganomics is that the people at the top are the ones getting rich. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, for what they would cost and we weren't producing anything. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] We, as Americans weren't producing anything. It was all inflation. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, I'm sorry we don't get into a real argument over it, we agree too closely, but, [speaker002:] Yeah. I know, uh, [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] But, you, you can't say that that was right. [speaker002:] Oh, no, I, [speaker001:] No intelligent person can say that we could spend our way rich. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Remember all we're doing is delivering pizzas to each other. [speaker002:] And, and not high quality ones at that, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, [speaker002:] Well, I do have a lot of confidence in the, the American people and the economy and everything else. I, I feel bad when I see the inefficiency, even here at T I, you know, and I think that the, it, it still, a lot of the workers don't understand that, uh, they need to put out the best that they can because it comes right back to them, you know. [speaker001:] It is a life and death struggle, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] with Jap-, with the Japanese. [speaker002:] I know, and I, when I, of course I'm in facilities, and I work with a lot of mechanics and I just cannot understand why they're just happy to spend their time here rather than produce, you know, and they think that, well, I'm paid anyway so it doesn't matter, you know. [speaker001:] I, I'm very tired of it all pays by the hour. [speaker002:] Right. Right. [speaker001:] Uh, and I'm nonexempt. [speaker002:] Yeah, oh, really? You don't sound like a nonexempt, Jim. [speaker001:] What? [speaker002:] You don't sound like a nonexempt. [speaker001:] What, what does a nonexempt sound like? [speaker002:] Uh, you're too informed. They're, they're very, they're very, uh, not interested. They wouldn't even talk probably about some of the things we're talking about now. [speaker001:] Uh, [speaker002:] I guess I'm dealing with too many Texas mechanics here. I don't know really. [speaker001:] Uh, that's, [speaker002:] I'm being a Yankee, I guess I'm, I'm letting my Yankee come out, you know. [speaker001:] Well, I, now maybe I'm not the, uh, typical nonexempt that you deal with. The badge is silver. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, uh, I am degreed, though nonexempt. [speaker002:] Uh, well that's good. [speaker001:] No [LAUGHTER]. That's not good but, [speaker002:] No, right, I mean, that's good that you're degreed, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] uh, uh, your time will come. We, uh, I know a few people, [speaker001:] No, I, I do not wish my time to come. [speaker002:] Oh, really, what, are you in a tech, like do you do technician work or something? [speaker001:] Oh, no, no, no. I, government tool control is my specialty now. I did P C protection control work for, uh, [speaker002:] Oh quality, okay. [speaker001:] About ten or twelve years, uh, right now I'm just trying to tool crib and chips. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Times are bad. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Well, now, is, is, uh, really terrible. I'm, uh, management level uh, facilities, and when the cuts came, three of us got, uh, bounced back, and so we're just, uh, I'm calling you from work. I'm, I'm covering, uh, weekends and nights now. I'm, I'm one of the manager reps, there's three of us to cover in Dallas facilities and just we're essentially standby and problems, uh, all, all nights and weekends. That's my, I only get one weekend off a month right now. I call it my recession job. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] It's, [speaker002:] Uh, being basically an engineer and liking, uh, doing installation work, well there's not any. I mean there is literally is no installation work going on. [speaker001:] They turned all installation up here off. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] They told facilities they could not work. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I don't care what the jobs are, you will not work. [speaker002:] Yeah, it, it, [speaker001:] And, and, as far as our, you know, our conversation goes, I would really be interested to know how much of T I's problems now are related to, [speaker002:] Banking? [speaker001:] the banking structure. [speaker002:] I think that, not, not only T I, but a lot of it, when they talk about, uh, there was one point I was going to make. I think the last I heard, and I, I have to admit I'm not as informed as them, but there's something like about eighty six billion that they admit. Well, I always double that. I figure well, if they claim that it's going to cost us eighty-six billion, it's got to be twice as much because no one admits their mistakes and so if that's true, it may mean that two hundred billion dollar category that was, that went down the tube somewhere. [speaker001:] Uh, it really hurts me, [speaker002:] Yeah. It's amazing really. It's amazing that, [speaker001:] to realize that a lot of people out there are trying to retire on their home values. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. I know what you mean. [speaker001:] Uh, one of our senior, [speaker002:] Course your value of homes up there are pretty good. I mean, here they're not really that high, but are they pretty good up there? [speaker001:] No. [speaker002:] Oh, really. [speaker001:] Our economy in Colorado Springs fell completely apart. [speaker002:] Well we're in the metroplex here, you know, and, uh, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] it, it, I die every time companies like General Dynamics, they, they lost several contracts and, and, I don't know if you noticed yesterday, you probably don't pay attention to the Bell Helicopter, you know, they were going to have big, uh, award, and Secorski got it. Which was Boeing Secorski, this which is up in the north somewhere, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's northwest. [speaker002:] And, I don't know how, [speaker001:] Seattle. [speaker002:] Bell didn't get it. [speaker001:] Seattle, and also, uh, they do some of that in Wichita, Kansas. [speaker002:] Well, I, I don't, they were advertising here that it was Bell, T I. T I was getting the, uh, electronics with Bell, and so, it was a double. One that Bell is in the Metroplex and two, that T I was doing the electronics for them. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] And, they, they advertised that, that it was T I Bell, T I Bell and then all of a sudden, Secorski got it, yeah. [speaker001:] Secorski Boeing. [speaker002:] Secorski, Boeing, Boeing doesn't need the money. Something, I almost think there's some politics around here, because the metroplex here, in the Dallas, Fort Worth area, the, uh, with T I, I don't know if T I has lost as much as everybody else, but General Dynamics and L T V and Bell have lost project after project, you know. [speaker001:] Well, you realize...

[speaker001:] Well, do you own a P C? [speaker002:] No, I don't, I have one at, uh, the company I work for furnishes, so I can work at home. [speaker001:] Oh, wow. [speaker002:] And it's just an old, old compact, that is super slow and, but it does, it does its job, so. [speaker001:] What processor does it have in it? [speaker002:] Um, I don't know, it's so old. It's one of, [speaker001:] Oh [LAUGHTER] what kind of work do you do on it? [speaker002:] Um, I do, um, television ratings and I process some ratings and put, do graphics for their television stations, [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] their clients, so. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] It's basically just data entry and running, you know, some, some software so it doesn't really have to be anything sophisticated, you know. [speaker001:] Huh, yeah, I don't own a P C but I've, I've, yeah, I work for T I and, uh, [speaker002:] Yeah, my husband does, too, so. [speaker001:] Well, I have, uh, pretty, fa-, a fairly fancy one, it's a T I model. It's an S P one thousand which, has a, it has a fast processor in it, a three eighty-six. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And I, the, the job that I do, I do a lot of training of our customers for new products. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And I have to develop, uh, functional specs and [NOISE], disk and desk top publishing and everything, so it's, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] it's kind of fun, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I mean, I, I always say that I need to buy a computer for the house but I just haven't got around to doing it yet. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, I'd like to have one for the house, too, but sometimes my husband, my husband says usually, I work on the computer all day at work, I don't want to come home and have to [LAUGHTER] work on one, too. [speaker001:] Your husband, what, what group is your husband in? [speaker002:] Um, something with the defense. [speaker001:] Oh,? [speaker002:] Huh? [speaker001:] Defense systems and electronics group? [speaker002:] Yeah, something like that, yeah, they've changed their name so many times I've lost track, so. [speaker001:] I see. Yeah. [speaker002:] He works up in Plano. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] So [very faint]. [speaker001:] Yeah, I work on, uh, printers and, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] the peripheral products division, basically, uh, I work in the airline, ma-, marketing group. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] So, we, we do a lot of, [speaker002:] I didn't even know they had anything like that. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] Man, there's so, they're, I learned so many things that they, they do, they're into so many different things, so. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, I just kind of, in for a while, you know, he had a, he had, uh, one of those, what are they, top secret things, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, where he couldn't talk about what he did, so. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] For a while but then he switched jobs. I don't understand half the stuff he does and, I have, uh, [speaker001:] Is he a programmer? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I see. [speaker002:] Software design engineer, so, as they call it, so. But I have a degree in information management, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] which is computer, you know, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] it's basically the, more the bus-, business end of it than the programming end of it, you know. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] So, but I've been at it for, you know, five years, so. Everything's changed so much I probably couldn't even [LAUGHTER] get a job right now. It seems like it's changed so much, so, you know, they've made such advances in computers, so. [speaker001:] Really. So, uh, does your husband ever use, uh, a laptop or a notebook? Does he bring a little one home with him or, [speaker002:] No, huh-uh, sometimes he bri-, he brought home a, uh, a portable one, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but, uh, it, it quit working so he brought it, brought it back and he just hasn't brought another one home. But they did give him a new computer at work, so. [speaker001:] Oh, I see. Yeah, we, we build, uh, laptop and notebook computers here in Temple also. [speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] And those are really handy, I mean, we, they, they have modems in them, you can send a fax from your P C, [speaker002:] Oh, how nice, [speaker001:] but they're, they're really, [speaker002:] no, he doesn't have one of those, so. [speaker001:] What's that? [speaker002:] He doesn't have one of those. [speaker001:] Yeah, they're, they're pretty handy because, you know, when I travel, it's easy to check messages, just, you know, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] plug in the phone to your computer and dial in and, [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, my husband doesn't have to travel, so. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. Yeah, I just found out I'm going to Denver Sunday night again. [speaker002:] Oh, boy. Well at least you get to, [speaker001:] So that kind of reeks havoc with plans, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] but, it, it's really not enough to become a big hassle. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, that's good. Some people enjoy the travel but I don't think I'd like it, [very faint] if he traveled a lot. [speaker001:] I see. [speaker002:] Yeah, I would love to have a computer, they, but they're so expensive. [speaker001:] Well, I don't know, there, you can get, well, depends on what you consider expensive, I mean, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you can get real high powered stuff now for under two thousand dollars, where, you know, just a few years ago it would have been six, seven, eight, nine thousand dollars. [speaker002:] Yeah. {D You know, } I guess it's not, it's all, you know, it's, inexpensive compared to what it used to be but it's a lot to put into one. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's still, I mean, you know, two thousand dollars isn't just, just pocket change to a lot of people [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's right [LAUGHTER]. No, it's not. It's, it's not pocket change, so it's major. Maybe when the kids get in school that will be, you know, when they start needing something, you know, then that will be different but, [speaker001:] Yeah, when I started at, uh, T I, I was a Summer development student, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and finishing up at school and so those papers really, I mean, it was nice having access to the, [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] equipment to, uh, [speaker002:] Yes, I remember that. I had to do some of my husband's papers because I had access to one but, you know, he, his was more for scientific stuff than for word processing, you know, so, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I did a lot of his papers. Yeah, they come in real handy, that was a lifesaver. [speaker001:] Well, how many different types of packages do you use? [speaker002:] At home? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Um, all I, the packages I, I don't really use, I what I use that outside development that we use most of it's just stuff that's been written in house that I use. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. Yeah. Golly, I've got, up, up at work anyway, I use WordPerfect and Lotus and, [speaker002:] Yeah, I know those two. [speaker001:] and which is, uh, uh, a, a line-draw package. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, I've just used WordPerfect and Lotus and, the most. [speaker001:] Yeah. You probably use or something like that, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] for your, uh, data entry stuff that your, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] talking about. [speaker002:] A lot of the data entry stuff they used, uh, survey system and, and, um, you know, just in-house programs to do what they needed. I work, [speaker001:] Do you get, do you work at home all the time or just, [speaker002:] Well, no, I worked for this company before I had my first daughter, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and they just wanted me to continue working for them at home doing other things, so. [speaker001:] Oh, that, that was, that worked out pretty good then. [speaker002:] Yeah, it did. You know, I don't do, I don't really don't do basic, a lot of what I used to do, I just do, you know, something really minor but, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] it's something that nobody else wants to do, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and it's time consuming. So, [speaker001:] So, it keeps you in the company, huh? [speaker002:] That's right, you know, it gives me a paycheck, you know, it's only like the work's only, you know, three weeks. Goes for like three to four weeks three times a year, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, it's not something that's continual because, you know, the television ratings don't come out, you know, all the time. They only come out four times a year, so but. [speaker001:] Yeah. Boy I tell you if I could bring a computer home and do stuff here, I'd get all kinds of stuff done. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Phone's always ringing and, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] people always asking me to do something else. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I've got a lot of, especially right now, we've got several new products coming out, and I've got lots of documentation I need to review and some I need to revise. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, will they let you take a computer home to work? [speaker001:] Well, yeah, but, you know, I need to be at the office, too. [speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know [LAUGHTER], I've just got to deal, with all those other things that happen but, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] a P C at the house would really take a lot of the load off. [speaker002:] Yeah, I bet. Yeah, my hu-, he took one home when they, when they had it, you know, they had a big deadline coming up and it was looking a little touchy to meet, so. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, well, I've, I've done that before on, a couple times. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But that would make it just that much easier instead of bringing home a computer, you just bring home a few floppy disks, you know. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, that's right. I thought that would be, you know, because it's real nice with this because I don't even have to go into the office I've maybe been into the office once in the past three years, you know. [speaker001:] Oh, my. [speaker002:] They just, um, they just send me everything and pick it up courier or whatever, so, you know. [speaker001:] Man that sounds really nice. [speaker002:] Yeah. It is real nice, you know, I just deal with them on the telephone, half the people don't even know who they're talking to. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But I, you know, worked, I know most of them, well, I can't say that, a lot of people changed around there but, most people know who I am, but I don't know who they are, you know. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] A lot of them just know me by name and phone voice. [speaker001:] Right. Yeah, I've got a lot of folks that I've worked with like that as well. [speaker002:] Yeah, you just know them by the telephone, so. But, well, it's been good talking to you, I think we've got the subject [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, we sort of stayed to the topic anyway. [speaker002:] Yeah, we tried. It's hard to sometimes. [speaker001:] Okay, well, we'll talk to you later. [speaker002:] Okay, well, thanks, bye, bye. [speaker001:] Bye.

[speaker001:] uh I I hope I don't consider them a uh threat because uh uh we sure have taken down a lot of security measures that that we once had um I don't know seems um um maybe a little bit young to remember the uh I'm only I'm I'm twenty two so I don't think I remember the uh uh you know the height of the Cold War and and whatnot but I [speaker002:] huh-uh [speaker001:] I don't know I don't consider the Soviet Union a threat in that uh by any means just because of the fact that there's not uh uh anything that they have to threaten us with anymore [speaker002:] well there not I mean there really is no Soviet Union now unfortunately they still do have a lot of uh nuclear weapons [speaker001:] exactly that's that's true that's uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh the one thing that worries me is is question of stability and control [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh I think it's too early to say you know whether they're going to develop some stable societies there in one form or another [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] or whether this uh old uh Russian tendency to turn their fate over to some insane ruler is going to surface again [speaker001:] sure yeah they didn't they didn't have a very good track record even before the revolution [speaker002:] no they really didn't uh now you know they never really have had democracy there in any sense so [speaker001:] no no [speaker002:] um it's going to take both democracy and economic progress and uh resolution of their nationalist institutes I guess [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] all of that is going to have to happen and if any one of them turn sour they could still be uh dangerous simply because they might not you know they just might sort of lose track of what they're doing [speaker001:] right um I I guess I'm not so concerned about an organized danger uh maybe for the maybe for the simple reason that um despite the fact that they do have uh you know probably a large uh substantial nuclear capability uh I'm not sure that that all of that capability is organized anymore I mean you know just along with it with the dissolution the that the of the uh Soviet Union I think that a lot happened with the dissolution of their of their military power [speaker002:] but that's really part of the danger because they still have uh you know I think there still uh missile uh bases or silos in uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] in uh Kazakhstan probably in Ukraine [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] as well as in Russia uh those in Russia may be some of them in areas that uh may have uh [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] strong local national sentiments because they aren't all Russians you know they're a lot of enclaves they have other nationalities [speaker001:] yeah sure uh-huh [speaker002:] and if even one uh missile silo got in the hands of someone who is uh determined to cause trouble for some for some reason they might launch a missile on someone [speaker001:] I think I see your point uh you have you have uh where once you had uh one government controlling a a a large number of missiles now you have several smaller governments uh highly volatile [speaker002:] governments and militaries and it's not always clear which one of them is in charge [speaker001:] militaries yeah sure [speaker002:] well that's maybe the uh the uh extreme pessimistic view [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um think if uh Yeltsin has a chance and if they can follow his lead in the other republics or whatever they want to call themselves now [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um they'll probably come out of it okay [speaker001:] um-hum uh do you see uh I have not perceived and I wonder if you've perceived any uh uh antiAmericanism uh sentiments uh on any level like you know that that we receive from the from the Middle East for example [speaker002:] what in the former Soviet Union [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um not much I don't think I think that uh probably or uh or uh image there is pretty good most places as I understand it [speaker001:] right um-hum do you worry that we might uh overstep I guess my question is do you do you think that there are ways that we might overstep overstep our bounds and provoke uh provoke anger in the Soviet Union and and what would those what would those steps be provoke a threat [speaker002:] what might make them angry at us may make the people angry at us or the governments or both or [speaker001:] um-hum you know both I guess [speaker002:] well I think if they uh thought that we were taking advantage of their uh current preoccupations with internal matters or with [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] um go ahead tell me what you think do we get our money's worth [speaker002:] hey listen if I had my way I wouldn't pay my taxes not with the not with some of the things that I hear that our tax money is going for some ludicrous things [speaker001:] yeah did you see Sixty Minutes last night [speaker002:] no I did not I was [speaker001:] well they did a thing on the the thirty five billion dollars we waste every year just on storing stuff for the military we don't need and uh [speaker002:] well how does this grab you how does this grab you [speaker001:] it's staggering [speaker002:] um this I I mean I'm I'm a lady but this I heard this on a Christian program and it was uh about the NEA and that's the National Endowment for Arts and they fund they funded this thing this act on a stage and did a study on it between two lesbians and two homosexuals and wrote a report about that with our money [speaker001:] well there are a lot of things that people I think generally [speaker002:] and then it just frosts me terribly [speaker001:] well I think it's interesting to look at um where the money goes and it goes a lot of places where it probably ought not go and and I don't think generally I think what's interesting is [speaker002:] absolutely [speaker001:] that we probably represent the majority of people in this country in terms of their feelings about the government and how it serves us given the extraordinarily large sum of money the government has to operate with [speaker002:] I believe that's true yes [speaker001:] and that what I think is gonna be really interesting is what we do about it I mean we are gonna have to change the people who represent us [speaker002:] that's correct [speaker001:] I mean and I think it's gonna be real interesting to see and and then force upon them uh [speaker002:] heavy involvement from the public [speaker001:] yeah right that's your I think that's the only thing that's gonna change it and [speaker002:] um-hum yeah heavy involvement from the public [speaker001:] our our anger is gonna have to to give rise to to more activity on our part [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um I've I've said for years that there's full employment for the politically active and in our society uh there's very little full employment most people in this country are getting worse off not better off [speaker002:] absolutely [speaker001:] eighty percent of the public according to Bill Moyer's uh recent uh piece for uh Public Broadcasting which by the way is a very good use of government money I think PBS is wonderful but this special focused on the fact that eighty percent of the people in this country are are seeing their real incomes and thus standards of living decline and twenty percent are seeing theirs improve that's not a formula for a better society [speaker002:] no it is not it's lopsided very much so [speaker001:] and the government really plays a role in this [speaker002:] uh-huh that's right they pull the strings [speaker001:] I mean well well they are the people whose strings are pulled and by I guess powerful interest [speaker002:] right the yeah [speaker001:] you know and it's really interesting to see how that affects people because essentially more and more people in this country are not likely to revolt in the way that people used to think of of the voter revolting but people are pretty much getting the picture that some people get taken care of and others don't and they think it's unfair and when they recognize it's their tax money they're gonna do more about it I think I'll tell you one quick uh one thing very interesting CBS after the State of the Union address is gonna open up a telephone line an eight hundred number and people can call in and say what they think about what's going on in this country they expect [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] opening it for one hour that they'll get three hundred thousand telephone calls [speaker002:] I'm sure they will [speaker001:] and I've thought for years it would make a lot of sense to put create an eight hundred number for voters to call and and vent their frustration with government [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] like one eight hundred capitol or something like that you know you just a number you could call from anywhere anytime I think that's coming and I think once once people really start to communicate how they feel things are going to change until then [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I think you know it's gonna be really painful so the question is how soon are we gonna start to get our money's worth and as you said it's how soon we get involved and I think we need to create mechanisms to allow us to get involved like allowing us to call a toll free number and say hey look do it this way not that way or I like this or I don't like that or this is how I feel about your spending my money on art that I don't think is art [speaker002:] yes I understand that but hopefully that the people that are listening to what our comments are take some action on it [speaker001:] well that's the good thing about what is happening because I think more and more the news media which takes a heck of a beating and and deserves some of it is telling us more you know about the problems so the more we communicate hey look we want a change here because you know as it turns out we've wasted a tremendous amount of money on our defense spending in this country [speaker002:] oh absolutely [speaker001:] over a very long period of time [speaker002:] right absolutely [speaker001:] um and uh [speaker002:] we only see the tip of the iceberg it's only you know there's so much [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] of it going on that it would really you know uh set us into a deeper depression if we knew the whole picture [speaker001:] well you may be right what I think is really gonna be interesting is to see how uh we as a society deal with it and I and I think it is what you say it's it's a

[speaker001:] Allen uh the question is concerning the changes in the roles of American women in the past several generations and you know the in their in the society we live in what do you think has occurred there [speaker002:] well I think one of the major changes is the whole attitude towards women in the work place and the role of women in doing jobs outside of the home that's probably even one of the major changes I see over the last period of time [speaker001:] um-hum but uh are are they being given the full uh honor for the work they're doing and for the um oh my gosh can't think of the word but for the what they have to accept well that's that they're responsible for it absolutely responsibilities is what I'm trying to say [speaker002:] oh I don't think so I think it's come a long ways in terms of giving them equal opportunities but I still think in lots of job markets they're not treated as equals in the words in some in some respects the other direction that in some job markets they really don't wanna be treated as equals [speaker001:] uh-huh by the same token most in in most cases women have the jobs with the same responsibility of men who been there before but at lower lower salaries is is that right wrong [speaker002:] yes I think that's generally speaking pretty true and I think that's what we really ought to look at that going is if they're gonna do equal work they ought to get equal pay [speaker001:] is that yes [speaker002:] and that uh they ought to have equal opportunities to advance to those positions and I don't think we've gotten there yet [speaker001:] um-hum yeah what changes do you think are most significant over the past few years any individual thing or is it just a general switch over [speaker002:] oh boy I think it's generally that switch over and I and I think that switch over has been more in the work force I don't think that women are treated as equals in the home as much as they are in the work force I think those women who are out working are probably still expected to carry more responsibility at home that the husband's having them on the other side of that coin picked up as much responsibility at home so they have one and three quarters jobs now [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] whereas the husbands have one and a quarter [speaker001:] I have a feeling that biness with a woman working out at the same level of responsibility as their husband sort of tears into their social or their loving relationship in that uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] the the lady stand wants to stand up for what she has made and her own rights and has every right to do so and this upsets the man because uh we've always been built to think that we were sort of head of the household so do you think that is gonna be uh difficult saying as far as uh marriages and people enjoying each other in the future years [speaker002:] yes yeah and I think also in terms of parenting I think there's gonna be some increasing problem because I think women are expecting husbands to do more parenting and I'm not sure they're becoming any more skilled at it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] because I think it really has put some additional additional stresses on family units [speaker001:] well do you have any opinion of potential changes that may occur occur in the next generation specifically [speaker002:] well I I think one of the things that always happens is I think we'll swing to one end whereas you know where were moving at to the end where a lot of women will be at work [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and then I think we starting to see now some tendency of women at mid thirties and so I was saying you know this career thing isn't all it's cracked up to be and I wanna go back and do something else so I think we'll probably see this swind pendulum in terms of the work force swing back a little bit [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] although so much of it's driven by economics right now people have gotten out and gotten use to two incomes coming in [speaker001:] yes well I actually most lot of women are being hired now instead of men because they can be brought in at lower salaries because that's what everybody else assumes they're gonna get [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and the people well how do you feel about women in uh armed services [speaker002:] well I think they ought to have the right I I have some problems with my own family thinking about my wife going to combat and or my wife or my daughter's going into combat but I have problems with men doing that and I guess if they want to they ought to have the right to do it it's nothing I'd be greatly enthusiastic about pushing for [speaker001:] yeah um yeah I somehow can't do that I well I was brought up in the ages when the ladies were kept home safe secure and made happy and the men went out and took the responsibility of earning the money bringing in whatever they needed and and protecting the household and it and it really still bothers me and I spent plenty of years in the service but it still bothers me to see ladies out in combat or actually out in places where there's two or three of them there and five hundred men around them and how are they gonna protect themselves so to speak [speaker002:] I agree [speaker001:] it puts them in a very bad situation I I I really don't go for that [speaker002:] well I think one of the other things that concern has concerned me a little bit and I think I see some change in attitudes there my wife happens to be a wife who's chosen to stay at home [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and there's a a tendency has been a tendency over the past few years to treat her as though she was somebody who didn't have much intelligence because if she did she'd be out in the work force uh and fulfilling herself [speaker001:] yep well that's not fair because I tell I can tell you one thing stay home sometime and start uh doing some of those jobs that she's been handling and you're gonna learn there's a lot of responsibility in just keeping a home going [speaker002:] and I hope we reach the point where whatever women women chose to do that's acceptable if they chose to go into the work force that's okay if they choose not to that's acceptable [speaker001:] yeah yeah and if they go in the work force they should be treated as nicely as as well as a man or any other person and uh not [speaker002:] as equals

[speaker001:] all right well I have a lot of different teams that I like to to keep in touch with of course Texas Rangers being one of them I mean uh you know you can't live in Dallas without you know [speaker002:] well what are the others [speaker001:] well uh I originally came from Saint Louis so uh the Saint Louis Cardinals are one um I moved to Kansas City see I have I have a tendency to adopt adopt teams when I went go to a team uh go to a town yeah so uh I lived in Kansas City for a couple years and I adopted the Royals I lived in Houston for two and a half years so I adopted the uh [speaker002:] well it's helpful [speaker001:] uh the Houston Astros so I mean you know I've got quite a few [speaker002:] well do you keep up with the statistical stuff [speaker001:] no I don't I don't get into that too much every every once in a while I will keep in in touch with maybe like who's in the top five of hitting or something like that but I don't get into you know how many errors somebody has or things like that [speaker002:] well there's there's a guy on that was on Norm Hisken's show that I listen to going to work in the morning who does uh uh it's essentially trivial statistics but they've got a statistic it's a statistic that has to do with winning [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and losing one run games [speaker001:] I've heard of that one [speaker002:] and apparently the Rangers last year won a lot of one run games [speaker001:] well I didn't know that that's supposed to be a real good statistic uh [speaker002:] well it it it is but it's the it's it's a reverse indicator [speaker001:] well that's true they don't have the offense to uh to get out or to have the the more runs so [speaker002:] well what the what the argument is and it it it it's one of these statistical gee how can you draw a conclusion from it but they find that that that there's a connection between that and how they do in Spring training the following year [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh it's strangely enough it's almost like the law of averages catches you on the following year [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] which means that if you have a good year winning one run one run games that the following year you'll have a bad year and they they've got um they've looked at I think twenty three teams uh and and the uh the statistics are something like twenty one out of twenty three it was which means that the Rangers are going to have a terrible year I think [speaker001:] which I was kind of leaning toward anyway to tell you the truth [speaker002:] well I mean and it's uh I don't know what do you what do you think of Incaviglia's uh loss [speaker001:] I kind of think it was necessary I mean I I I I don't I'm not a a big um pure power hitter anyway I mean I don't like these guys that get up there and swing for the downs every time I mean uh I think that uh that a player ought to hit a home run if he's got the pitch to do it but when you get two strikes on you you have a tendency you know you should you know shorten your swing a little bit you know if it's a perfect shot go for it but I mean you know the strike outs were a big problem for him and uh plus supposedly what I heard he was not much of a team player anyway so [speaker002:] well it it's an interesting concept though when you look at uh of of how baseball how apparently I was reading in the paper tonight that the Detroit Tigers are going to sign him and uh and the point of of I I guess I don't understand the the strategy of how baseball works but it seems that you know they can sign him tomorrow and he could go in the team the next day and and and they put him in the lineup and he hits a home run and all of a sudden he becomes a hero and and all he has to do is hit the ball I mean it's not [speaker001:] um-hum yeah well that's true [speaker002:] and and all he has to do is one you know hit it once it doesn't he can he can strike he can swing a couple times if he if he fouls it up he can swing as much as he can it's an interesting uh [speaker001:] um-hum right [speaker002:] an interesting concept of of how they do that but I agree with you I think that I think that's part of what uh baseball needs more of I uh I I guess what bothers me is is that when you go um you wait and wait and wait and finally a guy gets up there and blast a home run and that's all the game is I'd rather see the ball hit around and have the people [speaker001:] yeah well there's there's another point to that too they said that um that he was horrible at uh at batting with with men on base now having somebody get up and hit a solo home run does you you know gives you one run obviously but I mean if you can't do it with men on base there's something definitely wrong um you know you you've got to be able to get the two and three run home runs you know to to be able to [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] uh score enough runs to be able win in these uh in this day and age so [speaker002:] yeah well how do you think the Royals are going to do [speaker001:] I think the Royals will do okay they have they have several pitchers that had badly years last year and they are they're these uh cycle pitchers they they pitch one year bad one year good one beer bad one year good Saberhagen has won uh supposedly the Cy I think he won Cy year uh two out of three years and uh you know so he's very much due for a good year [speaker002:] well are they going to beat are they going to beat Oakland [speaker001:] well now see that's a good question I that's I don't know how Oakland's going to react to being uh swept in the World Series last year they could very easily uh take that as a challenge which is the way most teams naturally you know naturally do uh and and just go out and and not give anybody a chance to beat them so [speaker002:] yeah well I go to Saint Louis from time to time and I watch I I watch their sports up there and they're uh they're they're certainly intense about the Cardinals they [speaker001:] um-hum oh yeah baseball is there is there life up there like football is down here I think [speaker002:] you did you actually live in Saint Louis [speaker001:] I lived in the suburbs of Saint Louis yeah [speaker002:] yeah everybody does right [speaker001:] yeah that's true too I think that's all that they have [speaker002:] I had a friend from college that lives in uh yeah it's well I should say on the west side I mean everything's on the west side Manchester [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh out that way and uh went and visited him but anyway it is interesting well how are the Cardinals do you still keep up with them or something [speaker001:] hum yeah oh yeah I I definitely do in fact I've got family that still lives up there um from what I hear from everybody up there they're not going to have a good year because they let too many people go but I've been following Spring training and they're like one of the best teams in spring training so far so [speaker002:] well is that a good indicator [speaker001:] that well it can be it it really kind of depends on on um what they were you know what they were looking for in other words if if in Spring crain training they were looking at all their kids like a lot of them do um then it really doesn't give you any indication but if they were uh playing the people that they're going to play then that might be pretty good indication so you know it's it's it's not a great indication because there have been teams that have just you know come out and just won all kinds of games in Spring craning training and then gone on a you know fourteen game losing streak in the first of the season so [speaker002:] you know what I think's remarkable is uh it seems that what you really need to do to win though is to have a team that has reasonable talent and has some people that have have have really breakthrough years [speaker001:] exactly yeah [speaker002:] and and the question is how do you forecast that if you had to you know if you had to bet on who would be in the World Series I mean it'd be really tough [speaker001:] you can't right the I think the best thing that you can do is go with um the players that are that have the talent to do the best years and um that they hadn't had these uh gigantic uh career years yet and and just kind of assume that you know someone one of them is going to break through eventually so and I I think they said the Reds um this last year I'm not sure that they said that they had that many people having career years [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] you know and and so they may be even better better this year [speaker002:] well well when are the Rangers going to come through with it [speaker001:] uh that's a good question I the Rangers have a have a pitching problem and whether or not they can fix that or not is going to be an interesting question they're doing the right thing though uh they are going with their farm system they're letting their farm system uh build up and stuff like that and [speaker002:] well is there enough money that's part of it I oh oh that was part of Skip Bayless argument I don't know if you read Skip Bayless but a a a local commentary and [speaker001:] um-hum no um-hum [speaker002:] his argument is that uh the ownership is not inclined to lose big money long enough to to bring in the big dollars [speaker001:] um that's probably true well conside ring what I've seen in the last uh you know two seasons I'm beginning to agree with that yeah but I mean you don't have to spend the big money as far as I'm concerned to uh [speaker002:] would you would you agree with that [speaker001:] to win you just have to spend it if it's necessary in other words if you've got a player on your team who's helping your team then keep him there don't let him go away you know and I think that's really what's been hurting uh uh the uh Rangers [speaker002:] uh yeah well didn't Kansas City put up quite a bit of money for their pitching staff [speaker001:] oh yeah they they spent more money last year than any other team in the in the league and they were you know toward the bottom of the league uh so it's like I said spending money doesn't guarantee you uh winning a pennant it really doesn't so [speaker002:] yeah well and that I think that's maybe part of it that that the um and it you know if I owned the team I think you'd like them to do well but the question of losing big big money that what didn't didn't did Steinbrenner actually make money on the [speaker001:] uh you got me I you know I think that there's coming to a point real soon when ticket prices are going to be to the point where the average fan can't go and once you do that you lose everything I mean [speaker002:] well it it it yeah it's it's a little bit like any other sport you know when it starts costing you fifty to a hundred dollars to go to a game [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh you know I mean I I guess as we get older if you're probably going if if you if you compare to go to a a sport a a say you go to a rock concert or or even a performance uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] an opera or the symphony or something uh if you know it but how how often do you do that and I I would I would think baseball probably feeds on a number of people that can go out there you know several times a [speaker001:] right that that's the whole point there're so many games in in a year that they've got to have repeat customers they can't afford not to and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know that's one of the things that I think Saint Louis has done um I mean their you know their ticket prices are you know kind I guess as high as anybody else's but what somehow or another they attract uh so many people from some I mean they're a some it's a small market and yet they attract as many if not more than most uh uh most other cities so [speaker002:] yeah but don't you think there's a the the there're older fans there I don't I don't mean older um you know the fact that that it's it's a better established and that the the city is is is more of a of a

[speaker001:] you do a lot of uh camping up in Utah [speaker002:] uh I used to do more when our children are were younger we'd go we'd go for a week and and have uh stay up in the mountains it was really fun [speaker001:] well in in the mountains up in Utah or where [speaker002:] well in Idaho and we have camped a lot in Utah too but mostly in Idaho we're right we're only about fifty miles from the Idaho border so we've camped there a lot do you camp a lot [speaker001:] well I go camping a lot with the Boy Scouts [speaker002:] oh oh [speaker001:] we do we do several types uh we do several types of camping one type of camping we do is called a Base Camp where we simply go to camp set it up and spend the weekend the second type of camping we do is backpacking where we simply go to an area backpack in spend a night or two and then backpack out and then a third type of camping we do has to do with uh aquatics [speaker002:] aquatics [speaker001:] well canoeing for the most part we we we take a long [speaker002:] oh um-hum [speaker001:] trip every June on the Buffalo River in Arkansas for about nine days of canoeing [speaker002:] is that with older scouts then [speaker001:] uh no the scouts have to have achieved the rank of First Class which they generally get done after a year and then they're eligible to go on the trip [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] so we'll have boys on the trip that'll they all should be twelve by the time we go all ranging all the way up to seventeen [speaker002:] oh yes I have five boys that are Eagles so they've done a lot of camping too and they've they've uh one thing they've done is gone on a fifty mile hike [speaker001:] well these hikes that we've taken our boys uh generally are about six six to ten miles but uh they'll go they have the chance to go to Philmont in July and then they'll do the fifty mile or whatever hiking then [speaker002:] oh oh well our camping is just with the family we've well part of the time we've been in trailers and part of the time we've been in tents but uh we've uh and then when we've we've been camping we floated down the Buffalo River in Idaho and done things like that [speaker001:] you have you have a Buffalo River up there too huh [speaker002:] in Idaho uh-huh [speaker001:] I wonder if they're connected to the one in Arkansas [speaker002:] oh I would doubt it I think this empties into the Bear River [speaker001:] well we do some family camping too where we just all go for a weekend but we only have time to do that a few times a year because the scouts go camping [speaker002:] you sound like you're a very active Scout Master [speaker001:] well assistant at the moment [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] uh but we're very we're very busy because we go camping every month except February and and then in July the boys either go to regular camp or to Philmont and the other months we all go camping [speaker002:] my goodness where's Philmont [speaker001:] uh Philmont's up near your end of the woods [speaker002:] I've heard of it before [speaker001:] it's in the uh I don't know exactly where it is but it's somewhere in the Montana Montana Wyoming area [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] but we we have boys that'll go there in July and they'll go up there for a week or two [speaker002:] our our son that's our youngest son uh went to a camp called Life and it was up in uh and that's been a fantastic deal they really put out on their own and they're not they can't go until they're seventeen or eighteen but they're put out on their own and they just have to survive camping [speaker001:] here you can go to Philmont but you have to be thirteen as of January first of the year you want to go which is in July so most of the boys that go are at least fourteen [speaker002:] oh well that sounds exciting does uh do you have uh children that are scouts [speaker001:] well I have one son that's a scout [speaker002:] oh how many children do you have [speaker001:] I have also a daughter she's a Girl Scout [speaker002:] oh oh [speaker001:] they don't do as much camping [speaker002:] oh well our our family really enjoys camping they the boys will even we live in along the Wasatch and they'll go up the mountains just above our house and camp [speaker001:] well I'm afraid the nearest mountains to us are several uh hours away [speaker002:] yeah we have a son in Plano that we visit all the time [speaker001:] well that's why they call it Plano because it's just plain [speaker002:] it's terrible [speaker001:] it's plain you can from my office on a clear day I can see Fort Worth which is about thirty five miles away [speaker002:] oh oh well I I when we've been down there I just can't believe the flatness of it all so do you live near Plano [speaker001:] well I I live uh just south of Plano in Richardson [speaker002:] oh yes I know that [speaker001:] which is the next suburb just south going down the freeway [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh well we we spend uh part of our time camping every year we go up into an area and our whole family goes my brothers and my brother and his family and my sisters and their families and we spend

[speaker001:] excuse me oh go ahead Ken so Ken how do you do your family budget [speaker002:] well we don't actually have a budget budget per se what we do is uh sort of maintain a normal checkbook you know like everybody in the world does I guess and occasionally it actually balances and then [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um we also we um we have a a US Air Visa card and then every every dollar we every dollar we charge is a mile for our frequent flier mileage [speaker001:] uh-huh oh yeah [speaker002:] it's a real good deal actually if you charge a lot so what we what what my wife and I have taken to doing is charging everything in sight anything we buy we charge including groceries and so forth so what we'll do is [speaker001:] uh-huh well then you just pay it off at the end of the month [speaker002:] right we actually maintain a we have a savings a savings we have we we we have a checking account that we treat like a savings account scratch that we have a savings account that we treat like a checking account [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and so what we do is we anytime we do or make or charge something we write it out as if we wrote a check [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and then at the end of the month all the money's there covered already so we just pay it off without having to worry about any interest or anything [speaker001:] oh that's a really good idea [speaker002:] it keeps us hopping [speaker001:] yeah see now I'd never get my wife to be able to follow that before we got married I had money in the bank I owned my own home I put in so much money each you know month towards long term savings you know like in uh mutual funds and things you know [speaker002:] hm um-hum [speaker001:] and uh after I got married no it just didn't work anymore uh she spends a lot she likes to spend on anything and everything with body lotion everything so we really haven't uh [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] we don't have a good organized system yet maybe after awhile I'll rub off on her or something I don't think [speaker002:] well you know you know what's you know what's always good is sort of a force savings where they just take money out of you're pay we did that for awhile where um [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] we actually still do it with with my wife's salary where we put it we have a separate a a a third account even um I mean a savings account in an in an entirely different bank where what we do is take [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] money out of her paycheck every week I'm a graduate student uh oh really in what field [speaker001:] yes so am I yeah uh well uh in information systems I'm a voice researcher [speaker002:] oh okay I'm in uh I I work in psycholinguistics actually [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um but my wife's has a real job yeah and what she'll yeah so what we do is we take money out of her out of her paycheck each week [speaker001:] yeah so does mine uh-huh [speaker002:] and and put it it it goes directly into another account that we don't at at a at an entirely separate bank that we don't have access to so easily and it it goes there and it stays there and it builds up until we need it for something [speaker001:] yeah see I think we might have to do that because she looks at what she brings home each week I it's going to be really hard for her to uh not have her own money [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] because like now you know I put money in the bank and saved to go back to graduate school for two years and now she wants to go back to school but she saved enough maybe to get her through August [speaker002:] right um-hum [speaker001:] you know and that's it even and I keep saying now Laura you're going to have to save a little money I don't know if my paltry graduate student fees are going to get us through it doesn't work Ken my mother always said don't argue about money so we don't [speaker002:] oh right Jesus right that's the thing you you you don't argue about it [speaker001:] uh but uh but you know uh there goes my savings but you know I it's one of those things it's [speaker002:] oh God oh God yeah I I got lucky my wife apparently is is is not a she likes to spend but she's pretty good about things [speaker001:] yeah now see my wife will do things like make clothes [speaker002:] oh wow [speaker001:] uh you know one of our one of our big investments that you know was I was wholeheartedly in favor of was to buy a sewing machine because she makes clothes and you know a descent sewing machine will really help her out and and she's already made you know presents and gifts and things for shorts for me and things for the summer you know so I guess I can't you know we've probably almost paid off the sewing with uh [speaker002:] that's great with the money savings there [speaker001:] yeah the savings from that so I can't complain too much you know she she's good about that and also we we dine at home a lot you know she likes to cook so that saves us from restaurants or whatever but [speaker002:] that's good [speaker001:] but she does have things where she likes to pamper herself that just to me seem like money money dumped down a drain you know [speaker002:] right well I guess we all have those things though I mean I uh I uh I I go to uh I pay [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] what I think is a lot of money to go to a karate class you know for the you know I pay up through the year [speaker001:] um-hum yeah but you need a hobby [speaker002:] right exactly so you know that but that to her is sort of a waste but but she does her nails so [speaker001:] yeah that's true yeah I know and those nails are so expensive [speaker002:] I know [speaker001:] oh gosh I was so excited when she decided she wasn't going to do her nails anymore I guess she just stopped polishing them because they were yellow [speaker002:] exactly [speaker001:] and then she waits for them to get their color back and then she'll polish them again I don't know whatever so she stopped for awhile boy what a difference they buy nail polish every two weeks it's uh gosh and lotion oh my goodness body lotion [speaker002:] yeah yeah oh yeah [speaker001:] we spend more on on soft body on on body lotions with sesame oil and all these different things than uh she must spend more on one application of body lotion than I do on soap for an entire year and so [speaker002:] yeah good old Ivory um well it it's for your benefit though right that's what [speaker001:] yeah it's funny oh I think so she's always soft that's true [speaker002:] always soft you know uh so so that's helpful [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah but I I think um I don't know maybe after uh we're not in school anymore we'll be much better at saving I think uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I think that's uh [speaker002:] now do you still own a house you said you owned one [speaker001:] I sold my house and that's what's really paying for my uh time unemployed or whatever you know because the graduate assistantship really doesn't cover the ten thousand dollars in tuition really doesn't cover living expenses [speaker002:] oh that's great right [speaker001:] uh now well we actually live in two different places right now because she has her job so that makes it hard um with you know we're paying double rent and double utilities [speaker002:] right oh wow [speaker001:] and that makes it sort of expensive but see I live within my I live within my meniar menial very menial income and she doesn't she doesn't live within her her professional income you know so I just get a [speaker002:] right there that'll kill you that's the killer two apartments and stuff like that [speaker001:] yeah and and then even if we want to see each other on weekends it's twenty five thirty dollars in gas every weekend and that really adds up too you know so [speaker002:] wow wow [speaker001:] it uh it gets tough but I [speaker002:] well that'll kill you yeah [speaker001:] I think we'll do much better when we're living together and we're only paying one rent and one telephone you know well it'll cut our telephone bills [speaker002:] eventually right I mean you're not [speaker001:] you know yeah by five by four fifths you know if if if she's here so it's it's actually tough this year but it'll be better in June she'll be move live together in June so hopefully our budget will in increase then [speaker002:] right my God have you been married for long or [speaker001:] no just since December [speaker002:] oh wow so you guys really are newlyweds [speaker001:] yeah yeah we're very newlyweds and but that's the you know we were together for probably um [speaker002:] oh wow [speaker001:] uh very close for about six months before we got married so you know we lived within uh though I owned held had my own house and things you know we still uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] we're still pretty close and I knew her spending habits and and they're about the same they haven't changed at all you know my mother always said to me Tom now the best thing to do is be like you're father never say a word when you're wife spends money and I was like well that's true my dad never said a word you know yeah so [speaker002:] yeah I actually encourage my wife to spend money sometimes because I think you know um I sort I sort of feel guilty if you know given that she makes twice as much as I do [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I sort say you know if she wants to go out and buy something I never argue with her because she's she's real good at you know sort of saving and um [speaker001:] yeah I don't I don't argue with her but I just get all I guess I I it must show on my face you know must be like like must be cringes or something you know um especially like yesterday or this past weekend we met half way between at uh at her parents house and um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] she had on a new pair of jeans and she'd gotten all new underwear and I was like Laura how did you get all this stuff she goes well I just got paid and and I was like oh [speaker002:] had the money in their pocket yeah [speaker001:] yeah it was there it was burning it had to be spent you know but she said everything was on sale and I'm like oh oh that's good at least it was on sale that's good honey I'm glad you bought it on sale what else can you say [speaker002:] that's right I do recommend the force savings bit the uh they take it out of your paycheck before you see it because then it doesn't hurt [speaker001:] yeah I think yeah you don't notice it I think that's probably a really good idea [speaker002:] you know you don't even think about it if it's gone you know so uh until you really need it and then all of a sudden you realize you've got a couple of thousand dollars built up someplace else [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] you know we managed do it that way [speaker001:] yeah see I I was when I had when I was living alone and I had my own house and things uh you know I put one I was paid twice a month one paycheck went into savings and one went into the checking account that paid the mortgage and the food bills and it and I was even able to you know to accumulate some savings in a sense in the checking account because I'm pretty thrifty and you know [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but my wife likes to spend she enjoys so that's fine but uh for savings I'll have to look into that [speaker002:] well yeah that's just that and that uh that has been our godsend you know we had some we've had some sort of major emergencies come up you know where um we also own our own house um we had an ice storm up here recently [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum yeah yeah [speaker002:] where it was it was pathetic I mean it was horrible I mean half the half the city owned trees or or or or half the one third of of of all the vegetation in this county is just wiped out [speaker001:] oh really because of the heavy ice [speaker002:] yeah it just it just weighed exactly [speaker001:] it broke the limbs huh [speaker002:] and our um we had to trim our backyard that had tremendous willow tree that it fortunately we didn't have to bring it down all the way but it cost us you know a couple of hundred dollars just to bring the tree down I mean just to take off what was broken there plus we went and lived with friends you know this and that and and then the whole ice storm cost us still quite a bit of money even though insurance picked up some of it [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] still not all of it they don't get you know and that plus and then we had a car expense like that same week one of the cars died you know [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] all those things then they add up and that force savings really comes in handy then [speaker001:] yeah yeah I can see that that's I keep trying to say to her you know Laura don't spend so much what happens if something happens to a car you know she's oh well it'll you well nothing'll happen ooh ooh I always just shut [speaker002:] right

[speaker001:] our topic today? [speaker002:] Uh, yeah, something about the school system here. [speaker001:] Right, and now I'm sort of, don't know if this an advantage or disadvantage. My wife's a school teacher so [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Well, then, I'll, uh, I'll walk softly. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] No. You go right ahead because I, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] have a lot of strong opinions on it, too. My wife teaches seventh grade, and, you know, there is a lot of serious things wrong with the school system today and the teaching system. I think the, I don't think the teachers get enough support, quite honestly. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, uh, for example, my wife, she has kids that are on drugs, and, of course, like everyone, she has kids that get pregnant even, even in the seventh grade. [speaker002:] What school system does she teach in? [speaker001:] Plano School System. [speaker002:] Oh, wow. [speaker001:] But to give you an example, uh, you know, one of her kids will come in and he's, you could tell he was just bombed out on drugs, and, uh, she sends him to the principal's office, and the principal sends him right back, or her right back, and says, Hey, your problem, you take care of it. You're not allowed to send them home. You know, if you do that, then your allocation's cut from the state or the feds or whatever, your, your, you have to have a certain amount of kids in your class every day, and, it's, it's, it's a numbers game. I don't think that's right, if they're, especially if they're interrupting the class and preventing other kids from learning. [speaker002:] Well, I think it's more of a, there's a bigger problem here than, uh, than discipline in the schools. I think it gets back to the, uh, parental participation into the program. [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] Um, to give you an example, both of my children are in the academy system in the Garland School District, and it's a public system, however, you'd think that it was a private school, because I take it, the best teachers and the best students, they're taking top three percent that have tested out, you know, in the district and, uh, put them in this academy system, and to get into the system's very difficult. But once you're in, uh, they have, they have self-paced programs, and so you have students that want to learn and, uh, you have teachers that want to teach, and you have parents that are really interested in the children, and basically, uh, there's probably some discrimination if you want to say that [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] uh, because [throat clearing] most of the people that are in the academy system, uh, are Caucasian, and, because you have to test into the system. [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] And most of, that's not all true, but I'm saying a large percentage of them are, and also the other large percentage is is that all the parents just about, of these kids, uh, have college degrees, at least one parent does. And so there's, I think that, uh, that's my justification for saying that the parents that are, that are pushing their children at home, even if they don't know what their children are learning, they're, they're saying do your homework, let me see it, don't get in trouble at school or we're going to be all over you [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. My son had such a tough time in, uh, the school he went to but, there was through, it wasn't all the school's fault, it was his fault also, but we put him in a private school in Richardson, and that, that cost more, that was five thousand dollars a semester for three semesters, that was more than his college tuition was [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] but, uh, it had to be done, at least it took care of him and, uh, threw him in a good learning situation where he did participate and, uh, want to learn something. But I'll tell you what, there's a, there, there are a few faults, to say the least, in the school systems today. [speaker002:] Yeah. I think what we've done is, um, um, especially looking at, um, the South Dallas area, is that we're trying to bring the education level down to the lowest level so that the lowest level can succeed. [speaker001:] Yeah, I think we have that problem dealing in most areas, which is unfortunate. [speaker002:] And, um, that also probably crosses over into business, because now, businesses also say that if you're not, don't have the proper education, uh, including, uh, exposure to high tech fields [speaker001:] You bet. [speaker002:] such as computer technology, if you can't use a computer today and do word processing and do, uh, data base management and do, I forget all the other stuff, financial management and all this other kind of stuff in your regular job, uh, you can't function [speaker001:] You bet. [speaker002:] you know. [speaker001:] . [speaker002:] So I think that the school system proliferates over to the business world and the business world then says, we're not going to pay you, unless you have the education, and then educ-, and then, then we, what we've done is caused a big problem that proliferates itself. [speaker001:] Sure. Well, teachers, you know, they have a, a tough row to hoe, so to speak, they just, always fighting the system. I don't know if it's better than any, you know, we came down to Texas from the, uh, New York area, we were there for a short time, but my wife is from New York, and she was born and raised there, and educated there, college and everything, and I think, you know, the schools in the east are really a whole lot better than the schools in the south, I don't care where you're from. And they, they, I don't know if they learn more, but they certainly, uh, they have a tendency to learn more, and in that part of the country there is all nationalities,

[speaker001:] what are your favorite programs [speaker002:] uh it's kind of hard to put my finger on a on a favorite TV program however uh one that I've been watching for a number of years is Dallas and uh [speaker001:] oh how funny [speaker002:] and uh it's going to be going off the air uh let's see a week from Friday a week from tonight it's going to be its last show so I've I've kind of enjoyed watching over the years I've been disappointed in it and also pleased in it and uh I was uh greatly disappointed uh when I did move down to Plano to uh find out that the uh the uh great South Fork Ranch was really only a one bedroom house [speaker001:] I've seen the sign that goes to there I've well I think I've seen it in the distance [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but I have not even seen it and I have not seen the program [speaker002:] oh well that's a shame [speaker001:] so and and uh I know when we went to London it was really funny uh people recognized Dallas Texas by the the Texas uh the the Cowboys and by that program [speaker002:] um-hum yes [speaker001:] and that's that's the two things they associate with Dallas Texas so I and I they asked me several several times they ask me why are there two bridges and I didn't know what they were talking about it took me a long time they're talking about the viaducts [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] is that that is right isn't it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] because they ask me why are there two bridges going into Dallas darned if I know I was blank looking you know I felt really dumb [speaker002:] well it it's uh when you look at the uh you know route seventy five coming down there I I mean it's actually a bridge but it's a bridge over top of roadway there's no water there I mean uh [speaker001:] well there's water in the Trinity I thought it was to going to Oak Cliff over the Trinity [speaker002:] yeah well there's there um well they I think when they open the show up they give you two different views of Dallas one from the east and one from the west [speaker001:] oh do they oh [speaker002:] and that's why [speaker001:] oh I see [speaker002:] uh it kind of confuses people but uh uh I enjoy a a a lot of different comedies um I think it's mainly for an escape um you know you uh my job is not the most thrilling in the world and uh I enjoy laughing and uh some of the shows that uh are on the air some are just purely you know brain drainers [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and then there's other ones that uh deal with uh in a funny manner uh socially relevant things and uh one show that comes to mind is like Designing Women [speaker001:] I think that is just a hoot that's one of those few that I do watch and the television is on my husband likes to watch TV it's on [speaker002:] um yeah [speaker001:] I usually read and watch TV [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and usually I can handle both at the same time you know because I am pretty sure where the TV plot's going [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] but that's one of the few that I just actually watch because it's funny [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] I really enjoy that one [speaker002:] yes it uh it has been very entertaining and and also uh the the issues they deal with uh really tends to open open your eyes as well as your mind to some of the problems and uh I've I've really enjoyed that one since it came on um don't like the politics surrounding the program though but I mean other than that you know there seems to be a little fighting in fighting going on between the producers and one of the actresses but uh and then uh I've kind of gotten hooked on PBS stuff uh public uh TV uh I like things like Nova and uh some of the the special programs they come up with on nature and stuff I just enjoy watching that stuff [speaker001:] now we watch a lot of those uh and the ones that sometimes will hook me to put down my book will be the one there was one uh recently about the Gettysburg Address [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and they wrapped a fictional story around it [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I thought that was well done [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and and it it caught my attention I wound up watching the whole thing um I guess the awards ceremonies and there seems to be dozens of them per year maybe I've spent two minutes watching to see what they have on and if they make a fool of themselves or not but uh they could take that whole collection and it would disappear and I'd never miss it for a minute [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] particularly the beauty pageants I I particularly take issue with those I I really dislike those [speaker002:] well I'm one of those rare guys who I I rarely ever sit down and watch a whole sporting event um if ever watch one uh there's just not that much I'm I'm interested in um for a while I I I watched some football but I've just got too many more important things in my life now than to sit around and and watch a baseball game [speaker001:] you know my husband used to just be riveted to the Dallas Cowboys and now we're out running around and if they're if they're playing he'll turn it on while we're in the car to see what the score is and he'll listen but even I've said hey look you're fascinated with this you sit and listen to the Cowboys let me run in here and I'll do some things and I'll come back and you don't have to miss he'll say nah nah nah and he doesn't he doesn't watch it he listen like I say if it's convenient he'll listen to it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but he just doesn't watch them on TV like he used to [speaker002:] well I think it was great when they were you know like world champs and they were doing real well I uh I personally I I came from the Washington area and so I was a big Washington Redskins fan [speaker001:] oh oh those people yeah [speaker002:] and uh when I came down to Dallas it was uh you know I found myself rooting for the home team I uh in fact I have a uh a baseball hat that was signed by Tony Dorsett and Hershel Walker [speaker001:] oh how neat [speaker002:] the only year they played together on the Dallas Cowboys [speaker001:] well I actually got to go see them win in the Super Bowl when they went down to New Orleans [speaker002:] yeah oh wow [speaker001:] and I I I made the trip and did the whole New Orleans before the game and the game and everything and uh that was [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] that was a lot of fun but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I don't know I haven't been as I'll tell you what I love to watch and this is not this is rarely on television but what is a lot of fun to go attend is this arena football yeah I like it's so much better than straight football [speaker002:] hm no I haven't seen that [speaker001:] it it doesn't it has a lot of different rules the field is half the size [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and there's no they can't call time and things like that it moves a lot faster [speaker002:] uh gee I'll have to try to catch that sometime if [speaker001:] uh again I think it may be on cable more than anything else we don't have cable [speaker002:] yeah that's proba bly true yeah we don't either I uh I couldn't rationalize paying you know it's like if I pay for a movie channel then I have to watch what movies they want me to watch when they want me to watch them and if I you know if I didn't use cable for anything else other than the basic well I can get that for free and well I don't really don't need CNN I see enough bad news all the time I don't need to see more of it so I I've kind of uh rationalized that it's it's probably a lot more economical for us to just go rent the movies we want to see [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] and of course when we were living in Texas it was real convenient with Tom Thumb you know having movies uh back then it was ninety nine cents I mean go [speaker001:] oh they're everywhere they're on every corner everything you've ever wanted to see [speaker002:] yeah and you can see them a lot sooner than you can see them on any of the stations like HBO or Cinemax [speaker001:] well and I like to rent tapes because you can put the thing on hold if you get a telephone call or something like that [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] or it becomes snack time for various reasons you can put you know the only thing this Dance with Wolves I want to see it in a theater [speaker002:] yeah oh yes I do too [speaker001:] because I understand that that your you'll lose fifty percent of it if you don't [speaker002:] yeah and I I've been trying to get my wife to go with me to go see it she she doesn't like going to movie theaters because usually they're dirty and uh you know she just doesn't like them and um she doesn't think that she could sit still for three hours and watch the movie and I've told her you know everybody I know that has seen it has said that the three hours go really quick [speaker001:] that's what I hear too [speaker002:] and uh so I'm I'm hoping I can get her talked into it soon [speaker001:] well my husband smokes he's one of the dinosaurs that still smokes and you can't smoke in movie theaters [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] and that has really slowed down the forward progress of going to movies but I haven't really cared up until this point but I we are this weekend going to go see Dance with Wolves it's that's it we will do it [speaker002:] um that's great [speaker001:] so yeah finally [speaker002:] yeah but as as far as uh regular TV shows I mean I've got some some shows that I that that I would be afraid to admit to you that I've actually sat down and watched and then there's there's others that uh uh I I wish I had time to see it's like I enjoy watching Cheers it's very funny some of the things in it are mindless but I I just don't have time to watch it um I think about the only night that I really sit in front of the TV set all night long probably is on Monday nights and because um I work so hard over the weekend doing other things with the kids and stuff and going to work on Monday Monday night I'm just worn out so I kind of use it as the time to catch up on correspondence and and look over things and I can sit in front of the TV set and look at you know do go through my mail and and watch TV at the same time [speaker001:] well I tend my job tends to be very demanding [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and to sit down and to mindlessly either read or just mindlessly stare in absolute comfort isn't as bad as it used to

[speaker001:] W-, [speaker002:] Hi. [speaker001:] Well, what do you think? [speaker002:] Well, providing universal health care insurance for the whole country is a pretty big task and I, uh, personally, I don't approve of it for two reasons. Number one is that I think that, uh, the federal government has a problem with the deficit right now, and if they were to administer this, they would, uh, [LAUGHTER] get us more and more into debt, further than we can ever get out ourselves. Number two I think that the quality of health care would go down because the competition would, would be dried up and really no one would be, would only answer to, to the government to a big bur-, bureaucratic mess. And, uh, I've seen what it has done in other countries and so I don't think, uh, I don't think we should head in that direction. Although that we have problems right now and I do agree that they exist because health care insurance for, for everyone is skyrocketing and it's become to a point where basically no one can afford it anymore. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] How do you feel about the whole ordeal? [speaker001:] Well, I agree that it's a big task, but I think that, I think that the U S should move toward some kind of national health care plan. At least as a long term kind of goal. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And possibly, y-, just starting with more regulation of health insurance and that sort of thing, but I think that ultimately it would be a good idea to, uh, and not have a completely socialized, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] medical system [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] in the country, maybe something about halfway between that and what we have now. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] It, uh, just because it seems that, uh, health insurance costs are sky rocketing, well, as fast as the national deficit [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] perhaps and so that, and [speaker002:] But what, [speaker001:] that's a [speaker002:] What you're think-, [speaker001:] that's a vicious cycle, of course. [speaker002:] Yeah, so what you're [speaker001:] Because, [speaker002:] saying though, is instead of having the national government, uh, government administer, giving health insurance to every man, woman and child with, throughout the whole company, you see more of them as regulating the high costs, uh, that people are forced to pay for it right now. Is that [speaker001:] Um, [speaker002:] is that correct, or do you think that, [speaker001:] Well, I, uh, well, I wouldn't exclude the possibility of the government actually administrating it ultimately. I don't think that that would necessarily be such a bad idea. And, [NOISE], uh [NOISE], [speaker002:] Well, with the, with the costs as they are right now, do you think that the government, uh, because what that would require is for us to pay, uh, more taxes and the, the in-, the people that can afford taxes, the middle income and the upper income will be paying more c-, taxes to, to pay for health insurance for everyone, whereas right now [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] the, the public themselves get health insurance and they provide their own health insurance. [speaker001:] The, well, as it is now, the middle and upper classes are paying more than their share for the health care of the whole country because they're the only people that can afford health insurance [whistling] and so that the other people have no health insurance and, you know, they'll get medical care anyway at least in emergencies and [speaker002:] E-, [speaker001:] somebody winds up paying for that and basically the people paying for it are the people who are buying health insurance so I don't see that anything, that this situation would get any worse. That way it might get better. [speaker002:] You think it might b-, get better, huh? I, I kind of disagree [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] The reason being is, uh, we have, I don't know, I guess it's my, my fear of the national government and also because the bureaucratic [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] rules that it would take to administer it and, uh, the, the health insurance companies right now pretty much regulate and are pretty picky and, and, uh, don't allow cases where they might throw them out of business, whereas the federal government if they took over everything, they wouldn't care because they'll never go out of business. People would still have to pay taxes, the money would have to come from somewhere and so you'd s-, I, I feel that the cost would increase dramatically also. But in the same sense the, the care and the, the attitude of the doctors and the professionals within the medical, uh, field would, would diminish. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, [speaker001:] Yeah, well, I think,

[speaker001:] okay I'll let you start this time [speaker002:] well how much do you like lawn and garden work [speaker001:] well ah even though it's totally out of my ah my degree training I've been working as as in the horticultural aspect uh for the last you I don't know fifteen twenty years so uh I'm well I work for the state as as a groundskeepers [speaker002:] oh oh for goodness sakes what do you do uh-huh well that's interesting um so at this time of the year are you doing much garden work [speaker001:] no mostly snow removal which we've had a lot of but uh I don't know I I guess uh growing up on the farm and and that I I've always had a big interest uh I have a uh [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] when I have an area to do I I always had a big garden and [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] enjoy working on lawns and and everything [speaker002:] well I love to work outside really and I enjoy flowers and stuff I don't do a whole lot of it um at this exact point in my life um because I have two teenage boys and so they do all the lawn all the lawn care [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but I still take care of the yeah flower beds and things like that I was even planning to go out and to uh dig up some hibiscus plants that will not make it through the winter here but you know were planted in the ground since last spring [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and I was going to dig them up for a friend and for some starters for me and lo and behold about five days ago we had a freeze down to about oh twenty three degrees or something [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so the hibiscus hibiscus plants no longer exist and I really feel bad about it it's a plant that we've had for probably twenty five years that these were cuttings off of you know [speaker001:] oh that's terrible twenty three degree yeah yeah [speaker002:] so they're all gone at this point gardening in Texas is really interesting though I grew up in Illinois [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and um Texas is just so hot in the summer and so dry why you know everyone that lives in town and has yards practically has land um a watering system [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and so with that why our lawns do stay um you know pretty nice all summer if you water but in the winter we have Bermuda grass [speaker001:] huh um-hum [speaker002:] and in the winter it turns as brown as a grocery sack [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] and and I just think it's ugly when I go back home to my parents in Illinois in the winter you know and their grass is fairly green [speaker001:] um-hum yeah that's one one aspect of a lot of those grasses they go dormant yeah I think the ah Saint Augustine and uh centipede grass is another one you have quite a bit of down there yeah those two [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah some people have I think it's fescue [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that stays green all winter but they really have a heck of a time keeping it going in the middle of the summer [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] they have to water an incredible amount but um those lawn those lawns look nice during the winter but you know they almost stick out like a sore I guess not a sore thumb a pretty thumb but you know when you look at the neighborhoods and they're all brown except for one you know it's sort of like well [speaker001:] yeah well I know my folks live uh in Arizona there and uh you know they just grow rocks and and stuff there well and that's their gardening there so uh I guess as long as you can have ah some grass there [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so I know I was uh in uh Houston and I I was working for a company once and we were taking care of lawns out there and uh that particular year they had just tons of rain it was raining continuously so [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and then I know with all that moisture a lot of the lawns get a lot of disease problems [speaker002:] yes that's true yeah Houston is a a lot um a lot wetter than than Dallas Dallas area that's where Plano is and um and just humidity [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know just all the time it's an awfully lot more humid [speaker001:] are are you uh able to get uh sometimes a double crops of of certain things in your garden uh [speaker002:] yes uh-huh I think people do yeah I don't have a vegetable garden haven't for I guess I never have here actually but um but yes uh-huh I'll we have Neil Sperry talks on the radio

[speaker002:] so what do you think of uh public schools today [speaker001:] well the problem we're having down here in public schools is is financing for one thing [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] uh and and the uh the tax districts they're in the process of of rearranging the tax tax districts [speaker002:] so they can't decide [speaker001:] and uh some of the more rich schools are those are those schools that are financially well off are going to have to support those are aren't especially in the minority neighborhoods neighborhoods [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] and uh there's a lot of problems with that [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] a lot of debate going on with that [speaker002:] and and and the restriction is it sort of [speaker001:] yeah restructuring [speaker002:] sort of screwing screwing around with whoever is getting what money to what school [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] yeah we actually don't have we have we're having some problems of own up here with teachers [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but um we are we are apparently I'm I'm fairly new to Rochester I've only been here a couple a few years and we are supposedly Rochester public schools are are one of the model the city schools are some of the models for the rest of the country [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] they have very specific programs that um that are being implemented at the moment that everybody is watching you know to make sure that they're all they're all working and uh for instance they have a mentor teacher program where um there are teachers who take a year off or so and gets to go around and and help other teachers learn how to teach [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and things like that but they're having a lot of problems here because um because they also pay the teachers I think much better than others places in the country [speaker001:] yeah that's a problem down here it's uh [speaker002:] they they pay them well [speaker001:] uh not no not too well [speaker002:] oh yeah they there they pay them a little better here I think than most than than than than the national average especially these mentor teachers [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] but they're having a large problem negotiating contracts they have been in contract they have been without a contract I believe for over six months or something like six months [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and they are now putting in you know some sort of federal arbitrator I think or something because they just have a horrible time getting the you know getting their contracts straightened out they have been good and they only walked out once or twice I believe they keep getting you know they they'll go all the way to your table they'll have some proposal and then [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] someone won't like it for some reason or some of them will say vote it down and it just goes but [speaker001:] yeah I think uh someone that really wanted it or I really don't understand or I guess I do understand people that I guess that want to teach teach it's it must be inborn in them or something because they're certainly not going into it for the for the money nor the prestige or whatever [speaker002:] yeah so that that's that that's always I'm I'm actually I'm a PhD student at the moment [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and um it's always occurred to me that that um you know I mean so looking at it so all so I have some bias in this [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but it but it's always seemed to me that that those people who should be paid the most I think or paid significantly you know significantly more are are teacher types because they sort of hold for of the future in our hands than almost anyone else yet yet I don't think that uh it it it's being done I also I mean in general I think that our educational system is okay but I think we're lacking in some very specific areas [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that that need to be worked on I will [speaker001:] I think one thing too that's hurting the teachers as far as recruiting teachers is that the uh they've lost a lot of their their authority in the classroom [speaker002:] yeah how what do what do you mean by that [speaker001:] well I mean uh they no more punishment per se [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] I I'm speaking mostly of elementary [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh you know it's if some if a teacher does anything that uh they're liable to have a law suit against them for for uh cruel and unjust punishment or whatever [speaker002:] that's true that's true [speaker001:] it's uh [speaker002:] but well I think that [speaker001:] and of course you've got the drugs and the uh other problems that you were much more prevalent than when I was going to school [speaker002:] yeah I think actually in any there are some places where some teachers are just afraid to teach you know are they going to or they go to work where they're just baby sitters I think rather than teachers you know they're job is to make sure that no kids get killed in their classroom for that day and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] nobody else get's out so it's hard to imagine a you know I mean I I I can't imagine teaching in a situation like that and actually trying to get anything across to a student [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I'd be more concerned about getting myself out alive at the end of the day and just being happy so I I sit back that the that's one of the main things that sort of happens to be sure up you know in or educational system maybe I do that means you have to have a metal detector and and uh outside the school or something [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I'm not sure [speaker001:] and uh also you know this is purely my my thoughts because I am I'm a Christian and I think when they took prayer out of school that uh uh I think it hurt [speaker002:] well possibly I think it does um I'm not sure I think it does some uh it it it it may sort of lead to some uh it it it may just be another form of sort of regimenting you know in kids which I which I think is good actually to have some kids sort of sit together and you know just say things and sort of do things together so possibly [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] possibly I think that um uh I'm I'm I'm actually Jewish so I suspect that I would be more in favor of sort of nonsectarian sort of prayer [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] in school but I think some things might be a a wise idea just to give kids more of an authoritarian sort of view [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think a lot of kids are having a problem with that today I would would I would agree with you and uh [speaker001:] and [speaker002:] I think somewhat although I do understand the issue of separation of church and state somewhat so I [speaker001:] yeah yeah I do too but uh [speaker002:] so I don't know how you resolve that you know I also I mean I think that our I think that our schools look a lot worse nowadays [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] relative to schools sort of in other countries as well like compared to the Japanese school system I was in a panel that would that addressed the issue of you know science and how our kids they're just very very far behind of science because a lot of them just aren't going into it because they just don't know anything about it and how it's got to be upgraded now is all [speaker001:] well I I believe in freedom of but not freedom from if you understand what I mean [speaker002:] I think so you I I I read a little bit on that that that sounds interesting [speaker001:] right but uh we've like I say we've been redistricting here in Dallas has been a a major issue for I guess the last year [speaker002:] oh well hopefully they'll resolve it soon [speaker001:] yeah they uh they the voters voted one way and it and then uh some federal judge said no that was unconstitutional and they have had two or three votes and the city council is divided over what the district should be because they divide it one way and the minorities say we're losing representation representation and uh it it's just a big battle [speaker002:] well I hope it all works out [speaker001:] but uh [speaker002:] yeah I I I have I mean you say that your your kids are grown up and out of school now and I've yet to have any so [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] so I'm not quite at home with the issues yet [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but I'm sure I'll it will hit me a little harder in a couple of years [speaker001:] yeah and also the cost of it you know not not not great not uh public school but I can't imagine having to raise a kid now and and have to look to college [speaker002:] oh I can't even I can't imagine it [speaker001:] uh in the next you know fifteen years or so later they go it's going up [speaker002:] my only hope is that uh is that whatever I'm going to wined of being college faculty somewhere I think [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and my and my only hope is that um whatever kids we have want to go to school wherever I teach [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] because that typically is very otherwise I can't imagine it [speaker001:] yeah I I just don't see how a person could [speaker002:] it would [speaker001:] could put enough away enough money out of their paychecks to pay for our kids schooling within fifteen years [speaker002:] no I I I don't I it completely beyond me I went to my under graduate uh education [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um on a lot of financial aid and where I am now I'm I'm only in graduate school because they waive tuition and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] they pay for school a little bit otherwise I would never [speaker001:] yeah most kids is probably just going to have to do what I did [speaker002:] be comfortable again [speaker001:] either course the service I'm at I don't think gives a education uh after service [speaker002:] well they give some some financial aid for education they they advertise that they give it you can earn up to ten or twenty thousand dollars for [speaker001:] yeah but uh that's how I got my my education such as it was was going into it is service and then coming back coming out in three years and getting uh two years paid for [speaker002:] that's that's actually a great way I think I know I have lots of friends who are doing things like that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think it's a great way I couldn't I'm actually deaf in one ear so they wouldn't take me [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] um but that is a real a real I mean that's a real good way to do it I think I think that you know these people are sort of getting the money and doing something for it so [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think it's real good anyway it's it's been it was nice meeting you [speaker001:] okay and I'm I'm glad to have met you oh are are work with Texas Instruments [speaker002:] and no I'm not I'm just like you a person on the uh phone [speaker001:] oh okay I was wondering [speaker002:] thing [speaker001:] I guess this is not just Texas Instruments wide cause I worked for Texas Texas Instruments that that's [speaker002:] oh no

[speaker001:] all right um well uh let's see I'm twenty [speaker002:] how old are you Lisa okay that I'm older [speaker001:] yeah how old are you older [speaker002:] older than you are [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] okay we are supposed to talk about places we like to go so I'm gonna and where are you from where are you calling from [speaker001:] I'm calling from uh Provo Utah but I'm from Plano Texas [speaker002:] oh you are from Plano my sister lives in Plano yes her husband is the new Director of Admissions at uh University of Texas at Dallas [speaker001:] oh really oh wow my dad used to work at UTD also [speaker002:] yeah so I anyway so where's your favorite place to go [speaker001:] um generally we just go on family vacations to Arizona my grandparents live there that's generally our usual summer vacation [speaker002:] where in Arizona [speaker001:] um Tempe [speaker002:] okay I've never been to Tempe that's where I'd like to go [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] what do you like about Tempe [speaker001:] um mainly just being with family is it we just hang out and my grandparents have a pool so we go swimming and um [speaker002:] pretty hot isn't it in the summer [speaker001:] yeah but we keep cool just by going swimming and it's fun to be with my cousins they're up there also my grandparents and my cousins so [speaker002:] that's good uh-huh have been to Hawaii [speaker001:] no have you [speaker002:] ha yes in fact I just got some reservations I'm going to go for uh almost almost two weeks this winter [speaker001:] oh my goodness [speaker002:] yes it's the longest well actually I lived there so I was there longer but two weeks is the longest vacation I'll have ever taken there so I'm kind of looking forward to that with [speaker001:] wow around Christmas time [speaker002:] uh no in March we're going to go in March after my children's birthdays and get all that business out of the way [speaker001:] oh okay wow [speaker002:] yeah so I think I would like to go to Arizona I mean I was in Phoenix in January last January but it was rainy and icky [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] it was the coldest it's been there ever in January I think it's very cold [speaker001:] hm so do you travel a lot or [speaker002:] but I would like to go to Tempe do we travel a lot uh some yeah well I've been a I was a travel agent [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] I mean I have been up until just a few months ago but I'm thinking of going back to work [speaker001:] huh so you know a lot of good vacation spots huh [speaker002:] yeah I low I know a lot of good places to go but you definitely need to go to Hawaii [speaker001:] that's your favorite [speaker002:] very definite yes it is my favorite my husband hasn't been to Europe yet and I'd like to take him there and but he's traveled all over the United States and I haven't like I haven't been down south I'd like to go to New Orleans have you been there [speaker001:] I haven't where where do you live [speaker002:] we I live in Yakima Washington [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] so it's cold and rainy today it's yucky [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] but we've had some pretty nice weather we played tennis outdoors until last week so that's a pretty good deal so do you go to school in Provo Utah [speaker001:] hm I do [speaker002:] do you use NuSkin skin care they're located in Provo do you I'm a NuSkin person person [speaker001:] yep I work for NuSkin yeah oh really [speaker002:] yeah I sell NuSkin too I I am my only been best customer not only in best but I'm my best customer [speaker001:] oh my goodness [speaker002:] since we're not supposed supposed to talk about this though is there anything more intensive for the eye area than the eye cream [speaker001:] great uh I don't probably maybe the rejuvenating cream is the only [speaker002:] do you know I have that too [speaker001:] other thing I would use [speaker002:] I'm forty two I need something I need more [speaker001:] than the intensive eye [speaker002:] yeah I didn't know if there was anything else and I use the Celltrex but anyway well yes NuSkin is wonderful [speaker001:] uh-huh good yeah [speaker002:] I think it's a wonderful product do you use it [speaker001:] I do yeah we get free products every month so [speaker002:] oh my gosh that's great [speaker001:] like right now I'm getting about sixty bucks a month [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah [speaker001:] free products so I've worked there about a year [speaker002:] that's good are they good to work for [speaker001:] yes they're wonderful to work for [speaker002:] that's great [speaker001:] yep [speaker002:] anyway so we're supposed to be talking about places to go and you have not been to Europe do you go to school [speaker001:] uh-huh I do [speaker002:] do you ski [speaker001:] I ski yes I've [speaker002:] ski you probably ski very well in Utah [speaker001:] no I don't actually since I grew up in Texas I've only been here about two years and have gone skiing about three times well well five times each season [speaker002:] uh why did you move to Utah you're going oh you are going to school at BYU is that where BYU is okay I know some people that went to BYU that's great pretty good [speaker001:] yeah I uh-huh yep so I do like to ski yeah I I said I do like to ski [speaker002:] pretty pretty down there huh so where have you skied [speaker001:] and it's it's kind of nice being up here just because it's all like a vacation in itself when you get to go if you like that kind of thing [speaker002:] sure sure so you're a sophomore or junior [speaker001:] I am actually a junior beginning of my junior year [speaker002:] you're a junior good for you what are you studying [speaker001:] so nursing [speaker002:] good for you you sound like a girl that has it together I would just encourage you to do a little traveling though before you get married because when you get married you won't have the money or the time [speaker001:] nursing so you think I know [speaker002:] so just you know don't don't be in any hurry [speaker001:] I'm not I'm not [speaker002:] you really should go to Europe I went to Europe for six weeks after I graduated from college and that was just I I mean I could have had that or a down payment on a new car and I took the trip [speaker001:] and it was great [speaker002:] and um I traveled with a group of sixteen other students actually they there was two other graduating seniors besides myself and we just had a ball we stayed at [speaker001:] how long did you get to stay there [speaker002:] uh six weeks [speaker001:] oh real ly [speaker002:] yeah it was wonderful so you should think about doing something like that [speaker001:] uh-huh I just had a friend that got back from Europe and she was there like all winter semester

[speaker001:] Okay. Go ahead. [speaker002:] Uh, well, you know, uh, I think public service is a worthy thing and as a matter of fact there are a lot of programs, uh, such as Peace Corps that promote that. [speaker001:] Uh-huh [faint]. [speaker002:] Probably the most popular one but, uh, one that is not typically recognized as such is the Boy Scouts. [speaker001:] Huh [faint]. [speaker002:] Uh, I know that f-, because my son is a, a scout now and, uh, is thinking about his Eagle and, uh, in order to get Eagle, you have to have merit badges in, uh, citizenship in the community [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] citizenship in the nation, citizenship in the world and you have to do a public service project. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, in which leadership is the key element. I, uh, [pause] [lipsmack] I think the question is posed somewhat strangely because, uh, it's talking about a requirement for [speaker001:] Uh-huh [very faint]. [speaker002:] public service and, of course, Pe-, the Peace Corps, the Boy Scouts is a, o-, is a voluntary activity. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Uh, [speaker001:] I, I think that might be talking, referring to, uh, something, kind of, uh, alternative to the draft, you know. Either you have, uh, military service or some sort of alternative, nonmilitary service for a few years. [speaker002:] Right, of course, uh, uh, military service falls under the category, uh, of a public service. [speaker001:] Right, right. [speaker002:] And, so, uh, one of the things that would fulfill the, at least the nominal, uh, qualifications set forth in the charge is military service or draft. [speaker001:] Huh. Right, right. [speaker002:] Uh, but I agree with you, that probably is not what was comprehended. There are other [speaker001:] Well, i-, [speaker002:] things such as civil service [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, which many people, uh, are lifelong employees of [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] but I suspect that was not what they had in mind either. More [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] of a voluntary kind of thing or, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah i-, i-, for, for years there has been an idea batted around of having some sort of alternative, uh, public service for, uh, young people to go into, uh, after high school. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, kind of in lieu of the draft for, for people who don't, uh, who, you know, are conscientious objectors or don't otherwise want e-, e-, to be in the military, you know. Say, okay, well you can go into the military or you can do this other thing for one or two years to kind of serve the community and, and learn about things. And i-, it's interesting because I, I'm not a particular fan of the military but I have seen a lot of people, a lot of young guys go in that don't have really a clue as to what they want to do with their lives and aren't terribly disciplined, you know, even just personal discipline about what they want to do and they come out and they, they at least have, now they have at least some marginally marketable skills and more discipline. And they have, uh, you know, in, in some cases they have a greater self-esteem because they can say, they can see that, you know, if I do something or sub-, submit my own will to the will of the sargent or whatever, at least for a short period of time, I can accomplish a lot and it, it's a good lesson for a lot of young men to learn. That they don't need to be, you know, cowboys. They don't need to be out there and, uh, you know, constantly flaunting their ego to get things accomplished. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And, you know, for some, for some young men, that's good. For me, it would have been lousy i-, idea, uh, because [speaker002:] Why? [speaker001:] I, I did have th-, the personal discipline. And I went [speaker002:] Why is that? [speaker001:] to college for four years and got out, you know, so. But, uh, you know, for some people that's good. I, I don't particular like the fact that it's the military, you know, and the whole point of the military is to kill people essentially. As, as an instrument of U S policy. [speaker002:] Oh, no, no, no. It's to defend the nation against external evils. [speaker001:] [Snorting] Well, that's one view [LAUGHTER]. And, and, you know, and that, that's another debate. But, uh, it's, uh, [speaker002:] Well, it depends on whether you, whether we figure that we have that we have a defense oriented military or [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] an aggressive, aggression oriented military. [speaker001:] Right, right [faint] and, well, it's, it, it seems pretty aggre-, aggressive oriented, I mean, you, you look at the last mis-, military action which was in the Persian Gulf and wasn't anywhere near the United States and it was, uh, you know, it was definitely a projection of U S power on the other side of the globe, so, at, at any rate, this is getting off the topic but i-, my, my point was that there is, for people who don't want to do the military service, there, it would be neat if there were an alternative that could instill the same sort of personal discipline and sense of purpose and, uh, sense of community that the Boy Scouts,

[speaker001:] the uh whole savings and loan thing seems to be uh a bit of a system whereby the the natural human greed was able to flourish and some people were able to do some things that that uh they they felt that since the government was backing them they could just uh go ahead and make these transactions and make these loans and get all this money as it were and it was rather difficult to catch all if if any of the people that were really responsible for it and even those who were caught didn't seem to get get much in the way of punishment as far as getting a restitution made so it seems like a a really set up you know the whole thing was set up to to be abused and so human nature did so [speaker002:] yeah I think the oh yeah yeah I think the government is it's own worst enemy about the time it was all going on they were trying to run a loose monetary policy anyhow to stimulate the economy and plus they had cut back on the way of government regulators to even investigate or keep a watchdog on the whole industry and uh I think the whole economic situation was set up to uh put the savings and loans in the position they were in and they mainly the banks too uh economically we had gotten into pretty unsound conditions and so the idea of trying to make the money supply good and loose via whatever medium whether it be savings and loans or banks either one was the order of the day so needless to say they did and uh since they didn't really regulate it well or watch it well uh by cutting back on uh government uh uh uh monitoring in that respect then it did get out of hand and you're right you're absolutely right there were some people who saw the situation for what it was and they took advantage of it and uh because of it you and I are the main taxpayers now are going to have to pay not only for the burden of the bad investments that they made but we're going to have to pay for the uh mistakes in the uh uh taking advantage of the system to some of these well really when you get right down to it crooks uh uh took advantage of the system with and yeah they've seem to caught a few I I've heard on TV or read in uh the newspaper about a couple of these guys I forget the the name of one of them but I heard that they did uh prosecute him and maybe a couple of others I think you all had a major crisis down there in Texas right [speaker001:] yeah there were quite a few down here mainly by just because of the sheer numbers that were here and you know the and the chances of getting a bad one would be greater just out of the sheer population of them being here and the whole problem seemed to start start toward uh uh not that California was the instigator of it but it seemed to start out that way and then then work its way here and it wasn't kind of funny that it wasn't a national problem until it hit the east coast [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's always interesting isn't it see he's right [speaker001:] you know when it started hitting the big New York banks and the up then it became a nationwide problem and Congress got to do something but [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] uh Texas is on basically on the way to recovery as far as uh the banking industry goes and they [speaker002:] oh I'm glad to hear that because I've been concerned that the banks may be going the same direction that the savings and loans primarily because uh what got the savings and loans in trouble is the same sort of things that's beginning to get the banks in trouble and that was uh the real estate uh backing in investment and just building in general backing contractors and those kinds of uh corporations uh who were trying to build a lot of uh uh rental business space and uh mall type space and things like that and uh it looked like in the seventies that that was going to be a real booming thing uh a infinitum I guess [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh anybody if they just stop and use a little common sense would realize well you can't soak up this much real estate uh and continue to have this kind of growth indefinitely I mean you you it's it's like anything eventually reach sort of a plateau where you've overbuilt if you're not careful [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] uh and uh it it's as if uh they went crazy just just like in gambling almost [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and there there was no regulation or anything like that uh I I frankly though and and I'm glad to hear you say what you said about Texas because I have been concerned that the banking system uh which is going through some economic difficulty now and with all the foreign investments that they uh put money into also I I've been concerned that the banking system is going to find itself in dire straits or if they even didn't find themselves in dire straits we're going to find ourselves with so much of our money uh lent out to foreign owners who are willing to soak up some of this this uh capital to keep us afloat you might say hoping to make a buck off of us in interest in the future but uh we find our own economic economy even though it may not have slipped into so so some kind of either deflationary or inflationary depression uh we find ourselves having sold out our futures in terms of what we are going to have to pay off all this debt with to foreign investors who have the money to build to buy up all the debt [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh I'm glad to hear that you do you know uh how uh they're beginning to get over the feet in Texas are are is a lot of the money in loans and and the like that uh uh is that being covered by foreign investments maybe or or uh [speaker001:] well part of the problem as I see it uh my family's involved in in both industries as it were I've I've got a grandfather that was in the [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] S and L back in the sixties and the seventies and in another part of Texas and in a uh [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] my immediate parents were both in banking as it were and so uh we've we've kept up with the industry as it were and the the feeling has been in some of the discussions that that get started on that topic has been that you know we went through the the bad times of a number of bad loans and fortunately the the banks and the S and Ls that uh our family were associated with really didn't have that much problem they were fairly conservative and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] they just had to ride out the storm with the the reputational problems that came with the news media as it were and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh there were a number of banks that made the bad loans and basically it's been a good weeding out process there's just been a lot of people a lot of banks a lot of whole organizations that were going to make these kinds of loans and and they are no longer in business uh so you know you you have some all your bank failures that the government's having to take over you know that's gone up in the hundred and twenty or thirty or so for the state [speaker002:] yeah it's been quite a few every year [speaker001:] yeah and that's pretty well leveled off and and the that's [speaker002:] well do you think maybe it's peaked you think [speaker001:] yeah yeah I don't think there's going to be that many more of them I I would [speaker002:] so you you you you would uh predict based on at least your knowledge and experience that in time we'll see the numbers of banks and maybe savings and loans too if they're still failing uh that that that the the number beginning to sort of taper off now instead of a hundred to two hundred a year you begin to see it go down to maybe fifty to a hundred a year and maybe [speaker001:] right right there's just not that many more [speaker002:] what kind of time frame frame would you guess that's going to take to wring itself out [speaker001:] well it's hard to say how many more bad bad systems or bad apples there are out in the system but I would I'd be willing to bet that uh it shouldn't be more than a couple more years that that [speaker002:] oh you think two years I I would have guessed five to ten but you really think two years [speaker001:] well the as far as as far as not having this getting over this peak as it is now uh there's still going to be an unusual [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] you know it depends on how far back you want to go let's say if you went back ten years and said here's a failure rate we could live with well then it may take us three to five years to get back to that level of failure [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] but if you want to just say we're over the hump and we're starting to get better I think in a couple of years it'll be quite obvious that we're over the hump and getting better [speaker002:] well tell me well all this all these bad loans and debts that uh I I know in the case of the savings and loans we're just going to have to pick it up as American taxpayer [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but even the banks and the likes some some of those are merging and uh uh the the the the basic question I'm trying to get to is all this bad money that's essentially not going to get paid back how's it going to get covered [speaker001:] I'm not sure if uh [speaker002:] I mean is inflation going to make some of it go away and the rest of it we're going to pick up the tab as taxpayers or are we going to be able to sell some of these bad loans or pick them up somehow or another uh uh by foreign investors uh buying pieces of our our economy like buying some of our been to some of our banks uh like the things that uh I forget the guy's name downtown here uh was involved in those two banks I think that was in Georgia or someplace uh what what what how do see that this this indebtedness of which is bad loans and the like just not going to get paid back at least by the people who caused the debt uh you you can't just write that off completely you can write off a certain part of it I guess but you just can't just write off the whole somewhere along the line you've got to recoup some of that money some of the even if it's twenty five to fifty cents on the dollar [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] how how how's that going to happen [speaker001:] well like one guy I heard just talking earlier this week on the topic was saying that that there wasn't any one given uh you know sort of like a uh suit guy making a uh suit for you it it's custom made to the individual situation if you you don't try to find well write off all these to the government or have have the the entire uh bank failure covered by the government so you you take each individual situation yeah and if you can find a foreign investor or if you can find any investor that'll that'll finance I guess that's what the majority of the uh RTC is doing is trying to [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] to resolve all these individual cases in any way possible I mean they're looking for [speaker002:] how good a job do you think they're doing because you know there's been quite a bit in the various news magazines up here and even the Washington Post and various places about uh how they felt that the uh the people on the committee were sort of selling out at uh exorbitantly exorbitantly low prices to some rather astute investors some of this had been misinterpreted who were tending the who were really tend to make the nice killing off that how do you how do you feel about that [speaker001:] well I was I was talking with another gentleman about that same topic it's hard to get a feel for what's going on in a nationwide uh system like that when the news media reports the segments that they report you know you hear [speaker002:] yeah mainly they look for the the wild news [speaker001:] yeah you hear things like uh the

[speaker001:] okay where were where were you from [speaker002:] um just here in Dallas [speaker001:] oh okay because I uh I talked to a professor in uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] what was it North Carolina who got the the TI system and he gave to all his students so my daughter's even talked to and I've talked to several people from North Carolina I was just curious [speaker002:] that's yes yes that's true I've talked uh-huh people from Virginia and and all over yeah [speaker001:] have you too yeah I talked to the professor and I asked him about it and he said oh he says I think I'm the guy that actually uh gave it to all my students so that's why so many people are from this college uh go ahead you you first [speaker002:] uh-huh oh okay um well the subject we're supposed to be talking about let's see is uh food [speaker001:] food [speaker002:] what type of foods do do you cook and what would you uh cook in uh uh let's see if you were giving a dinner party and the only reason why I may know a little bit about this is that I'm planning on having a barbecue pretty soon and to me that's the type of thing that I like to [speaker001:] oh great [speaker002:] give in um uh cooking for people and uh if he's cooking outside where it's cooler and uh you don't have to do all that much work you know you just uh slap on some food and slap on some barbecue sauce and away you go [speaker001:] yeah we have them too and I I'm trying to think which is the best uh that I prefer uh my wife uh doesn't like to have all that work on the very day that you're doing it uh and we haven't catered out very much uh we would I always worry about the barbecue in that you have to be the man always gets that chore and you have to make it perfect uh I've made shish kabob which I like it's fairly easy and fast [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh where I guess I'm thinking of the easy thing to do [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] for for having uh uh a dinner [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I do cook but not I'm mostly the easy cooker you know the breakfasts and and the steaks uh although I would like to experiment with uh [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] the meals my mother made you know so to speak and I haven't gotten around to that yet uh [speaker002:] uh-huh what kind of meals did she make that you liked [speaker001:] well she was Polish and uh she would make very economical meals we were very poor different rice and ham and things that uh she would throw things together [speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker001:] and galunkies and all that and uh I would like to try that one day and she would make spaghetti with pork chops and and special meat balls and everything and my wife of course thinks I'm crazy which I may be too but uh [speaker002:] huh no sounds interesting uh-huh yeah that's great [speaker001:] yeah but dinner parties are a lot of work uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah but uh that's that's why I like the the outdoor stuff a a lot better people can entertain themselves I think a great deal [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] more uh when you have a barbecue especially when you have hot dogs and hamburgers and uh you know nothing really fancy like your your shish kebabs where you have to do a whole bunch of work [speaker001:] yeah yeah well that that shish kabob is uh just because it only takes a few minutes to cook you know you get it ready you have to do a lot of work beforehand I agree and buy special stuff but uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so far as getting out there and and putting it on it only takes a little a few minutes uh but anyway I'm I'm thinking of the easy way rather than my guests I guess but uh [speaker002:] right yeah yeah well I I think you do do a lot of work even if people do bring over things you still do uh all the uh housework and get everything everything prepared and utensils and just just everything [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] uh but you know my mother used to make an Armenian rice dish I'm thinking about uh special dishes and uh yeah it was made out of rice and consume soup uh and bacon and onions [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah oh yeah [speaker002:] and then you'd simmer it like all day long [speaker001:] right you'd get the odor of it yeah [speaker002:] oh it would because yeah and it was just it was just wonderful that's that's something that I would really like to uh to try and find the recipe for but we used to have that at Thanksgiving time [speaker001:] uh-huh yes [speaker002:] because you can you can put it on top of the stove and do this and and there's so much broth and juice in there that it has to uh soak up into the rice all day long in order for it to uh uh to come out fluffy and and nice [speaker001:] oh great [speaker002:] and that was you know when you were talking about the the Polish dishes uh some goulashes and things like that that's uh that's what I thought about was that Armenian rice dish [speaker001:] oh yes we probably ought to try this but it probably will never taste as good as we remembered I guess it gets better and better as we remember it back as we get older you know but we probably should try it uh to do that [speaker002:] that's true that's true [speaker001:] the recipes are really interesting you know we're probably going to lose them we'll probably forget all about them you know since we're trying to make everything so simple here I am talk about trying to make everything easy you know [speaker002:] um-hum right right [speaker001:] I uh you talked about Thanksgiving there are interesting meals at different times uh something see my wife's from Texas so uh remember we were first married and we were living in New Jersey and uh we were going over to my mother's house for Christmas you know to have a meal and we were on the way over we were just married that very year and she said oh I'm looking forward to a nice turkey I said turkey I said we don't have turkey at Christmas I said we only have turkey on Thanksgiving I said we're going to have a ham she said what [speaker002:] um-hum oh uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] I said yeah I said no turkey is only for Thanksgiving and because she had turkey a lot you know and uh that was surprising in the in the east uh we always had ham you know [speaker002:] uh-huh right right [speaker001:] and and and that's one thing also that's another recipe I guess we could talk about now the hams just kind of you know go take it out of a can or or uh a package sliced uh the cans were cooked for hours and hours and and were just wonderful you know I I'd like to try that too [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah you know what I found was at Sam's uh wholesale uh stores and uh what they have is this honey baked ham that have you seen have you had any of those [speaker001:] yeah oh yeah I saw them that's good no I I uh I I've I know about but I think goes [speaker002:] if if you ever get a chance to buy one of those I think it was uh twenty dollars for uh I don't remember how many pounds it was but you cook it in the bag that they send it in and all the juices and everything are all sealed in and I tell you what if [speaker001:] um-hum oh really [speaker002:] it's never failed to come out tender and juicy and just and just delicious because I normally don't like ham because it's so salty [speaker001:] oh I haven't heard of that yeah yeah [speaker002:] but with this honey bake that they have that that's the only one I have been able to find there at Sam's warehouse it is absolutely delicious and it slices great um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] oh yeah I'll have to ask her about that uh because we have a delivery guy that comes around that sells I can't think of his name of it uh I don't know I see a can here or a box here Gourmet Choice uh he delivers uh what is the name of this thing I got a box where is it distributed marsh it doesn't say Gourmet Choices but he but it's a company that has uh you know a truck that comes around and and they recently had hams they have steaks and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh actually pierogies and all that stuff that uh I I never I wish I could tell you the name of the company but I don't know what it is but uh they recently had a ham that was supposed to be it was boneless and we tried it it was real nice and it was fully cooked and everything we had it for breakfast a long time it was really great [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum wow you know that sounds like it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but that's that's the only ham I have found that I thoroughly thoroughly enjoy [speaker001:] I would like to try the old recipe though of cooking it and and I keep saying this uh to to do the different things that we did but I would like to put one in the oven you know the old fashioned way and put it in there for hours and hours and see if because I don't think in in my married life which is uh twenty six years now we've never done that you know and I remember that when I was a kid uh to have the ham cooking uh rather than that we just ham is just something you have for breakfast occasionally you know and that's it you know [speaker002:] wow um-hum right [speaker001:] in the old days we had hams were the meal and I don't I don't think we really have it as a main meal [speaker002:] right that's true I I don't think so anymore not with more becoming more conscious of uh fat and cholesterol and and all those good things [speaker001:] right yeah that's an interesting point how how have you changed your your meals now have you into that uh looking at those things [speaker002:] uh-huh oh yeah well my parents actually started it and uh getting [speaker001:] uh-huh parents that's unusual [speaker002:] well it it's true I think my parents are very unusual because uh we grew up in the south where uh you have all the um you know biscuits and gravy and oh fried foods galore and then gradually they started switching over to um plain rice um [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] no gravy it's just it really is they uh they're actually they actually uh uh led us through it versus um [speaker001:] that's amazing [speaker002:] us teaching them you know the uh the finer points but my mother has really high cholesterol so it was one of the reasons which started them off and they started doing this like in the early or in about the middle seventies uh yeah [speaker001:] yeah well that's amazing they'd go that they have started usually it's the younger people doing it yeah [speaker002:] it's true it's true I agree with you so it's really neat [speaker001:] I uh my my wife's mother is the only grandparent left and uh she has high cholesterol of course I have I have too but not like hers [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and I always get after her about salt and everything else and she just will I mean she's going to eat the same way she ate you know her whole life and she just tells more or less tells me to shut up you know [speaker002:] that's right right [speaker001:] and uh I like to I'm trying to do something about my cholesterol in the same way uh [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] uh it's it's not the I listen to uh Larry Newarth on the weekend he's a fitness expert and uh he talks about you know the chicken and the rice and everything else and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh throwing away peanut butter and all the things things not to eat you know ever I think the peanut butter and mayonnaise he would throw away forever and then he's got me into making eggs without the yolk [speaker002:] wow um-hum [speaker001:] you know try that sometime my wife says she can't stand it but uh when I make scrambled eggs now talking about a recipe [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I say if I have four eggs not not for me but if I'm making four eggs uh even for my daughter and I I'll take out all the yolks but one [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] and it's fine you you don't miss it uh in fact when I when I make eggs for myself [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] if I if I fry them throw them in there I will almost hard fry them so I can take not eat the yolk at all [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and you don't really miss it you get the flavor of the yolk but uh you don't eat it at all you know you don't or hardly you get like uh a bite at at the the most [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and so uh for cholesterol I mean I'm trying that and it has worked my cholesterol gone down twenty points uh although [speaker002:] wow that's good [speaker001:] I haven't gotten on the which whether was it butter or cholesterol not cholesterol margarine and all that I don't know know whether any of that is true you know whether the margarines are butter [speaker002:] uh-huh

[speaker002:] just outside of Dallas [speaker001:] uh-huh my mother used to work at the Plano location I think she moved back down into closer into Dallas [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so okay let me let me hit one hold on a second here [speaker002:] okeydoke well punch one we'll get started okay [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] okay I guess my my favorite eating out uh food is Mexican food [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] Tex-Mex not real Mexican food that real Mexican food is too hot [speaker001:] um okay uh my favorite I have a lot of favorites I like to try a lot of different things uh there's very few foods that I don't like I don't like asparagus and beets and anything else I can pretty much eat uh recently I went to a French restaurant and I had something called uh spinach fettucini and crawfish [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] and it was so delicious I've been talking about it it's my birthday and I've been talking about it ever ever since it's been about a week now I've been talking about this plate of food and uh the real important part of it for me in a restaurant is the service [speaker002:] huh uh-huh [speaker001:] uh in this particular French restaurant was our problem to be going back again and again uh they were three waiters that waited on the entire restaurant they just all kept an eye on all the tables [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and something that really impressed me was that I asked one waiter for butter and then the next second another a different waiter brought the butter out and and they hadn't even talked or anything and it was it was really amazing and so that really impresses me the service in a restaurant [speaker002:] yeah yeah well I I like a restaurant I like a restaurant that uh not necessarily for atmosphere you know uh the atmosphere isn't worth a dime if the food is good and the service is lousy [speaker001:] uh-huh exactly [speaker002:] and this little old Mexican restaurant we have right up here from the house I I don't guess it'll hold more than twenty people [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and it's just a little small restaurant pardon me and it's uh just kind of like a hole in the wall but the food excellent [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and and the service is just excellent and the price is very reasonable [speaker001:] and that's probably not a chain restaurant [speaker002:] it's not a chain it's a little a family owned restaurant [speaker001:] I find that most most family owned restaurant or or single restaurant you get the best service simply because that restaurant belongs to somebody it it it has the family name on it [speaker002:] yeah right [speaker001:] and so whoever's in there is going to take care of you as opposed to going into a chain restaurant where they're just hiring you know people out of that really don't probably don't care too much about the establishment so they're not going to worry about taking care of you [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] whereas someone that actually is there that owns it that you know has been working there for twenty years or so they want they want you to be happy so you get the service and you know of course with that will come the good food [speaker002:] yeah yeah plus you you can go in after you you've you've uh uh gone to the place quite a few times uh they get to know you and uh uh you know appreciate you and say hello to you and how are you doing and [speaker001:] uh-huh exactly exactly [speaker002:] and all you got to do is sit down and say we'll have our usual [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh you know it's just it's real nice and [speaker001:] exactly the guy that took me out to this French restaurant he works in a hotel nearby and he just happened to mention to the waiter that he sends a lot of the people from the hotel over to the guy's restaurant [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and and at the end of our meal you know we're ready to go and we're full and this guy sends us a platter of each dessert [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] that the restaurant has so it was like ten desserts on one plate and he just gave it to us to eat of course we couldn't eat it but you know he just did this and so the next time when we come in he'll probably remember us [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] just because we looked so weird at the dessert you know but that that was [speaker002:] yeah plus you go you go to a big fancy restaurant and uh uh some of the price that you pay for the meal is strictly for the decor and for the atmosphere and you can't eat that [speaker001:] exactly exactly exactly one of my favorite restaurants is Steak and Ale now that's a chain sort of a chain restaurant [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] but they seem to I like I like atmosphere myself and and their food is good and I really like the salad bar and that that gets me in a restaurant if there is really good salad bar because I love salads and soups and things like that [speaker002:] yeah and I guess it depends you know if if it's just you and your husband going out to eat uh unless it's uh anniversary or something like that atmosphere doesn't mean that much but if you're taking another couple or taking relatives or friends or something you want the place you know to be nice [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] but uh and also we we uh [speaker001:] I would [speaker002:] I I wasn't too much on Chinese food until I tried it and I really liked it [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and I even bought me a wok and doing my own doing my own Chinese cooking now but [speaker001:] did you just recently try it uh-huh [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah we've tried it a couple of time and even had uh uh relatives over and I cooked some out of that and boy they just lapped it up [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh all right wow maybe I need to get me a wok and have some people over [speaker002:] but uh we saw this one advertised on TV it's uh uh real real good wok it's hand hand uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] pounded not hand carved hound hand made of iron [speaker001:] right right um [speaker002:] it's not one of these aluminum or steel woks that you buy [speaker001:] probably that it heats up real good and uh-huh [speaker002:] heats up real good and and the meat and stuff doesn't stick to it like it will uh uh aluminum or uh stainless steel [speaker001:] um and that was on a television advertisement one of them nineteen ninety five deals yeah okay [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah [speaker001:] that sounds good yeah I don't like I've tried probably just about everything just because I don't like to [speaker002:] and it uh yeah [speaker001:] you know I don't I hate one thing I hate to do in a restaurant is to be with someone that want try things [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] because I'm also wanting to anything that they have I will try and uh you know sometimes I may not like it but I feel like I miss out you know if I had gone a long time without trying Chinese food I would have had to try it one day just because I hate to miss out [speaker002:] yeah well I love I love those fried vegetables [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] especially the uh watercress and the crunchy the crunchy ones [speaker001:] yeah yeah the little crunchy things I never know what they are I just call them the crunchers [speaker002:] yeah huh yeah we like uh we like seafood too and we found a little ole another little ole hole in the wall that makes excellent fried catfish [speaker001:] so uh-huh um [speaker002:] boy it's good [speaker001:] that sounds good I love catfish [speaker002:] yeah I do too [speaker001:] uh-huh and I love shrimp and [speaker002:] we haven't tried any of their seafood and we again had some relatives here last week and we went took them there she had never had catfish she was from Connecticut [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh she had never had channel catfish [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] and she tried the scallops I asked her if they were any good because I new the scallops were probably oh you know not local like catfish is [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] but uh she said they were very good [speaker001:] um yeah I don't like scallops too much their they have kind a funny taste I can eat them but they're [speaker002:] and she yeah well being from Connecticut they're they're use to fresh seafood like shrimp and lobster and stuff like that [speaker001:] uh-huh hum yeah yeah yeah I'm originally from New York I grew up there so I got to eat a lot of uh I mean just fresh fresh I mean one [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] one day we were out just driving and they are always uh oriental people with their little stands [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and they're selling things and we decided we were going to buy this thing we didn't know what it was we got in the car and opened it up and started eating it and it was really really good and we figured out that it was octopus [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] you know so we all kind of freaked out but you find all kinds of seafood things in up there where all the [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] uh harbors are and things [speaker002:] I never have tried octopus it sounds looks like it would be good because it's all meat there's no bones to it it's not [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah there's not a whole lot of taste it's just basically meat and there's not a lot of taste not a lot to eat not to like you know so unless you think it's bland or something [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah one of these days I would like to try a rattlesnake too I've heard that it's delicious [speaker001:] um ah now that's something I may not try yeah I've heard that's good I've heard frog legs are good I haven't had any of those yet so I'll have to try those one day [speaker002:] but uh oh I love frog legs yeah frog frog legs are good of course you know you ask somebody what meat taste like just about any meat you ask them had a it taste like they say like chicken [speaker001:] uh-huh exactly [speaker002:] but uh it does it's similar to chicken but the meat [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] the meat is sweeter [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and if you've ever I use to go frog gigging as a kid and gigging the frogs and then uh and get their legs [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] and the meat is it's crystal clear meat it's beautiful meat [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] now it is a little bits stringy [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh because of uh because simply they're frog legs because they you know they have the muscles and so forth [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] but it's it's it's sweet meat [speaker001:] um I think my favorite meat is lamb [speaker002:] now I don't I don't care a whole lot about lamb [speaker001:] no I think I think it's it's got I like the texture of it is why I like it not so much the taste but the texture it's not real chewy or [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] I mean it's just real good to me I can't really describe why but [speaker002:] yeah lamb or veal I'm not real crazy over it [speaker001:] yeah I like veal too [speaker002:] but uh while I was I I've worked for Texas Instruments out in Ridgecrest California for eight years and one time we went down to uh Bakersfield [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and there was a Basque restaurant B A S Q U E [speaker001:] um uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh we stopped there and ate and I wish I could find another one here [speaker001:] um I bet [speaker002:] oh it was good they serve it family style everything in

[speaker001:] what do you think about the benefits in jobs [speaker002:] um I'm I'm relatively relatively satisfied with the benefits I have I think that um our health insurance is terribly expensive [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I'd rather that we got a bit more coverage for a lot less money but um you know that's that's my major complaint I guess what about you [speaker001:] yeah and a lot of times they turn down your claims so that leaves you paying for all of it [speaker002:] uh-huh or or maybe that it's not understood what should be covered and what isn't [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] yeah I [speaker001:] right the the health insurance I have is MetLife and if it's the type that if you go to a certain doctor then uh you just pay ten dollars and then uh the insurance pays the rest of the bill or if you go outside you get uh seventy thirty [speaker002:] I see now we I have just the regular insurance so that any doctor is covered but what I found recently is what they've been doing is they they poll somehow the area and then they have what they consider a justifiable price for the area where your doctor is located based on zip code [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and so recently when when we had a claim um they didn't pay the eighty five percent they paid much lower and when I called they said oh well that's because your doctor is charging much more than the norm for the area and I was really surprised because either there aren't that many of that type of doctor within that zip code so that you know two doctors could balance each other out or their you know their statistics aren't very accurate [speaker001:] right and and they're probably doing it to their benefit anyway so [speaker002:] yeah I would assume that you know whatever doctors are willing to do the paperwork and send it in [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but it's it's difficult What about other other benefits are there others that you're dissatisfied with [speaker001:] well I work for Sears and and um that's about the the only real benefit you have is health insurance [speaker002:] well you have vacation I mean [speaker001:] yeah yeah but everybody gets vacation I mean like uh TI and some other places you know they have social recreational facilities and they have a driving range and weight room and you know I think they even have a swimming pool and [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] I don't know if they have any tennis courts or anything like that [speaker002:] yeah I'm not familiar with that sort of thing but but you know to me vacation is is an issue and I mean different places have different amounts of vacation I would assume [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] and um you know the leniency with which they let you take leave without pay perhaps or um um I don't know I suppose um sick days some places count the number of hours and some places just sort of believe you [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um ours is based on number of days and you know people try to build them up in case they really do get seriously ill [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] right but um otherwise I'm not not aware of any problems with the benefits around here so maybe that covers the topic then [speaker001:] yeah well I don't know the working the working conditions you know if you could include that in benefits some places aren't very safe to work [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and and some places don't compensate you for the hazards that you that you have to work under [speaker002:] uh-huh or maybe a benefit uh not really a benefit either but would be the allowing you to use the telephone for personal calls [speaker001:] right uh-huh [speaker002:] um um but you know I suppose some places are are more stringent about that than others [speaker001:] yeah I think so [speaker002:] and and maybe arriving late or something like that you know how how they enforce the rules [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but other than that I don't have much feeling for for the benefits since like I said um I don't have a big problem with with them I [speaker001:] um Workmen Workmen's Comp is a big thing now in in Texas because um um how much it costs the employers and a a lot of them are going to their own insurance now [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and it reduces some of the length of the benefits and uh and I don't know besides that but I I noticed right off that was a year less than what the state was allowing [speaker002:] oh I I didn't know that somebody could avoid Workmen's Compensation [speaker001:] well well they still have to pay it but they buy their own instead of going through the state [speaker002:] oh I see [speaker001:] so apparently it costs less that way [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh I suppose that whenever companies can avoid um benefits it's to the to to the benefit of the company [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and at least you know financially in the short run but I would think they would get a much greater turnover and that people would be dissatisfied working for them [speaker001:] yeah that's what I what I think they they should be able they should be able to judge their benefits on how happy their employees are and how much profit they're making instead of trying to cut everything down and then have everybody be unhappy and and have a constant turnover of people [speaker002:] right I mean sure the payroll is lower that way but I would assume that the productivity is way down also [speaker001:] yeah the productivity and the training costs if they have to train the same employee a new employee every six months then I don't see how they can save money [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] you know and once they once they get somebody good they ought to hang onto them [speaker002:] that's right no I agree [speaker001:] yeah okay it was nice talking to you [speaker002:] well thank you for calling bye-bye [speaker001:] yeah bye-bye

[speaker002:] well so you you don't know too much about the Dallas Mavericks this this [speaker001:] no what where they at this year uh they win in their division [speaker002:] no they are uh only just a slightly a bit better than uh the other expansion teams they're they're they're a team in disarray right now [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh do you do you have a season pass you go watch them or [speaker002:] actually I used to and I gave it up this year because I thought well Roy Tarpley wasn't going to make it and sure enough about a week after I decided not to buy my ticket he went down with his uh his drug problems [speaker001:] uh-huh huh [speaker002:] and uh boy the team just is going into a tailspin since then [speaker001:] yeah that's too bad I'm I guess I'd be most familiar with uh the Jazz [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh and I've never watched them but uh interestingly enough I I I got to meet Carl Malone [speaker002:] you're kidding [speaker001:] huh-uh uh well it I live about forty five miles from Jackpot Nevada [speaker002:] how'd you manage that um-hum [speaker001:] and uh it's a town it's a town where they uh have uh uh casinos and so forth and I guess that's one of his pastimes I caught him down there and he was playing the slot machines and uh yeah you know would you know it somebody like him he hit a five thousand dollar jackpot and then he turned around hit hit another two thousand dollar jackpot and they came and took his picture and you know got the uh the IRS forms and stuff and he sat there and put all the money back into the machine lost every penny of it didn't bother him a bit [speaker002:] sound sounds like a real game huh [speaker001:] just yeah just doing it for enjoyment [speaker002:] well he must he must be a pretty big guy [speaker001:] it was incredible when he stood up he just towered he was a good foot above anybody in there [speaker002:] gee [speaker001:] and uh everybody everybody was uh kind of excited to see him and he's he oddly enough he was uh very friendly and cordial and stopped to sign a few things and [speaker002:] well it's it's it's nice to see those those you know those kind of guys when they get paid all those big bucks to uh you know to be halfway friendly [speaker001:] so it was it was neat yeah um-hum [speaker002:] but I know what you mean about talking about being big I mean that's when I was in high school I got I went to a Cleveland Cavaliers game I'm from Ohio and a friend of mine runs or used to run the clock down on the floor so he'd let me get down on the floor at half time and I stood by these guys they all walked out and and gee whiz they're just monsters [speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker002:] seven foot doesn't sound that tall but boy when you stand next to one it it is real tall [speaker001:] yep yeah I hear you so [speaker002:] so if you you don't you don't get down to uh basketball games very often then [speaker001:] I don't no we've got a small of course this isn't professional basketball but uh the CSI Golden Eagles [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I don't know if you've heard of them they're they're number they're the number one junior college in the state in the nation excuse me [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] and uh so they're here and they're kind of fun to go watch but uh uh that's that's the the most closest I get to in fact I've only seen one professional basketball game uh [speaker002:] so you didn't watch the all star game uh yesterday [speaker001:] I kind of watched it on television parts of it I didn't I didn't see the whole thing [speaker002:] yeah I I got out the weather was so nice here that I got out and didn't didn't see any of it [speaker001:] uh-huh uh yeah well well what do you think about Magic Johnson should he play or should he [speaker002:] well that's uh you you talking about the Olympics now [speaker001:] yeah I guess the summer Olympics is uh what they [speaker002:] yeah the summer Olympics is his next thing well I really you know it's it's his choice to play but there's a lot of other people you know the other team's choice not not to play against him I think he's gonna find a lot of people just say well heck I'm not going to worry you know I'm not gonna mess with that [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh yeah well I don't I think they that they'd feel that way too interestingly enough they've kept a seat a seat open uh and he may even play in the in the tournament games for uh LA [speaker002:] are you serious [speaker001:] I'm serious I heard that the other day on a sports [speaker002:] how can how can they do that if he doesn't played the whole season [speaker001:] I I don't know I don't know I guess the roster's one man you know there's a hole there still [speaker002:] oh unless they yeah unless they're just carrying a one odd guy instead of carrying the ten or eleven that they carry just carry one less [speaker001:] yeah right that's what they've done [speaker002:] well I you know I didn't watch the game but a a friend of mine was telling me that he you know he played a lot but he he played then he'd sit down then he'd play and he'd sit down and it wasn't like he was out there for twenty or thirty minutes at a at a go [speaker001:] and there's yeah no he wasn't and the the the part I saw is he he made the last shot of the game off balance three pointer and [speaker002:] I guess so yeah once once uh he starts losing that weight and can't keep it on you know he'll have to slow down and not not do that kind of stuff that that's got to be awful tough awful tough on his body [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah uh-huh well when's your Mavericks gonna do something [speaker002:] oh gee whiz the the they are [speaker001:] they need more people they need a coach what do they need [speaker002:] they need players and and they need a front office that that can judge players we've traded away so many good players in the past five years and got nothing for them [speaker001:] players [speaker002:] and drafted so many bad players and you know they haven't turned out [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] it's uh it's very frustrating we had we had one year where we had two first round picks and we picked uh a guy by the name of Bill Wittington uh who's a seven foot center a white guy and Uvay Blob another seven foot white center and they are both okay but I think both of them are playing in the Italy now [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and they you know they they traded away Mark Aguirre and got nothing for him I mean he had to go but they they [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] well what's uh what's the best experience you can come up with uh as far as camping [speaker002:] oh gee the first one that comes to my mind is uh camping outside the river at the uh at New Braunfels there [speaker001:] oh man that sounds like a blast [speaker002:] yeah we've gone down there many a year [speaker001:] is that right [speaker002:] camping riding the river rapids [speaker001:] yeah that that's where you just float down the river right [speaker002:] yeah well they have some you know half way decent rapids there [speaker001:] on tubes an I see [speaker002:] it's not Deliverance but it's pretty good [speaker001:] well that sounds pretty neat I guess I guess for me um um probably the last time I went camping was uh back in high school with Boy Scouts we always took an annual trip up to uh Colorado and went fly fishing [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] and uh we had we had a blast up there [speaker002:] yeah I never tried that [speaker001:] it it was nice going up there and see that scenery [speaker002:] well I uh we've done quite a bit of camping we uh used to uh throw everything in we had some old Volkswagen buses in our years early days when we had kids and they uh we'd uh you know go uh drive up into the hill country around uh oh New Braunfels and [speaker001:] I see [speaker002:] San Marcus around in through there [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] Austin up around Austin area [speaker001:] I see [speaker002:] just camp out [speaker001:] did they have some pretty good campsites up there [speaker002:] yeah uh usually we'd go uh like the state parks a lot of the state parks up in through there [speaker001:] I see [speaker002:] there's quite a few of them up there uh We started off pretty rough you know pretty much roughing it and we had like I say the Volkswagen bus we'd pull up and just I had fixed up the thing where you could just open up the doors I'd hooked on a little extension and made a tarp for the side and and and uh then we were set up in about five minutes ten minutes [speaker001:] that was a regular party machine huh [speaker002:] out by the side of the river yeah then we uh later on we started using a tent when we'd go to uh you know tent camping [speaker001:] I see that sounds pretty neat [speaker002:] we enjoyed it uh we had three kids and uh they've done a lot of camping with us and [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] they just seemed to like it [speaker001:] yeah I remember uh going with my parents uh we weren't very good campers it seemed like we were never prepared and uh we I grew up right around Amarillo up in the very northern part of Texas [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh we had a couple of lakes out there that we'd go and and go fishing and then camp out and uh seemed like it always rain or something you know something had to go wrong and uh we were never prepared for it [speaker002:] ha [speaker001:] so uh it wasn't it wasn't until Boy Scouts that I really started enjoying uh going out and camping [speaker002:] pretty uh pretty rough up around Amarillo isn't it [speaker001:] it sure is uh in fact we went up there for Easter and and we we had uh a beautiful day we had a day where it snowed and then uh it rained the next day and you know you just never can tell what the weather's going to do [speaker002:] that's my uh one of my wife's favorite stories to tell about Easter camping trips it the coldest Easter ever we left here uh we left here it was shorts weather in uh on Easter and [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] we went up and were going to spend on the Blanco River and we got there and a front come through and it was it was freezing [speaker001:] oh Lord [speaker002:] we didn't of course weren't prepared for it so [speaker001:] right oh and there's nothing worse when you're out camping if you get wet you know it [speaker002:] we sat there my brother-in-law cooked chicken bless and he was don't know how in heck he managed to do it but he did he stood out there and cooked that and we had something hot to eat [speaker001:] that's hilarious [speaker002:] we got up the next morning and she said I don't know about you but she said I'm going into town and we're going to buy some long johns [speaker001:] I'm surprised you didn't just pack up and go home I tell [speaker002:] so I was ready I was ready to go back to Houston [speaker001:] that's right that's right oh Lord I guess everybody's got those experiences when uh when things just didn't didn't go right for them [speaker002:] yeah that's uh sometimes turns into fun I think another similar one was when we'd go uh up to Bastrop Strate State Park there in uh kind of got caught by the cold weather and we uh gathered what firewood we could and built us a campfire you know and sat around there [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] into the wee hours and uh ran out of firewood so we uh each took turns going out and gathering up big bundles of pine needles and throwing them on the fire and they didn't last very long but they burned hot [speaker001:] oh Lord oh Lord [speaker002:] I remember that that was a lot of fun [speaker001:] that is funny but [speaker002:] we uh most recently we still go camping every well not as much anymore we our kids are pretty near grown and uh [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] I uh we had uh we've used a tent you know pop up trailer [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] we've done some camping in that we still go down to the river at least try to get down there once a year [speaker001:] I see [speaker002:] Braunfels [speaker001:] do they have uh actual camp sites there where you can go and [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] I see [speaker002:] they're some they're some they're some what you'd call primitive I mean there are no uh real facilities and then others that have uh [speaker001:] facilities or yeah [speaker002:] there's a few that have hot and cold uh you know electricity and and hot water and so forth there's a few of those and you have to make your reservations pretty well in advance [speaker001:] oh you do have to make reservations there [speaker002:] yeah because it's you know it is so nice and there limited space so [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] we usually if we're going we usually try and make them by March or so anyway [speaker001:] oh I see huh I didn't realize that [speaker002:] so it's uh yeah it's uh pretty nice [speaker001:] since it's so popular it's best to to have the reservations huh [speaker002:] well if you want to get a good camp site yeah you can go down and get a camp site pretty near any weekend they get prett y crowded on the uh you know the main July Fourth of July and [speaker001:] right right Memorial Day and whatever [speaker002:] yeah and Labor Day [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that water can get pretty cold though if you go too early [speaker001:] oh is that right [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] when's the best time to go down there for the water [speaker002:] we try not to go before uh July because uh it takes uh [speaker001:] it takes that long to get it heat up [speaker002:] gets warmed up yeah it comes out of the Canyon Lake up there and it's uh comes out of that deep lake and it's pretty cold water you know [speaker001:] I see huh because my wife and I had thought about going down there uh you know just for a weekend [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] because we have some friends from uh that went to school in San Marcus at South Texas [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh they're always talking about how they rode the uh those inner tubes down the river and that sounded like a fun that'd be a fun weekend [speaker002:] well in addition to to the river what we call it's the Guadalupe River it's uh has campsites all along the river uh but then there's also Camp Warnicke where you can get cabins you know it's right on the River [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] downtown New Braunfels [speaker001:] I see [speaker002:] and then they have the uh what they call the shoot which is uh it's a bypass around the dam where they have uh the comes right through the downtown part of New Braunfels [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] that's a lot of fun [speaker001:] yeah so you can actually rent cabins there [speaker002:] yeah um-hum at uh Camp Warnicke [speaker001:] and that's in that's in New Braunfels property [speaker002:] right in yeah right in uh almost right in downtown [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] and uh that's a lot of fun then they have a uh there's a commercial water park they're called the Schlitterbahn which is a barrel of fun [speaker001:] I see [speaker002:] especially if you've got kids [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] they have tube ride tube shoots and just and so many rides you can't almost can't do them all in a day you know [speaker001:] God that sounds like a blast [speaker002:] yeah it's uh it's a uh all day event [speaker001:] well that sounds like that might be a fun fun place to visit then [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] we'll have to give that a shot well I tell you what I guess uh I need to head out but I I appreciate the the conversation [speaker002:] yeah well I'm uh [speaker001:] you have a good you have a good week [speaker002:] hit one of my topics huh [speaker001:] oh good deal good deal well you have a good one [speaker002:] you too [speaker001:] all right bye-bye [speaker002:] bye

[speaker001:] great [speaker002:] um are you what what type of music do you like [speaker001:] uh I like uh probably cutting edge rock would be the best way to describe it [speaker002:] oh well then I'm sure we're going to have a lot in common I'm just joking what exactly is cutting edge rock [speaker001:] good deal cutting edge rock oh I don't know you got your top forty rock which I just can't stand top forty music the stuff you'd see on MTV and VH One and what have you and then there's new music come from we've got a radio station down here that uh [speaker002:] oh really um-hum [speaker001:] started broadcasting about a year ago and they've uh they play music that you just wouldn't hear on any other radio station more like a college it's more like a college station would play [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] which we don't have down here but uh it's just music by different groups it's you know things you wouldn't you wouldn't uh [speaker002:] I see um-hum [speaker001:] you wouldn't would never be exposed to [speaker002:] is it music that um like you can understand the words to [speaker001:] yeah most of it [speaker002:] oh okay well the the thing that I hate really is music that um it just seems like instruments playing all at once to five different scores of music do you know what I mean like didn't seem like it was meant what [speaker001:] yeah kind of noise it's noise [speaker002:] yeah it's noise it just doesn't seem like it was supposed to be played at the same time together or that someone isn't tuned or whatever but um I have to admit I do love top forty and um although I don't watch MTV I do love that type of music but I feel like it's the best music that you can sing along to and dance and [speaker001:] well yeah yeah [speaker002:] and um I'm an aerobics freak so I just uh I love that type of music to do aerobics to and exercise and that sort of thing do you go out to listen to music a lot [speaker001:] do I go out to listen to music well I go to school and work so I don't get too too many opportunities to uh go out and see a a live band although occasionally [speaker002:] um-hum don't get much time um-hum [speaker001:] I'll go downtown they have what they call Deep Ellum down here where a lot of local bands play and I've gone down there a few times [speaker002:] um-hum do you play any sort of instrument oh [speaker001:] no I'm musically destitute have no talents [speaker002:] oh don't be silly I used to play the piano and I used to play the guitar but then when I moved out you don't get to take the piano with you and uh there's no guitar around so I decided just to turn on the radio and that'll be my musical entertainment from now on [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but we don't get to go I love concerts if I could I would save my money and just go to concerts but obviously not only is they don't come around Rochester too often but um standing in line for hours on end doesn't really appeal to me either [speaker001:] yeah yeah I used to go I when I first moved to Dallas several years ago I've gone to a few concerts but it just it just gets to be more of a hassle than it's worth yeah you get a lot of thirteen and fourteen year olds and it's just a crowd of little kids [speaker002:] yeah exactly I know and then by the time you leave you end up like sitting in your car for an hour just to get out of the parking lot [speaker001:] yeah we usually go down and there's a tower that they have downtown you go down have a couple of drinks and wait for traffic to go away [speaker002:] do you have a good um stadium there or or [speaker001:] it's it's an indoor arena [speaker002:] oh right what's it called [speaker001:] Reunion [speaker002:] oh Reunion no that's not what I'm thinking of wasn't [speaker001:] there's one there's the Bronco Bowl that's out in Fort Worth though [speaker002:] I don't know what I'm thinking of [speaker001:] Arlington Stadium [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] there's several big things down in down here most of the most of the concerts are out at uh Reunion Arena [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and it's it's okay the the acoustics could be better but like I say I haven't been down there to a concert since [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] jeez I don't remember who I went to see last [speaker002:] well now you have to like the Beatles and Billy Joel you know uh [speaker001:] I like the Beatles some Billy Joel you know back in high school I guess I was a big Billy Joel fan but [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I've been [speaker002:] sort of grown out of that [speaker001:] well you know I listen to it but I won't go buy it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I've I've like I've been exposed to so many new and different bands lately just through this new radio station that [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I realize there's just a lot of a lot of things I've I never would have heard or even thought of looking at or listening to [speaker002:] like who are some of those bands what are they called [speaker001:] and oh I'm trying to think of a good example one that won't get me into too much trouble [speaker002:] who won't get you in too much trouble [speaker001:] um yeah be a bad example but like for example the Violent Violent Femmes they've been around for a while and they've just started playing some new music of theirs and it made me go out and buy some and listen to it I won't say I like the whole album really but uh [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum well you know I was just reading the newspaper and um there's this big thing on Madonna's new movie Truth of Dare have you heard about that [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I was reading an article about that yesterday [speaker002:] and um well I haven't seen the movie but obviously it looks extremely risque and um they were just mentioning some figures that she's made like in the past year she made thirty nine million dollars and over the past couple of years it's totaled almost two hundred million dollars and I mean as much as I like top forty I don't like Madonna I don't like her and I don't like her music and um I just don't like anything about her actually [speaker001:] the only thing I like about Madonna is I think if if I was given a ticket to see her perform I think she'd be entertaining to see perform [speaker002:] um-hum probably yeah [speaker001:] but I don't I don't really care for her music there's one or two songs that I like you know for a while until they overplayed them to death but uh I've never been a big Madonna fan [speaker002:] um-hum right exactly um-hum [speaker001:] but I do think if someone gave me a ticket it'd be a really entertaining show [speaker002:] yeah that's true [speaker001:] I wouldn't go stand in line or sleep overnight at the [speaker002:] but I know oh God no but to think that she's able to make that much money [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] just think of I mean that is what our kids are growing up with right now you know that they that they were talking about how Madonna is becoming a role model for kids [speaker001:] that's crazy [speaker002:] and uh boy it's really scary I don't know but I guess I I still go back to the old faithfuls like James Taylor and if I could if I had my choice to sit and listen to um oh I don't know some new group of today or just uh put on a tape of I don't know Carly Simon or whatever that's probably what I would stick to although I do have uh an unending love for fifties music which you probably detest [speaker001:] some no there's some my parents you know I used to listen to the stuff they listen to you know the Guess Who and what have you I've got some of that uh I don't I don't [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] I won't say I make tapes to listen to in my car but occasionally I put on LCD and crank it up because I you know stuff I grew up with [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum yeah [speaker001:] listening to so [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I'm I've got pretty broad musical tastes I don't really care for gospel and I'm not a big country fan but [speaker002:] me either [speaker001:] other than that I'll listen to just about anything [speaker002:] yeah do you have uh any sort of collection are you like uh you know do you go out and buy a bunch of CD's or tapes or [speaker001:] yeah I've got some I've got I don't know about a hundred hundred and fifteen CD's I suppose [speaker002:] do you really [speaker001:] I just I've got a bunch of the albums but I never play them because CD's have taken over [speaker002:] yeah exactly they really have we were talking about um how the only way to really destroy a CD is to drill a hole through it that you can microwave them and uh I don't know do whatever really it amazes yeah amazing [speaker001:] yeah you can scratch them up pretty good they'll still play [speaker002:] but well it was nice talking to you [speaker001:] yes so go out and play in that sun [speaker002:] yeah right and I'll go turn on my James Taylor tape or something all righty take care bye-bye [speaker001:] all right okay bye

[speaker001:] okay do you want to start [speaker002:] okay um I haven't I don't know that much about the possible what the possible choices could be about reorganizing the trial by jury but um I think it works better than many other systems like having a judge decide [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I can't think of many alternatives that could be more fair than having twelve people decide although it's difficult because they all have to be new unanimous [speaker001:] now that do you do you agree that they should all be unanimous or even even in uh like they said you know lesser you know trials you know lesser convictions do you think that they should be all unanimous still [speaker002:] I don't I don't know I don't know if I feel I don't feel real strongly about that if the um the thing is though I I didn't think that even if it was a lower conviction I didn't think that you could um I didn't think that you really had to have a a jury [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] unless I guess if you request one you can but I think yeah making it unanimous sometimes might um let the only thing it might let more people get off I don't think it would convict any more people [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and we have so many people already you know the jails are already overloaded [speaker001:] well the thing is they stay until they all are unanimous I mean if one is determined that it's you know that he feels that he's you know going against the other eleven they all stay until everyone agrees so I don't know if it would leave anyone getting off more unless someone just gets tired of fighting you know just gives in [speaker002:] yeah well if it's no but they they what if they never agree doesn't it just um do they have to go back and do a whole new trial or [speaker001:] and they have to stay in until they all agree yeah I don't know I'm not sure if they go I mean to twelve new people [speaker002:] agree [speaker001:] or what they do exactly but I do know for sure that all twelve have to agree before he can either you know either he or she can either go free or to jail either one [speaker002:] yeah yeah and that maybe on the lesser crimes that aren't too severe that's a little stringent [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] especially because there's twelve the thing about it is I think jury selection too a lot of times um the lawyers are able to pick and choose who they want on the jury and they can sway them that way too [speaker001:] that's just that's just it I don't understand you're supposed to you know go in if you have you know like if you've never heard of the people before or anything but I don't understand with racialism and the way religion is and everything else how you can get people that are total totally impartial to it [speaker002:] I know I don't think well I guess you really can't but the other thing is when they have the sensational trials how they get people who aren't swayed by the news either [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so um but then again you know they the one of the questions they asked is should it just be decided by a judge and that's kind of tricky too because a lot of positions the judges are in they they can't be fired you know they have to they stay till they retire and sometimes they're pretty partial in their judgements too [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I agree I don't think it should be left up to the judge alone not only you know that they have to stay in there but hey how many times have you heard of judges being bought over [speaker002:] I know [speaker001:] you know so it it's I I I think I think in in the end the judge has the presiding you know um vote I think he can be you know I I don't know if it's the way it is in real life but I've seen it on TV where the juries go one way and the judge totally totally finds it obnoxious and he completely you know goes the other way now I'm not sure if the judge is allowed to do that in everyday life or what [speaker002:] yeah I think in some cases they are but they know they get to decide how severe the sentence is if it's you know so that's another thing where they have the power but [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] maybe juries could be less than twelve people or would that be more fair or less fair maybe there should be more than twelve people I don't [speaker001:] oh oh my God if there were more than twelve can you imagine how long they'd be sitting [speaker002:] I know I know I don't know [speaker001:] I I think it's just I don't I mean I think it's as fair as it can possibly get but I just think it's really hard you know I mean some cases go on for years you know [speaker002:] that's true and I've never been on jury duty but they have to keep going and going and going [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and lose their not lose their jobs but not go to work [speaker001:] yeah I I don't know how it could be more fair course I don't know maybe maybe they should be asking someone that's been on on trial before [speaker002:] it could be really I've never seen one in real life either so I don't have you know I don't know that much about it but I think it seems that we have a a pretty fair system compared to other countries I don't know how we could make it more fair I really don't [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the unanimous vote is questionable though and and how how many cases get juries might want to be reviewed too [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] because uh I don't know if you should have really really have a jury for small a small infraction [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but I'm not sure who gets them I don't know anything [speaker001:] I know I don't know that much about it either I just I don't know I I guess maybe if they'd go and they'd ask someone in jail you know how they can make it more fair for them or not but then again maybe they should be there so that is fair [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I don't I I don't think anyone's going to come up with a better way [speaker002:] no whoever came up with this was pretty smart because it was pretty uh unique I think when they started it [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] so how long do we need to talk do you know [speaker001:] oh I think we can hang up anytime [speaker002:] okay um in um what do I do now do you know anything or just wait for someone else [speaker001:] no I don't know what else to say so [speaker002:] okay okay well it was nice talking with you [speaker001:] it was nice talking to you too bye [speaker002:] thanks bye-bye

[speaker001:] I was gonna say my uh college is Northern State University in Aberdeen South Dakota and our head football coach Dennis Miller used to be an assistant coach at BYU [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] so I thought that was kind of an interesting interesting coincidence [speaker002:] huh so you went to what college [speaker001:] uh Northern State University in Aberdeen South Dakota [speaker002:] and what did you graduate in [speaker001:] I just in what major or what year [speaker002:] yeah major [speaker001:] uh international business [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] and you [speaker002:] I'm going to BYU and I'm going into nursing [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] well that sounds interesting ah how long of a program is that [speaker002:] forever seems like anyways it's about five years but it's probably gonna take me longer because I didn't decide to major in that until uh about a year and a half after I was already in school so [speaker001:] you know I read a study once and it said that uh like thirty four percent of uh college students actually graduate in four years from a four year program [speaker002:] oh really that sounds [speaker001:] it took me it took me five years you know you just you get started and and you change your mind or you wanna pick up a second major if you're management you you you decide I'll I'll take that marketing it's just what three more classes [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] you know and it it just just doesn't happen that you get out in four years [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but [speaker002:] so what is your advice to [speaker001:] my advice is is uh [speaker002:] picking a college [speaker001:] look for at the student to faculty ratio you know if you're gonna go to a college where student faculty ratio is three and four hundred to one I don't think you're gonna have as meaningful of of a college experience as if you're down to the thirty to forty to one [speaker002:] um-hum is that what was yours more like [speaker001:] yeah ours was about twenty six to one [speaker002:] really oh that's great [speaker001:] yeah which is you know it it's interesting but it it's what I thought was nice is you could always there was always time to talk to professor you know and and they knew you [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you weren't just in their class you know and so you could you could go talk to them in their office hours at any time and or if you ran into them in the student union or whatever you know you could sit down and talk to them about a problem they were always willing to help you out so but our house I I put that against uh my high school where we had uh a biology class of three hundred and fifty students and [speaker002:] wow in high school [speaker001:] yeah it was a biology lecture class [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and you know it it [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] it just wasn't the same you're sitting there and you're taking notes and you know you got a computerized test scores with multiple choice because there's no way they could correct a three hundred fifty point short answer test or you know a three hundred and three hundred and fifty person short answer test [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it just wasn't the same you you'd run you'd pass the teacher in high school you know and even in high school you could say hi to your teachers and unless you're in that biology class and they just you know they'd look at you like do I know you or should I know you [speaker002:] um-hum yeah there's it's the classes here are pretty big so it's hard to get individual help it's kind of you're on your own [speaker001:] do you get uh a lot of tutoring or [speaker002:] no very little I mean well like my for example I have I'm in a chemistry class right now and there's tons of students in it and there's one TA for the whole class [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and he only has certain office hours and so there's only certain times you can talk to him and [speaker001:] and you could get there and his office hours could I mean he could have like a nine to eleven in the morning office hours and have forty two people waiting to talk to him and you still wouldn't get to talk to him anyway [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] well what would be your advice to a parent of a child thinking of attending college [speaker002:] oh man I think your advice is good um let's see my advice would be to pick a major before you get into college [speaker001:] that's excellent advice [speaker002:] because I I didn't and I took ton of classes that I didn't need to and um I don't know I just feel like I'm it's it's gonna take me a lot longer than and not that's always bad but it's I don't know it's frustrating I guess [speaker001:] well it it it does get it you know you get to the point where it's I'm never gonna get done [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you know I I mean I was taking summer classes and finally I said let me get out of here [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] but uh no that's good advice even if you don't have your major decided on have an idea of what you think you might want you know so you don't want management but you think you want business [speaker002:] um-hum

[speaker001:] gonna go first [speaker002:] no go ahead you called [speaker001:] all right um right now I'm a college right now I'm a college student as a matter of fact so I'm pretty fresh with it I just think a lot of it depends on a variety of thing it depends on for me it was a combination of finance [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um being in a place where I would enjoy the atmosphere and where I'd feel comfortable as well as just the general type of education that the school gives [speaker002:] yeah well I I don't know I think it depends a lot on um well all those things decided that's true but I had got my daughter into college last year and it was really a major decision [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but there were just so many things to consider and I don't really think we even considered all of the things we should have [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh so she's out in California [speaker001:] oh is she [speaker002:] yeah but what we didn't consider was coming back and forth and things like that you know yeah really so that's kind of [speaker001:] yeah exactly yeah [speaker002:] that was kind of hard so I don't know I think it's always confusing it's hard to make a choice [speaker001:] oh absolutely I think you know like you said a lot of it there a lot things for example I go to school out in Utah and my family lives here in Texas and so it's kind of like you said uh I never realized what an expense it would be trying to come home and [speaker002:] uh-huh it really is and you don't get to come home as much as you think you will [speaker001:] no I maybe have been home oh twice in the last two years for Christmas [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah so it's really hard to do that [speaker001:] yeah it is and I think to there's there's a lot of times like you said that's one of the major considerations is you know how much do you want to be with your family or how much do you wanna and that's something that I didn't think about until I was already out there [speaker002:] and I don't think you even know that answer until you go either [speaker001:] yeah exactly [speaker002:] you know everybody's anxious to get going and get away and go do their thing but then they really want to come home and they can't always [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yep that's for sure [speaker002:] so that's kind of hard too but [speaker001:] you learn to appreciate what you had [speaker002:] yeah that's true isn't it yeah it is I know [speaker001:] it is so what other points did you guys look at when you were trying to find her school [speaker002:] well the size of the school because we live in Plano so the schools are really big here very crowded so she didn't want a school that was really too big [speaker001:] uh-huh right uh-huh [speaker002:] and we looked at that and I don't know that that's really relevant because you're gonna end up with your little group anyway [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I'm not sure that it makes too much of a difference although we did find that like down in Texas um at UT you know down in Austin [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] that those classes are so full like you can have two hundred kids in a class [speaker001:] yeah and see I think that makes a huge difference where I [speaker002:] so that would be horrible you know [speaker001:] it is where I'm going my freshman year I didn't have a single class with less than nine hundred students [speaker002:] that's horrible oh my gosh [speaker001:] yeah and it was it was frustrating you'd see a TA once a week and even the TAs rarely knew who you were so [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it became a thing like you said where you're where you're competing either to you know to get someone's attention to get help or you just kind of if you're not self motivated where I'm going it's really hard to [speaker002:] where're you going [speaker001:] um to Brigham Young University [speaker002:] and it's that crowded is it really [speaker001:] um in the freshman classes that are you have there's about twenty four thousand students [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and so it's kind of it's a lot of fun when you get in the upper level upper level classes it's a lot easier but [speaker002:] yeah yeah wow gosh [speaker001:] and that's something that I hadn't considered because I was I was raised in Plano as well and I went to Plano East and I never you know there's lots of students but there wasn't that many you know thirty or thirty five in a class I didn't mind [speaker002:] yeah where are you in college now [speaker001:] I'm a junior [speaker002:] junior yeah [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] my daughter went to Plano East too she twirled [speaker001:] oh did she oh cool [speaker002:] yeah but she was the only twirler they've ever had so but that's what she's doing out in California that's why she's out there [speaker001:] great [speaker002:] because we had to consider where a good spot was too and [speaker001:] yeah and that should you know I think a lot of it depends on like you said I think for me what I wanted to get out of the college experience had a lot to do with it it wasn't it was a combination of academics as well as other things so [speaker002:] yeah yeah well but a lot of times kids aren't sure what they want to be like she started out with sports psychology so we looked all over that was a hard thing to find [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] and then she changed her mind anyway and I think most most people do that I think these days you know yeah see and they say that that's average [speaker001:] yeah uh I have three or four times yeah [speaker002:] because that's very common so maybe that's not such a great reason to look at a school I don't know [speaker001:] yes I think for me personally when I was choosing I was looking more the overall experience instead of just [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know but the specific field that I was looking into at that time so [speaker002:] yeah well she was too when you live in Plano you know you sort of have everything you really spoiled everybody here at school we all are all our kids are you know to be honest and we went out to USC because they wanted her to twirl for them [speaker001:] yep uh-huh [speaker002:] and she was terrified she was just terrified of living in LA [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] she was too scared to go there so I guess you have to look at that too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I understood it at the time when we went to the campus and visited I thought oh gosh it would just

[speaker001:] Dave what kind of pets do you have [speaker002:] oh we have one rotten cat [speaker001:] one rotten cat [speaker002:] yeah it's my son's cat [speaker001:] I heard a laugh in the background [speaker002:] yeah that's the boys they they know I don't like it [speaker001:] oh you don't like cats [speaker002:] well I like cats this cat is a uh more like a dog [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] yeah he's uh a a one owner he likes one boy in the family and that's about it [speaker001:] that said what does how does he treat the other people [speaker002:] just uh stays away or runs [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] usually but he follows he'll follow my oldest son around you know when he's in the house he'll come up and he'll jump on his lap but if anybody reaches over to pet him or whatever he'll just kind of look at them like what are you doing [speaker001:] did he raise him or something [speaker002:] and he he's yeah we bought the cat for him and so he's he's been the one that you know spent the most time with him but I I've never owned a cat like that I've had cats growing up all the time and you know they're usually either that way with everybody or friendly to everybody [speaker001:] uh-huh huh that's interesting [speaker002:] so it's a weird cat [speaker001:] huh we have a a mutt well we we named it Hooper because that's where we got it from uh some lady [speaker002:] a mutt uh-huh [speaker001:] she uh a lot of people uh uh drop off abandoned abandoned pets at her house [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and she used to work for a veterinarian veterinarian so she would spay uh neuter them [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] give them all their shots and we saw an ad saying it was free so we went down there and picked it up and it's been an excellent dog but this is my first dog I've I've had and we got it because well my wife stays here at home alone while I go to work so that's mostly why we got it to keep her company while I'm away at work [speaker002:] uh-huh so that is that kind of your child right now [speaker001:] um yeah right now it it is it's kind of good training I mean we've been trying for kids but right now we haven't had any but [speaker002:] you feel like oh uh-huh [speaker001:] it's pretty good training I think I mean it it keeps us on our toes [speaker002:] have have you had dogs before [speaker001:] uh my brother has um we didn't do a lot with them um I never felt it like it was mine or anything you couldn't do anything [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but I mean it's a bit more responsibility when it's yours and not your brother's [speaker002:] yeah well I just um we've you know when I was growing up I had we always had a dog [speaker001:] but [speaker002:] and we had mostly well not not mutts but mixes you know like one or one or two mix [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and those dogs always seem to be the best dogs [speaker001:] that's what we found ours is uh like a Cockapoo I think it's half Cocker Spaniel and half Poodle but it's a really good dog [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] I don't know they seem to be I mean listen better or something is your cat a purebred [speaker002:] um-hum no no it's just uh an accident from a friend from uh my son's friend down the street their their cat [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] was an outside cat and just end up with some kittens and [speaker001:] would you ever want a dog in the family [speaker002:] um we I would we um we had a dog that was a um mix between a an Alaskan Malamute and a Labrador [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and I should say a pup and he was just too big for our kids when we got him and we [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] when we moved into our house that was the first thing we wanted to get was uh you know was a pet and and it was a dog that we gotten he was just he was just too big um the kids couldn't handle him and I was still going to school [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and my wife was working and I was working and so we just didn't have time to really train him so he was kind of just there you know he's too big for the kids to handle so he was just tied up to a post [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] so we gave him to uh I don't know if you've there's a place out here on it's called Shorties Lane out here in Harrisville and they have um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I guess it's kind of an animal shelter but he just takes a few of the animals in and some he destroys and some he keeps [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so we took him up there and he ended up keeping him um because he's had him for six or seven years we we've saw him just a oh I guess about a year ago and uh I thought boy that sure looks like that pup we gave away and so we asked him about it one day and he said yeah he's been the best dog I've ever had in my life [speaker001:] um-hum wow [speaker002:] just goes everywhere with him I he would've been a great great dog [speaker001:] they just need a lot of time

[speaker001:] alright what do you think [speaker002:] well uh I think air pollution is a pretty big problem right now and it's I mean I think it's a real bad problem I don't think that a lot is really being done about it at this point and there's just things like uh for a I think that cars especially here in the United States are just a major source of the pollution when you consider that most people have at least one automobile and people drive around all the time and I think you know if you just totaled up I don't know any of the exact figures but all the millions of cars that are driving around spewing out carbon monoxide all the time I think you're going to end up with a pretty big uh number [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] um and if you look at other countries like in the third world and stuff where people ride bikes and all that I'm sure that their uh air quality is much better than ours just as a result of their lack of having cars like if you look at Los Angeles I mean they've they said that the major reason that it's so smoggy there is because they all sit and drive down the freeway everyday [speaker001:] hum okay well um I I mean also along the same lines I know that there's somebody I I read one time about um somebody's developed uh a test to look at the emissions from um your car [speaker002:] uh-huh right [speaker001:] you know you know I I just don't understand I mean everybody's so concerned right now about recycling and everything I think that's pulled away from the focus of air pollution [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and we're making all these changes with cars and everything and and and battling to have US built cars versus other countries and we're not looking at um the air quality that we're producing from our cars [speaker002:] uh-huh right and there was just I just saw today that uh President Bush they were had new a new regulation out that was going to put a canister to collect some of the exhaust fumes on most new cars and he uh is not going to let that regulation pass through because he says that well it's going to cost too much money and take too many jobs away from the people up in Michigan and I just think that's ridiculous that I mean if they've developed the technology to remove some of the harmful pollutants that come out of people's exhaust pipe and not implementing it is just seems kind of ludicrous to me [speaker001:] yeah I I I hadn't heard anything about that [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] well you know until these older model cars I mean granted I have an older model car but I mean some of the some of the really older ones that you know the mufflers falling off you know and they're not quiet up to specs but they're still being driven around [speaker002:] right uh-huh right [speaker001:] you know and you can I mean I'd go behind somebody the other day and you mean you saw this this huge amount of smoke pouring out the back of their car and you had to change lanes to get away from them [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you know and I mean if you can see it and smell it that badly on that vehicle think about how many others are pouring out that you can't see and smell [speaker002:] right exactly uh the another thing I don't know here in the Midwest in Indiana at least we produce most of our energy burning coal and if you just look at some of these there's a coal burning electricity plant here in town and you can just sit there and watch the the smoke stacks and the amount of pollution that just pours out of there [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] I use to live right next to this plant and every single day you would go out and your car would just have you know it's not like three inches of dust or anything but you can see the dust that had come out of this smoke stack and just fallen right down on your car and you know they say that the the coal we burn here in Indiana is responsible for a large part of the acid rain that they have up in New York state and in Canada and all that and it's just you know it's ridiculous when we could be spending the money to develop the technology to you know clean up some these uh sources of pollution like the smoke stacks but then the big businesses say well we can't do it because it's going to cost us too much money and it's like well we kind of got to think a little bit more forward instead of you know we're not going to make as much money this year because we're trying to clean things up I just it kind of [speaker001:] that's right that's [speaker002:] bothers me [speaker001:] well I know in Dallas um I'm I I live pretty close to downtown to Dallas and you know and there are days you just you open the door and just go huh I'm not leaving here today you know [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] and and I mean there's uh there's a place that used to be called Concrete City and they have all these things where they used to burn um and and what they would burn off would be lead [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and now you know I mean here they've been spewing this stuff out for forty years or more and they're just now beginning to figure out that you know that what they've done is is wrong [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you know and now we're trying to clean that up but you know we've seen the visible effects in the soil but it makes me wonder what kind of effects that it's had on the atmosphere that we don't know yet [speaker002:] um-hum right [speaker001:] you know and so many of these things takes so many years to develop that we've never you know it'll be past my life time before I see the effects of some of the things that we're doing now [speaker002:] right so yeah all and all I think that we really I mean almost if you look at almost any industry it's it's producing so much pollution I mean they're spewing out just tons of this atmospheric garbage every single year [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and something really ought to be done because it it's basically we don't see the problem right now and like you said even the pollution that we're putting out now is not really going to affect anybody for twenty thirty years so I don't think it's got I mean the the past [speaker001:] right

[speaker002:] well uh I myself am not in favor of drug testing in the work place except in in specific uh very specific in this uh very specific examples such as uh transportation workers as in uh air traffic controllers bus drivers and that kind of thing [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um I don't really think that it's uh too many I think it's a severe invasion of somebody's privacy to say well we're going to look at your urine and then decide whether you're uh you know worthy of working for us I really don't see that that's a very very valid uh thing for a company to say and I personally I don't think I would work for somebody if they were going to reject me on the basis of what's inside my body [speaker001:] yeah uh I guess I basically agree that uh do you think it's okay for a company to reject somebody just knowing that they have take drugs I mean suppose they found out some other way [speaker002:] well I think I think what you I think the problem here is is that a a drug test does not necessarily imply that someone is taking drugs or not taking drugs [speaker001:] yeah so [speaker002:] there's too many cases where it can you know there can be false positive results and that that sort of thing I don't think there's any definitive you know okay this person is taking drugs so we don't want him here [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh like I said some industries though I think it'd be very necessary I wouldn't want any air traffic controllers high or anything like that when I'm flying in an airplane [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but uh I mean I just I find it to be pretty offensive that that it's such a a big deal I mean if your employer's not going to trust you or you know it I just I think it's a whole trust issue I just can't see it [speaker001:] have you ever been in a situation where you you were drug tested or [speaker002:] uh yeah I have been [speaker001:] yeah I have once too so [speaker002:] I I mean I was very offended by by the whole process I mean it's uh very humiliating and I mean I'm not speaking in favor of drugs or against drugs but I uh I am totally against that sort of a uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I mean it's it's a pretty personal thing when somebody says I want to look at your urine before I'm going to talk to you [speaker001:] yeah I had it during a job interview and I just thought it was dumb of the company at a point where they were trying to convince me to to want to work for them [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] to do this and I'm just like well uh I'm not even going to think much about it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] if you're gonna treat me with this much respect even before [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you've gotten to know me [speaker002:] right that that's basically my opinion on it right there is that it's just you know I did I it was in the same sort of situation as it was a job interview and then you had a physical where you were drug tested and it's I just I mean I know people who have been drug tested and who have not you know been hired by a corporation which uh you know I really The other side of it is is besides its being an invasion of personal privacy as in my it's my bodily fluid and I don't really want you to look at it or or something pretty basic like that just to the fact that [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I don't know that it is a company's business to regulate what it's employees are doing when they're not at work I mean the during the eight hours during the day when they're supposed to be there I think they have every right to say this is these behaviors are acceptable and these are not but when it enters into what they're doing when they're not at work I find that to be fairly offensive also [speaker001:] yeah well like you say I mean if it's not a critical kind of job where someone could get hurt then really what people ought to be doing I mean the the employer ought to be judging you on how well you do your work rather than on these other factors [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] and I mean if you are doing drugs and it's causing a problem then they'll notice it for other reasons [speaker002:] that's exactly right [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and also I just think it it gets a lot I'm a big uh supporter of personal freedoms and personal privacies and I think that it just moves down along a line that that I really would find bad if if most people went down that line into regulating employees' lives outside of work when you know there's already talk of people well we're not going to hire you if you smoke well you know I I can see how they can say in the work place we you don't want them to smoke but when somebody leaves work I don't think that it's the employer's right to regulate their lifestyle at all [speaker001:] well do you think it's should be illegal for an employer to do this or [speaker002:] uh I really think it should be except as I've mentioned twice now in the specified industries or or jobs because there are certain things where it's just vital that a person is clear minded at all times [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and other than that I think I do not think it should be allowable I think it should be illegal for them to to want to do that [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] it should it's kind of the big brother syndrome I mean I just anything like that just kind of scares me [speaker001:] I tend to to view it even though I don't think I'd work for a company that did that I sort of want to defend an employer's rights as opposed to an individual's uh in addition to an individual's rights but an employer really I think has the right to hire someone on any basis they want to [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and if they say they don't want smokers I sort of feel like an employer should have the right to decide whether they want to allow that [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh and I don't really

[speaker001:] uh no I think that maybe the the automation people that are [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] we're discrete well are not discrete uh electronic devices [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] oh and did he is he the one that got you connected with us [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um hum okay it's a lot of fun [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you want to punch the button and go [speaker002:] sure you ready [speaker001:] yep [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] well are you going to buy a car soon [speaker002:] well it won't be too much longer because my husband and I are both going to retire retire and when we retire we're going to buy us a you know a new one and and get rid of the two that we have right now [speaker001:] and what are you going to buy [speaker002:] I do I don't know we're either gonna buy a pick up or we're gonna buy a van or we're gonna buy an economy car how do you like that [speaker001:] well have you been listening to Iaccoca's arguments that uh that Chrysler products are the only ones that that all have airbags [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] does that make a difference to you [speaker002:] yeah it sure does I really would like to have something like that and I'm hoping that by you know that's like right now my husband would like for me to buy another vehicle right now but I keep saying lets put it off lets put it off because I'm hoping they'll get so many better features [speaker001:] yeah like what [speaker002:] well just like that air bag I think that thing is fantastic cause I've seen some of the you know like the head on collision type things where they had it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and people walk away from it we had one here I guess it was about three weeks ago and the people walked away from the wreck with no scratches nothing you know a few bruises [speaker001:] that's nice did did you see the uh I don't know if it was 2020 last Thursday or Friday night on on seat belts [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] did that scare you a little bit with the lady being thrown out [speaker002:] uh-huh you got it I [speaker001:] and run over [speaker002:] I tell you what I would not I would not buy a car that had the seat belt where it was hooked under the door [speaker001:] that really scared I guess I that that a little more than scared me that irritated me uh that because it if if it it surely didn't come as a surprise that that if the door came open the lady would fall out I mean and [speaker002:] well you know what the average person would you ever have thought of that [speaker001:] um no probably well I'm not the problem is I'm I'm really into cars and so it's not a uh [speaker002:] I mean now it you probably would not [speaker001:] um for me it's it's a real it's a real consideration um uh and and uh the but no I probably wouldn't have even though I'm really quite into cars it's it's probably my main hobby [speaker002:] right because you always think I mean I don't know maybe you don't but just like me I always think well you know these things must be safe but that's just like I don't know if you've heard about it a few years ago they said you know before they had the like the shoulder strap thing where it was just like a seat belt that goes across your waist [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] all these people were and and it was on one of those kind of shows like 2020 these people were like paralyzed and because it threw them forward but they were hooked at the waist and so it like you know did something to their spinal cord [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] then they were like paraplegics [speaker001:] yeah you know Road and Track had a had some articles on and particularly with with backseat uh with some where kids were were sitting in the backseat with seat belts on and they were thrown forward into the front seat and there was enough stretching the combination of stretching the spine to uh paralyze I mean to serious injury even though they were they were still locked in the the forced to go so really if your sitting in the backseat [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you're better off not to have your seatbelt on if it's just a seatbelt we have a van that uh just has seat belts in the back doesn't have a shoulder harness [speaker002:] yeah well tell me about your van do you like it [speaker001:] I have an Arrow Star van we really do uh it's it's a mini van we've had it goodness in May will be five years and uh they replace the engine at sixty thousand under extended warranty and the transmission was replaced but they really are nifty um the mini van it's actually we had a station wagon before and it's a foot or two shorter than a we had a regular size station wagon [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it really um we like it it the interestingly enough one of the features we like are the electric locks [speaker002:] huh the reason that we're thinking about something like that we took a trip in my brother in law and sister in laws to Florida [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and like I said I mean we're not that old but my husband works for the state and after a certain amount of years you can retire and when he retires I'm retiring well as soon as I get my quarters in I'm retiring period that's it you know no more and so [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah well but the did you did you go to Florida in a van [speaker002:] uh-huh and we wanted to travel well that was really nice traveling but you know I like to know more I mean hear about more people that have things like that you know and see what they think of them the different kinds because I've only ridden in the one that's it [speaker001:] yeah yeah which what kind was it [speaker002:] uh shoot I can't even think of the name of it now [speaker001:] what what was remarkable this van even with the we have two kids and we went to Disney World [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh actually I grew up in Alabama and I went to see my mother and then went on down to Disney World and it got better than I think twenty two twenty three miles a gallon and this was with the air conditioner on and and you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] four people with with luggage and uh course this grant it that's you know it's been four years ago but it's remarkable that the that the bigger vans uh they're uh my boss just bought a a pick up truck and uh he only gets seventeen miles a gallon [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but it it has a big engine and it it pulls a boat and stuff but it's and it it's got the seats that and the other thing that is interesting is it has uh rear air conditioning [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and that that makes a lot of difference in those of us that live in warm climates [speaker002:] yeah well now this one that we went in it did baby what kind of van was that that we went to Florida in a what a Ford Ford what you remember he was trying to think of what the name of it was [speaker001:] well the big you know the big vans are all real nice [speaker002:] this was a big one I mean it was a big one it had the it had the front and the back and you know it has the uh backseat let down into a double I mean a queen size bed and then it had the two swivels in the middle and then [speaker001:] yeah oh those are yeah yeah [speaker002:] the two swivel chairs on the front [speaker001:] all right [speaker002:] and I mean it was fantastic and it got good gas mileage but [speaker001:] they uh [speaker002:] I don't know I don't really I don't I want something I can drive too you know and I was scared to drive that big van [speaker001:] well well the mini the you'd be surprised if if you drive a one of the the mini vans uh fact there all more or less alike the the uh Chevrolet and uh well of course Oldsmo bile has got one and Chryslers got one but they drive remarkably like cars [speaker002:] well do you does yours have that this one had it where you know you would see something coming in the rear view mirror I mean not the rear those little side mirror things and it would look like it was further back than it was [speaker001:] yeah yeah but the little thing etched in it say objects are are closer than they appear or something [speaker002:] yeah does yours do that too oh I was wondering if all vans did that [speaker001:] yeah well you you can you can uh install those mirrors we've got the big side mirrors which are really nice I don't know if you've well if you've driven a pick up truck you know these are these uh mirrors are must be six inches across not nearly a foot high [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and they really nice uh I'm on both sides actually they they fold so when you get in tight situations you can fold them back [speaker002:] yeah well see that's the reason that we couldn't make really make them at first we were going to get a pick up truck with a camper on the back of it but then that gas mileage was just atrocious I mean it's unreal it's [speaker001:] but there uh-huh um-hum uh [speaker002:] you just practically don't get any [speaker001:] well they have got some of the newer ones they you know with the aerodynamic features you can get pretty pretty decent gas mileage [speaker002:] yeah and then uh he talked about a van and I said well you know I don't know I don't know how the gas is on most of these and another thing was that's the reason I said you know there was such a big difference you know in a little economy car but I said maybe we might have to get us an economy car to pull along [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] when we went somewhere but really and truly the safety features but I wouldn't get one that if it had the seat belts on the door now I wouldn't get it period [speaker001:] yeah yeah interesting enough Ford announced that I think in ninety two they're going to put uh air bags in their in their vans [speaker002:] oh that would be good [speaker001:] so uh and I think I I believe safety I I I I really do believe in this stuff uh and I I think it's important I'm not the air bags are a good deal but um surprisingly uh they're uh you really need to do you need a combination of both the air bags and the uh [speaker002:] oh I think so too I don't think they should do away with the seat belts now I'm but I think you need the shoulder thing I think you need the thing around your waist but I think you need that bag to pop out too [speaker001:] and your seatbelt so yeah yeah [speaker002:] you know because I know so many people here that have been killed in head on collisions where maybe if they had they had that that air bag they may still be walking around [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] but uh I think it's fantastic I wish they required it in everything every new car that came out I wish they would require it in it [speaker001:] it would be interesting to see what that'd do to our insurance rates you know if if uh if the insurance companies says it says we're not going to pay you know a claim if if the car doesn't have air bags would be interesting wouldn't it uh that wouldn't be fair but uh [speaker002:] yeah well no because what they would do is that's what they're going to plan on you know they would have to do it the insurance company would have to do the same thing they're given like a ten year time limit [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] where okay these cars I guess they figure all the old cars will be off the roads or something by the in ten years [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and then you know if you didn't have a car that had one in it then your insurance would go up enormously [speaker001:] uh I've got to go my son's in a performance tonight I have to leave in a couple of minutes uh I think we've probably spent a reasonable amount of time [speaker002:] oh that's okay okay [speaker001:] it was good talking to you okay good night [speaker002:] well you you too all right bye bye

[speaker001:] well Jerry do you have a favorite team [speaker002:] oh yeah uh the of course the Dallas Cowboys yeah [speaker001:] Cowboys [speaker002:] yeah I live live and die with them [speaker001:] okay well they're rebuilding right now yet I think it's going to take them a couple more years before they can be a really good team [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah uh of course I guess really the reason I like the Cowboys is because SMU was my favorite team uh college pardon me college team and of course they started out with Don Meredith [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and uh so that that tie there between SMU and the Cowboys [speaker001:] I think the Cowboys have shown a lot of improvement this uh past year [speaker002:] yeah uh Jerry Johnson surprised me [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] I didn't think he was going to do very good because I thought he was a college football coach and not a professional coach [speaker001:] yeah okay yeah I think a lot of people had that impression that uh that he ought he should have stayed in the college ranks but uh looks like they're going to do all right [speaker002:] yeah yeah course he he came after a legend too Tom Landry so he had some uh tough row to hoe there [speaker001:] my yeah big shoes to follow well my favorite team is a is a sentimental favorite uh the Green Bay Packers I grew up in that area and have been following them [speaker002:] yeah yeah pardon my for coughing I've been coming down with a cold [speaker001:] been following the Packers ever since uh they won the first two Super Bowls [speaker002:] yeah they used to have some uh bang up fights and dig in the trenches with the Cowboys the Ice Bowl and [speaker001:] yeah they sure did I remember those [speaker002:] the other uh games that they would play for the Super Bowls [speaker001:] yeah I actually know some people that went to the Ice Bowl [speaker002:] yeah at uh they had they had some good teams though [speaker001:] they could have had a good year this year uh unfortunately the quarterback uh controversy they had where Don McCowskey got hurt and couldn't play most the season [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] they spent an awful lot of money on him too a million and a half dollars for a one year contract [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so I don't know if he's going to be in shape to [speaker002:] and course they were they were kind of like the Cowboys in that after Lombardi who could fill his shoes [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but uh [speaker001:] who did you root for in the Super Bowl [speaker002:] I I didn't really have a favorite in the Super Bowl I just wanted to see a good game [speaker001:] yeah both New York teams [speaker002:] I I was tired of blow outs [speaker001:] uh-huh well that turned out to be a good game [speaker002:] and it it was it was good to see a good good uh championship game [speaker001:] I think Buffalo is an up an coming team they're going to they're showing some real promise for the next uh few years [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] the Giants are always uh always there perennially a good team [speaker002:] yeah well their coach has a lot to do with that I think [speaker001:] I think they had a lot of luck there too with Montana getting hurt in San Francisco [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] I think if if he was uh healthy San Francisco would have stomped those guys it wouldn't have been much of a contest [speaker002:] yeah yeah but uh there's a lot of parity now compared to what it used to be [speaker001:] yeah I think it's getting better more competitive [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh we see uh teams getting in the play-offs every now and then with uh five hundred records or a little below even [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] the uh AFC Central is a lot like that with uh Pittsburgh Cincinnati Cleveland and Houston nobody really dominated that division last year at all [speaker002:] yeah yeah another one of my favorites was in the old uh AFL or the uh uh American Football League the Dallas Texans when they started [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] in fact they were they out drew the Cowboys there for quite a while [speaker001:] okay I wasn't living here then so I can't talk much about that [speaker002:] yeah but uh but some of these some of the uh I get a little disappointed sometime with with uh players now days compared with the old players it seems like most the players today are [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] are playing for the money rather than the the uh fun and for the uh competition that used to be in the older days [speaker001:] well there's no doubt about that the money's there and the owners are willing to pay if unfortunately uh and you get star players like uh like Joe Montana making four million dollars a year and everybody else wants to match that type of salary now [speaker002:] uh yeah right [speaker001:] and of course the people end up paying for it are the fans [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh it's no wonder ticket prices are so high [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I don't go to games myself uh uh [speaker002:] yeah I can't afford to go to them [speaker001:] no you you really can't not when it costs twenty six dollars a ticket and uh so much for parking [speaker002:] nah you you take yeah you take just two just a man and wife by the time you pay the tickets the parking uh any kind of refreshments or anything there you can spend a hundred dollars right quick [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] and not many people can afford to spend a hundred dollars on the weekend [speaker001:] yeah I think the owners have somewhat lost sight on that because uh they are all wealthy people and uh the expect that uh the average Joe is going to be able to to go to a game and uh pay for that type of entertainment [speaker002:] yeah yeah and also I don't like the deal uh with the uh Cowboys stadium where that you to get a decent seat you have to buy a season ticket [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] the only seats they have available are in the end zone [speaker001:] yeah it looks like Jerry Jones is trying to make as much money as he can out of this deal uh he's got his own TV show and he opened the Cowboy Corral out in in the parking lot there [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and uh every every opportunity there is to make a dollar he seems to be exploiting that [speaker002:] yeah but that's that's true just about every [speaker001:] I think there's still a lot of distrust for uh for an Arkansas man to come here and own uh uh Texas team a team in Texas [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh I don't think that's going to die very quickly he is getting some support there were a lot of people that are uh that were skeptical and the Cowboys are coming back and they have a pretty good team Troy Aikman looks like to be looks like he's got the star qualities for a quarterback [speaker002:] hum yeah yeah yeah if they'll just give him some protection and don't kill him before h e [speaker001:] yeah well I was surprised at the the way they drafted last year they didn't really didn't go for the uh big offensive lineman or the defensive lineman they're going for the skilled positions so quarterbacks they really [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] really didn't need that type of uh player [speaker002:] yeah and I you know I think defense really is what wins wins uh in the long run you can have the best half back there is or the best quarterback but if they don't have any blocking maybe they can't do anything [speaker001:] yeah they've got an awful lot of good draft picks coming up it's going to be interesting to see what they do with them [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so hopefully we'll see some more improvement [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh the other teams in the NFC East uh they're they're getting uh older uh they're going to have to like the Washington Redskins uh that that's an older team and they're going to have to start rebuilding pretty soon too [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] looks like we'll reach a point of uh parity there where the Cowboys may start being a little more competitive with the rest of those teams [speaker002:] yeah what [speaker001:] I don't know what Philadelphia's going to do without Buddy Ryan it might be interesting to see [speaker002:] uh I don't know I I have mixed emotions about him uh sometimes I like him but at the same times I love to see somebody beat him [speaker001:] yeah he's uh one of those guys you love to hate [speaker002:] because he's got a mouth on him [speaker001:] kind of like uh Jerry Glanville [speaker002:] yeah man you love to hate [speaker001:] yeah they they do pick up the image of a team though uh and they create a lot of excitement locally so I think they're good for the game just because they are diverse and they bring a different attitude [speaker002:] yeah yeah but um but he yeah to me he's just like the Yankees you just [speaker001:] but uh they're not my favorite people either [speaker002:] you love to see someone beat him [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but um they do have a good team [speaker001:] well Buddy will probably get another job [speaker002:] yeah and I think old uh I think Cunningham is an excellent quarterback [speaker001:] oh he's great I saw him play when he as at uh UNLV he was not only the quarterback but the punter and he can punt the ball sixty yards no problem [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah I imaging he could play just about any position on the team except maybe a defensive lineman but he's a very excellent athlete [speaker001:] he's a very good athlete that is true uh-huh yeah Philadelphia expected to do a little better this past year unfortunately they uh they got cut a little short [speaker002:] yeah well I don't they uh the games they lost lost I don't think they lost by any blowout I think they were all close games [speaker001:] no I like the team I really really like the Eagles a lot but uh Buddy Ryan is not one of my favorite people so I wasn't too disappointed to see them lose [speaker002:] no I I'm wondering where he's going to wind up [speaker001:] I don't think he's going to get a head coaching job this next year [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] he'd be lucky if he can get an assistant uh job someplace [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um he's just one of those guys he's created such a controversy in Philadelphia nobody wants to touch him right now [speaker002:] yeah but uh he'll he'll wind somewhere [speaker001:] I'm sure he will he's not going to have problems there if not in the NFL then in one of the other leagues [speaker002:] yeah I'm kind of interested how this new uh league's going to summer league's going to fare [speaker001:] the World Wide Area Football League WWAFL or whatever they call it WWAFL [speaker002:] World Football League yeah yeah [speaker001:] yeah I think that the NFL is going to use that league as uh uh kind of like as a minor league to recruit players [speaker002:] yeah the way people talk about uh there's not that it won't be as good as the NFL because uh there's not that many good or quality football players I can't believe that [speaker001:] not only that but they don't pay the money either [speaker002:] yeah but uh [speaker001:] uh it's very low uh scale compared to the NFL [speaker002:] but uh I still think there's plenty of good football players around that just were not able to get on the NFL because the NFL's teams were just full [speaker001:] right well some people I'm sure the the more talented people in that league are going to try to uh impress NFL scouts with their play in that league [speaker002:] yeah but yeah and wind up in the NFL [speaker001:] possibly but that's that's uh one in a million shot if they have the talent to be in the NFL they're going to get drafted and make a pro team there aren't going to be too many people that that'll make uh the NFL out of uh WWALF [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] it will be like Italian basketball with the uh with with the uh NBA [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] some guys can come back and play in the NBA but most of them don't really don't have the physical skills or the talent [speaker002:] right but uh I'm I'm looking forward to the season I think it's going to be fun yeah [speaker001:] I think it will be a good year the Cowboys are showing constant

[speaker002:] well this is going to be very boring boring because I don't [speaker001:] hi you don't at all [speaker002:] no and uh unfortunately it shows I uh I'm supposed to I'm way overweight but uh I've had a problem with uh high blood pressure which of course is directly connected to it and my doctor's trying to get my blood pressure under control [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] before I start in any exercising [speaker001:] or too much of it yeah yeah you need [speaker002:] so anyway I did join the uh uh the Texans up at uh [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] uh Springcreek [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and I've been up there a few times but didn't accomplish too much because I just run down too quick [speaker001:] yeah I haven't been up there um but I understand they've got a nice pool and that's my favorite form of exercise is swimming [speaker002:] uh that would have to be mine I hate exercising it's so boring [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] uh I would much prefer to like walk through the woods [speaker001:] oh yeah most of my my forms of exercise come in the form of a five year old and a two year old [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh running after them or going biking with them or just exploring you know on a little exploration exploration hike you know through the neighborhood it's amazing you know how many earthworms you can find and and to a five year old they're they never get old you know an earthworm every single time she finds one it's uh it's a brand new exciting activity for her [speaker002:] isn't it amazing [speaker001:] um-hum it really is [speaker002:] well we um back when my my I have four sons they're all grown now and and two of them are married with children of their own but when they were just uh pre teenagers we um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] we decided the only way we could afford vacations is to go camping [speaker001:] oh yeah isn't it great [speaker002:] and we thoroughly enjoyed it I mean we went whole hog we had the tents and everything else and and pretty much roughed it sleeping on the ground and all [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh I like to think that my children my sons learned a lot about uh the outdoors uh uh uh being self-sustaining [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh uh I would have no doubt what so ever that any one of them could be dropped in the middle of no where and they'd they'd exist exist somehow [speaker001:] well that's neat my uh my husband was uh was a boy scout and he uh actually went very far in the boy scouts and he was in The Order of the Arrow and he absolutely um you know the earth is is part of him and he is part of it and I think that's a real important thing and we we enjoy going camping we haven't yet had them sleeping on the ground primarily because to them uh or to the five year old the two year old would freak out about it but she wouldn't quite get totally unnerved but the five year old still has a fear of spiders [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I'm afraid that if she woke up one with her we would have to pack up and come home so we've primarily done our camping by cabin up at Turner Falls up in Oklahoma [speaker002:] oh wow well okay that is understandable oh yes I'm very familiar with it very beautiful place [speaker001:] isn't that a beautiful place [speaker002:] I've been up there several times [speaker001:] well it was up there actually that she got her fear of spiders because we sat and watched a tarantula for a long time we we you know we'd never seen one [speaker002:] oh what a shame [speaker001:] or she had never seen one we my husband and I had but she we'd never seen one as a family and so we just sat and watched it for the longest time it was you know removed from us by probably five or six feet so we weren't concerned about it and we just sat and watched it and we explained you know how it did well that night she had a nightmare and she has been terrified of spiders since but we still go up there and we still have a great time [speaker002:] well good I'm glad to hear that about the only thing uh I might suggest is uh do the same thing again introduce her to a to a spider at a reasonable distance where she isn't frightened [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh and that that that the the nightmare I'm sure was just a a freak I'll bet it wouldn't happen again [speaker001:] I think not yeah I think it was you know being in a new place being kind of out of out of sorts and everything all combined but [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] we uh that's you you know that's our favorite form of exercise is is life and we do our own yard you know we uh we we enjoy the activities that provide exercise both of us would love to exercise on a routine basis but our life doesn't um really have that much time in it so we just enjoy what we can along with our family you know [speaker002:] well that you couldn't pick a better way of doing it with your family [speaker001:] well yeah we have a [speaker002:] and and you're you're certainly all getting an education while you're doing this exercise [speaker001:] that's kind of how we feel about it we can't you know there's there's there's things that uh the only thing that is forever is the earth well we hope it's forever yeah and uh and you know therefore [speaker002:] as far as we're concerned [speaker001:] it you know the girls can learn things in school about everything that is temporary but as far as really knowing the earth there's no other way to really learn it but to experience it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and we really have a great time with it I'm sure that's the way that you felt with your boys [speaker002:] oh definitely definitely it was a learning experience uh now we I guess we camped just about every public campground in the state of Florida [speaker001:] oh and Florida's absolutely wonderful for that I understand I've I've never lived there [speaker002:] oh yes yes yell they used to be but now they're trying to really put it to the the the uh visitors I think they're doing a very stupid thing [speaker001:] oh with Walt Disney World and [speaker002:] well they charge extra now they there was a time here a few years ago when they put an extra tax on all the campgrounds and the uh motels and hotels [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] so they are are uh you know really putting it to the visitors and people got a little fed up with it and they suddenly and suddenly the the foundling fathers of uh of Florida found out that they were losing beaucoup bucks people were going elsewhere for uh their vacations [speaker001:] by night they were trying to turn it too much into a business [speaker002:] exactly so they got rid of that tax in a hurry [speaker001:] oh that's good we've uh not been brave enough yet to brave that trip with these with the two small children I mean you know in the car [speaker002:] uh yeah I can appreciate that [speaker001:] it's it's uh it's you know getting up to Turner Falls or uh up to Lake Murray is about as far as we've really tried to go in a car we have gone down and uh uh gone down to the New Braunfels uh San well we were headed down to Sea World in San Antonio [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh we stopped along the way and enjoyed ourselves along the way but um you know that's that's pretty much as far as we've tried with little ones [speaker002:] well the the trick is to stop frequently and let the kids get out and run [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] now uh I'm alone now myself and and I I have graduated from sleeping on the ground to uh going in a motor home [speaker001:] oh um-hum [speaker002:] well the fact I live in it and there's just my dog and I now my dog is a wonderful traveler but I do have to stop for her quite frequently [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it works out fine I mean I stop I'm never in a hurry to get anywhere [speaker001:] and no reason to be [speaker002:] like it takes me two days to get to Memphis [speaker001:] and that's that's not terribly far [speaker002:] no it's uh it's about an eight or nine hour drive really [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] but uh I make it in two days because I I don't push it [speaker001:] well there's so many neat places along the way I mean you've got Arkansas you know and [speaker002:] oh definitely oh absolutely incidentally oh I can't remember the name of that place there's a beautiful park up there and they do have a uh uh oh sort of a hotel a lodge a lodge that's what it is [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and it's just off the interstate and the kids would love it because they have playgrounds for the children and all and they have uh several nature trails [speaker001:] it's just off the interstate that goes through Hot Springs [speaker002:] uh it's just below Hot Springs [speaker001:] um okay [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] well that wouldn't even be a very far drive [speaker002:] it's lake something [speaker001:] I'm not I I ought to look into it uh because we were kind of entertaining entertaining the thought of taking a uh you know like just a five or six day trip in the not too distant future to kind of kick off the summer [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I [speaker002:] well the next time you go across the state line or when you come back in be sure and stop at one of the Texas [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] welcome bureaus [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and ask them for their literature on the the uh state national parks in the state of Texas [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and you'll you'll get a collection from them the you wouldn't believe there were so many parks in the state [speaker001:] I probably wouldn't and I've lived here all of my life [speaker002:] well it it there there are so many for instance have you ever been out to Tyler State Park [speaker001:] oh yes I have I have been to Tyler that was one place we went when I was a child [speaker002:] all all right you [speaker001:] we've not taken our children though [speaker002:] there's a place to take them and uh oh good heavens up there just this side of Texoma Texoma not Texoma uh Texarkana [speaker001:] uh-huh Texarkana uh-huh [speaker002:] there are three or four state parks up there [speaker001:] we ought to head out [speaker002:] we uh and they're all great and and again there's the nature trails [speaker001:] um-hum ah [speaker002:] for your exercising [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] we almost forgot our subject of the day there but be sure and stop at one of those Texas bureaus tourist bureaus and get their literature [speaker001:] yeah yeah well I certainly will Jack it's been real it's been real uh informative for me to talk with you and I I certainly enjoyed it [speaker002:] well it's been my pleasure uh Gina Gina is that with a G [speaker001:] okay uh-huh it sure is [speaker002:] that's that's uh uh Italian heritage isn't it [speaker001:] I don't have any Italian heritage my my mother actually chose it because of Gina

[speaker001:] what do you feel about it [speaker002:] uh well let's see um generally I don't think there should be much gun control uh I like to I like to do a lot of hunting and I have my own gun at home and stuff but uh the older I get I think the more I believe there ought to be gun control for instance uh just yesterday I go out my front door and somebody had shot a dog out of their front door their subdivision and the thing kind of wound up right where my kids get picked up at the bus stop [speaker001:] oh really that's kind of creepy [speaker002:] so uh yeah it is creepy you know and uh you know it makes me think hey you know there's a lot of a there's a lot of nutcases you know living even in you know in your subdivision and I mean [speaker001:] yeah well what do you think about like automatic weapons and stuff I mean those can't be used for hunting [speaker002:] yeah see yeah you look like look at automatic weapons and things like that and uh you know clearly they have no no useful hunting purpose and uh [speaker001:] yeah unless you're really bad [speaker002:] yeah even then if you're that bad it probably wouldn't help any anyway just uh it'll help you kill like I mean up in Virginia a lot of hunters get killed anyway just with shotguns you know so I can't imagine what it'd be like if they're doing it with automatic weapons [speaker001:] oh really what kind of gun do you use when you hunt [speaker002:] uh when I hunt I use a twelve gauge shotgun it's uh actually a lot of heavy broacher so it's kind of a short range kind of thing [speaker001:] uh-huh oh really what kind of stuff do you hunt with it [speaker002:] uh well I the last time I hunted I hunted turkey actually and uh you know it's [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] I wasn't too successful but I would've shot one if I'd see one so and [speaker001:] was that yeah when you use a shot gun do you have to like pick uh the pellets out of the when you're I mean [speaker002:] oh yeah well you're supposed and yeah you're supposed to sure you have to try to get it out of there [speaker001:] shot but yeah I guess I could you could probably hurt your tooth or something [speaker002:] uh well it's actually uh I don't know if this is true anymore but it's lead shot saying that you don't want to [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] you don't want eat a piece of lead but um yeah I think uh you're supposed to do that also you have to be real careful uh about what the animal's been eating you know like uh if you ever hunt pheasant you know sometimes they get into corn that's been uh like you know has mercury on it or something and [speaker001:] yeah ugh [speaker002:] and uh to keep the because the corn gets treated to keep uh insect dusts away so so if you go in and you dig into the pheasant yeah you can get mercury poison [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but uh so there's I mean there's sort of some risks to that actually uh let me think gun control uh I I generally generally actually since I live so close to DC and since it's the murder capital of the world and you know the [speaker001:] anyway yeah Atlanta's not far behind [speaker002:] yeah well they have guys I mean I guess they have this Atlanta too but I mean they got guys you know running around you know driving down the street with sub machine guns and stuff and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know I don't even let my wife and uh kids go down there anymore unless you know I'm with them or something and then we just stick strictly to the mall area you know we never never venture outside of that area so [speaker001:] yeah well I mean I feel as if nobody you know if there weren't already hand hand so many hand guns and everything prevalent you wouldn't need you know you wouldn't need one for self-defense but it seems like there's so many of them uh that it's really impossible you know it'd be impossible to it'd be impossible to do anyway I mean people would buy them regardless whether it was uh legal or illegal illegal I think [speaker002:] yeah doesn't that kind of strike you as especially in big cities that uh you know the law enforcement agencies aren't really capable of of providing the kind of protection that you they should be able to provide [speaker001:] no not at all our house as a matter of fact there's some guy that walked in and stole one of my roommate's bikes while he was in the shower just the other day and that's kind of creepy to we live I live right down town and uh if they'd wanted to you know [speaker002:] yeah yeah uh-huh coming at or something you know [speaker001:] yeah yeah if they wanted to shoot me or something there there wouldn't have been any problem I mean they just it was in broad it was during the day too so obviously they don't have a whole lot of fear of uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] being caught by the police in anyway anyway [speaker002:] yeah I you know I feel like like you know the when they when they interview these criminals you know the burglars and things they that the two things that they say keep them out of a house best are guns and dogs because they [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah we're getting a dog as a [speaker002:] yeah so they know there's a dog there they know there's a gun there you know they're probably not going to rob you they'll probably go to the next house [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh if they if they suddenly pass a really global law that says you can't have any guns you know there I mean there's guaranteed to be a higher percentage of people just breaking in assuming that these guys don't have any guns and [speaker001:] um-hum it's just crazy I've seen the statistics statistics on the number of deaths by hand guns in the United States compared with like Canada and and it's just uh I mean they have like you know a handful a year [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] uh and it's just outrageous how much how many we have here but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I don't I don't know if there's anything that can be if gun control would solve that problem [speaker002:] yeah contributing maybe contributing factors too nobody nobody knows about yeah I'm I'm usually pretty skeptical on that kind of stuff these studies [speaker001:] yeah and besides that I don't think I think the NRA's got such a big lobby that I don't think they'd be able to [speaker002:] yeah clearly they have some other motive you know I mean their their argument used to be you know the communist were going to take over or something well they aren't anymore you know so what's the argument now well [speaker001:] yeah

[speaker001:] all right do you do exercise [speaker002:] I do yes I uh uh I guess it actually changes I do a number of different things simply walking with my wife and sometimes my daughter will come along on her little bicycle [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] uh and then moving up I run in the mornings not every morning it probably averages about two days a week [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] and then with my wife I actually go to the gym and lift weights which isn't I understand quite exercising but it's along the lines [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] how about yourself [speaker001:] well um that's a hard question to answer because I do physical things but I don't always set out for them to be exercise [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I walk with my parents occasionally nothing's real regular about this because I have a weird schedule and they have a normal schedule and um I play racquetball but I haven't since I've been out of school I don't have anywhere to do that but that's going to start soon again and um I play softball once a week which is kind of more recreation than exercise [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] because I really don't like to exercise I think that's the basic point of it is I'm not I I don't enjoy it if I know that it's exercise but if it's like a social activity or a recreational activity I don't mind [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] so I have to disguise it it's like feeding little babies food and telling them it's something else so that they'll eat it that's kind of the same thing for me I have to not know that it's exercise so I can do it [speaker002:] that's right right so you look at it more as a task [speaker001:] well yeah if it's exercise it's a task I don't want to do anything I have to do [speaker002:] right I see [speaker001:] I mean I'll voluntarily clean the bathroom but I won't do it if I have to do it [speaker002:] right right so I'm thirty two years old which is probably different than yourself [speaker001:] uh-huh right I'm twenty two [speaker002:] and so it's interesting that as you get older you begin to understand that you need to exercise my job at Texas Instruments I have to sit in front of a computer all day and make phone calls so [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] that I don't get any exercise doing that and plus there's a build up of stress so I need to go out and take those walks after dinner and I need to go out in the morning and run or I'll just get nuts [speaker001:] right uh-huh right [speaker002:] so that's kind of a motivator so even though I can look at it as a task the you know I kind of get the I get some kind of global benefit from the whole thing by saying well I'm lowering my chance of heart attack and thus that type stuff [speaker001:] right huh eating right and no cholesterol and all that [speaker002:] sure that all I I do all that [speaker001:] yeah we I'm sure I will do I'm doing that more and more than I used to I think I'm getting [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I'm getting better about this knowing that I need exercise and doing it but it's still at the task stage [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] is it a pleasure for you or are you [speaker002:] well it's a something as simple as a walk with my wife is very enjoyable I do that at the end of the day and it takes you know that that during that time the stress from the day goes away I get to share whatever I did with my wife and and vice versa [speaker001:] hum right right [speaker002:] going to the gym is is actually something different than than like oh and the running and I enjoy that too year I've been running since high school on track teams and the like so [speaker001:] uh-huh oh [speaker002:] so running I I'm at that point which you probably get to after about six months of dedicated running where you don't feel your muscles any more [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] and you don't think about the pain of it you you you take the time to relax some how and you think about other things during those first few months you have to think about running and why your elbow hurts and why you can't breathe and this and that and that's no fun and it's so hard to get past that for a lot of people [speaker001:] uh-huh right that's I never got past that stage [speaker002:] yeah the exercise the uh weight lifting on the other hand is actually you know I think I look better [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I have just a I don't I'm not a huge person I'm just a regular looking guy but just going to lift weights on occasion with my wife and my wife thinks the same thing about both me and herself that get that little bit of definition in your muscles is is attractive [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] so that pays also [speaker001:] that's good [speaker002:] yeah so so I guess that aspect of that takes away the work the with my wife which is nice I love her you know I enjoy being with her I guess that's one thing but also uh that that long term benefit of a little bit of tone in your muscles [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh right that's it I do the occasional push up and sit up I haven't really brought myself to go to the the gym because that's very stressful to me because I feel [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I felt real competitive there and I need to find some place I could go and not feel like there's all these people who are just huge and hulking that are [speaker002:] but oh yeah I don't I don't let that bother me but yeah that's something that comes with time too you know I'll tell you the sit ups and push ups are excellent [speaker001:] yeah right uh-huh [speaker002:] you know it's your own you you're you're struggling against your own body weight [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you can do have variety by putting your feet higher or lower by putting your arms further apart or closer together by doing them real quick or real slow and you can actually get a good work you can [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I know in the push up at least you can get chest muscles and the back of your arms quite built up just doing push ups [speaker001:] uh-huh that's a good idea but I do have my ride we have a stationary bicycle and a stair step machine here at the house [speaker002:] oh is that right [speaker001:] I'll do those once in a while just you know like at eleven thirty when Love Connection is on and I can't sleep I'll get up and stair step for half an hour so [speaker002:] right yeah right that's funny yeah [speaker001:] it's I guess pretty pretty healthy but I don't have an a regular plan that's [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I need to get started on that [speaker002:] well maybe you know maybe not I'd say I'd say at twenty two you don't necessarily need a plan as long as you're getting getting the exercise otherwise [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] when your life becomes sedentary is when you have to make yourself a plan and what's real funny about plans is that there's a struggle between [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh when you when you add something to your life when you add a plan to your life something else has to go away [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and that's the hard decision is okay if I'm going to run in the mornings what am I what do I trade it off for well the answer's sleep right if I'm going to walk at night what do I trade it off for well Star Trek [speaker001:] sleep uh-huh [speaker002:] or you know it it it's always trade-offs and you actually have to as you get older you have to re ally think what can go and what to to to replace this thing it's I mean not just exercise but anything it's [speaker001:] yeah right [speaker002:] very hard and uh I don't I don't think you should worry about not having a program yet [speaker001:] that'll come some day when I [speaker002:] yep yeah I guess if you care or if your wife your future wife uh gives you a reason to care which helps [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] well I think we covered it [speaker001:] well I hope so yeah sounds good [speaker002:] nice talking with you Craig [speaker001:] yeah you too have a nice day bye [speaker002:] you too good day bye

[speaker001:] okay so uh what do you think about it [speaker002:] well um I guess I I'm more concerned about public safety than I am about the um the concern for the private uh the idea of preserving privacy for the individual um because I can't really see why anyone [speaker001:] privacy right [speaker002:] um who has nothing to hide would object [speaker001:] well there is always the uh the possibility even remote as it is of uh of mistaken uh of [speaker002:] that's of course that is certainly true yeah [speaker001:] yeah and see that bothers me I'm I'm a I mean I'm I'm very much for drug testing [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh I really am I mean I'm going I'm going to take the negative side just for a second just to do it [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] um see I have to take uh medication for a uh for for kidney transplant and I'm going to be taking that the rest of my life now you I don't know how that's going to affect uh [speaker002:] uh-huh sure if you had to have a drug test yeah [speaker001:] right I mean I haven't had one yet um TI I work for Texas Instruments and and uh we you know we do have the random drug testing but I've missed it so far but I mean it in the back of my mind it always bothers me and what happens if it you know if it [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] if they catch it they think that I'm you know I'm on drugs and they send me and and have me uh you know go through this this thing you know yeah [speaker002:] checked out or whatever I but it seems to me that there are ways to accommodate that um I agree that that some innocent person might be victimized by a false test but I would think that um that some guidelines could be set up to avoid that for example that one uh positive would not be uh accepted as an automatic um reason for whatever they might be going to do if they found a positive uh dismissal or treatment or whatever [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but that that what it would do is it would trigger perhaps uh one or two more stages where further tests could be taken uh done [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] because um there are there must be people like you or in other circumstances that could come up with with uh false positives for certain kind of drugs on the other hand um I think there's certainly some professions that ought to be tested [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] because of the of their responsibility for the public welfare and certainly people in uh industries well the transportation industry for specifically uh you know specifically but um in many many cases [speaker001:] um-hum no yeah [speaker002:] whether or not an individual has a problem with drugs it's not even going to effect anybody but his uh you know himself and his own family perhaps um depending on the kind of drug he might be on but um and eventually that's going to show up anyway [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] in the way he works and so on but there's so many things that it would make a difference I guess I [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I uh I would not want to have anyone in my family uh victimized by someone who you know a a bus driver or a train engineer or something like that who um you know hadn't been tested [speaker001:] right well I you know I'm like I said I'm I'm very much pro testing um and and this is why [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh number one is I I'm I'm kind of I know this sounds like a slogan for the government but I you know we are in a war against drugs I mean [speaker002:] yeah sure [speaker001:] it's it's horrible I mean you don't know whether the person sitting next to you anywhere is on drugs or not [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and it takes some drastic steps at this point and I think personally the drastic step has to be that um that you can't work if you continue taking drugs I mean it's as simple as that I mean make it so [speaker002:] yeah make it difficult enough [speaker001:] well make it uh make not necessarily difficult but make it so that it's not glamorous [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] I mean it's glamorous taking drugs or at least it seems that way [speaker002:] yeah according to what you you hear the people who um have serious problems I mean we have um really I guess we're kind of lucky we really only know of one um [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] young man who uh who's a family they go to our church and it's the son and so on and he was friends with my children [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um and he's really the only one that I know of personally who got himself really messed up um having having been involved with drugs but I know of a number of other people who have you know gotten all messed up most of these are young people I work in the education system and so I have a little more contact with that but um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the effect that it's had on this young man's life is so dramatic that it's heartbreaking and he may never really be [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] a productive member of society But sadder than that he may never be able to have a normal happy life because it has strung him out so that he has anxieties now that are are almost uncontrollable I mean he he puts himself in the hospital fairly regularly thinking that you know he he's not sure if he's going try to commit suicide or not [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] I mean he's you know he's so messed up [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and um this was a nice sweet young man who teenager you know and he's now a young man about twenty I guess who um just got really down the wrong path and uh you know I don't know that that his problem would ever have been detected by drug testing [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but seeing what drugs did to him makes me see makes me realize what it could do to people you know in the work force as well [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um it's horrible [speaker001:] well then let's let's answer the second half of the question what limits ought to be put on it do you think [speaker002:] well the limits uh uh would I think have to do with what I'd alluded to before that there needs to be a further um that that one positive on a drug test would not [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] constitute uh dismissal or grounds for whatever the company or agency might uh have set up for those who genuinely have a problem in other words there needs to be um more than [speaker001:] um-hum treatment before for dismissal type thing [speaker002:] pardon yes right there needs to be more than one test and there needs to be some some measure of uh certainty before anything drastic happens there are lots of things that are involved there um such as perhaps insurance [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] uh you know denial of insurance for someone um and undoubtedly there are people who would be victimized by this um that would that you know it would be unfair and people who are on medication for example or um even even people who might be of the gay community and I'm not an advocate for that particular segment of society but um I think that there doesn't need to be fuel to the fire for discrimination because it makes a bigger problem [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] um so it seems to me that that um there needs to be some ground you know some rules that protect [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I'm not sure though when we talk about what rules if any that we should say well certain segments should not have to be tested I really don't see why [speaker001:] personally I think that's what I was about to say is that everyone needs to be tested [speaker002:] and yeah yeah I don't I don't know why it would be you know um bad to test just everyone and it may be you know it's not feasible to do everyone but certainly random testing the fact that people know that that they [speaker001:] that it could happen um-hum [speaker002:] yeah would be some measure of protection but the bottom line is that that if if you're going to stay clean and straight then um you're you're going to do that because you want to really [speaker001:] right well there's yeah there there's going to be some measure of incentive uh reward or whatever but the reward ultimately ultimately comes down to what you want [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so I I've got to agree with that [speaker002:] so um hum no that's very true well it sounds like we agree anyway [speaker001:] yeah I think so I think we I think we did pretty good [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] well all right well uh I guess that's about it [speaker002:] I guess if that's all we've done and I guess we've talked long enough [speaker001:] all right [speaker002:] it was nice talking to you [speaker001:] it was it was talk nice talking to you too [speaker002:] okay bye-bye [speaker001:] all right bye-bye

[speaker001:] hi Debbie how are you [speaker002:] oh just fine [speaker001:] what do you think of this weather [speaker002:] oh it's been beautiful here lately [speaker001:] oh I love it [speaker002:] yeah I was I was glad that Easter was nice because sounds like you have a child too [speaker001:] yeah yes you can hear her huh [speaker002:] yeah I've I've got a two year old and we hunted Easter eggs yesterday and the weather was really nice [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah I have a four year old and a one year old [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so uh yeah I'm glad it was nice too I [speaker002:] we had a [speaker001:] got a chance to to go outside and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] just have a nice day the um I remember last year wasn't it raining a lot this yeah all that flooding and everything [speaker002:] it was raining last year we had uh-huh we [speaker001:] I'm glad we don't have that this year so far [speaker002:] oh oh it was awfully rainy last year it was a it was a very very wet spring remember how they had all that flooding down uh south of downtown all those people got flooded out [speaker001:] uh-huh we live just north of Trinity Mills and it floods there you know [speaker002:] oh did it [speaker001:] quite a lot um it's not it doesn't usually damage any businesses or anything but you can't get off of thirty five to um [speaker002:] oh really I did [speaker001:] to go to Home Depot and that's a problem [speaker002:] yeah oh gosh yes uh the a lot of people go there [speaker001:] yes or Target for that matter now [speaker002:] yeah I'm I'm we're not from Texas we're from further we're from Missouri so it's it's [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] the weather down here is a lot different than than it is uh uh at home yeah [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah we're not from Texas either um we're I grew up in Pennsylvania so [speaker002:] oh so you're really [speaker001:] yeah it it's not like this in Pennsylvania [speaker002:] no I like the winters but I don't like the summers down here it [speaker001:] it's awfully hot [speaker002:] it's terribly hot in the summer here I just [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] when we moved down here our we had a our vehicle didn't have an air conditioner [speaker001:] oh you're kidding [speaker002:] I'm not well we didn't well I we really really don't need it very much in Missouri where we're from [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] but um oh we suffered that first summer we traded that thing in as as soon as we could because it just it's indispensable down here to have air conditioning [speaker001:] oh I'm sure I I think you would probably [speaker002:] it would be terrible [speaker001:] down here yeah I'd just I think it's a necessity we um we have I guess we bought that my car in Colorado that's where we we moved from and uh [speaker002:] um-hum oh [speaker001:] so we we had a feeling we'd be coming back this way and again there they don't sell all the cars with air conditioning it's you know it's really a not [speaker002:] yeah it's [speaker001:] it's almost a luxury [speaker002:] oh it is you know uh [speaker001:] we didn't have air conditioning in our house or anything [speaker002:] oh yeah that would be nice oh I I get the the our electric bill in here July and August is just about kills me it's because it's so hot [speaker001:] oh yes it does [speaker002:] because I don't think they build them as energy efficient down here as they do up in the north I just really don't [speaker001:] no I don't think so either no [speaker002:] because of the winters winters I kind of miss winter since it it didn't do anything down here this winter [speaker001:] oh no we didn't even have any of the famous Dallas ice storms [speaker002:] no we didn't no we didn't did we [speaker001:] no isn't that surprising [speaker002:] that was that is surprising and I I it was uh really odd but we went home to Missouri at at at Christmas and I we had well we ran into town and in the ice [speaker001:] uh-huh oh [speaker002:] as we were coming into town and then it snowed a half a foot [speaker001:] oh my gosh [speaker002:] so we got our fill we went home at Christmas [speaker001:] well you know we lived in Colorado for four years I guess [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so and we you know we had a lot of snow and I I really don't miss that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] my husband says he certainly doesn't mind shoveling missing the shoveling I mean we had a big sidewalk and he didn't like that at all but [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] I don't know [speaker002:] I'd rather have the snow than the ice [speaker001:] yeah oh definitely [speaker002:] because in Missouri we have a we have a lot of ice [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and snow but uh but the the ice is really bad because it knocks out power lines and and you just you just absolutely at least when you've got snow just about everybody has four wheel drive vehicles [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] so the ice you know that's that's a whole you don't you don't need a four wheel drive vehicle you sit and spin uh [speaker001:] it doesn't matter right Colorado wasn't bad for that because um it so at least in Colorado Springs where we lived it was so sunny most of the time [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] that at right after it snowed it would almost always be a bright sunny day [speaker002:] that's a [speaker001:] and all of the roads would be clear you'd still have the snow on the yard [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] the kids could play in it but it'd be a bright sunny day and you know it would it would melt and you could drive around and it was really no big deal [speaker002:] that'd be nice did you all work at TI uh TI Colorado Springs [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] oh okay we got we had a lot of people from my husband's old group that moved out there [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] yeah and they're still they're still out there though uh [speaker001:] that's good they scaled down quite a bit they have a lot of changes out there lately [speaker002:] did oh they're they are everywhere they [speaker001:] that's true certainly not localized there [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] but we I don't know I I don't really miss the snow I miss the change of seasons myself [speaker002:] yes uh-huh [speaker001:] the fall is what I really miss from Pennsylvania [speaker002:] it just everything just kind of gives up and dies here [speaker001:] yeah it just turns brown and makes a mess nothing pretty about it [speaker002:] no it just the the trees just go to about the first of December and then just oh well it's time to die so it just it's just an ugly mess [speaker001:] um-hum my folks don't live in uh Pennsylvania anymore but for a long time I would purposely go back and visit in October [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] just so I could see the trees and the fall and such a pretty time [speaker002:] yeah my grand my grandparents took a tour of the oh of the northeast this past Fall and they really enjoyed it they said that the color was just fantastic [speaker001:] uh-huh it really is and I think you don't [speaker002:] this year [speaker001:] I growing up there I just assumed that's how it was all over the country I never really realized it was such a local [speaker002:] well yeah [speaker001:] thing I [speaker002:] yeah well the maple tree the maple maple trees have a lot to do with it maples make a lot of nice color [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] which there are none down here [speaker001:] nope [speaker002:] it's too hot for them we have a lot of Maple trees in Missouri so we have a lot of nice color too but uh the northeast really has the corner on that [speaker001:] yeah they they do [speaker002:] on the on the real nice color but uh I I like spring I like I like the reason it's I like that spring comes quickly here [speaker001:] yeah I do too I'm ready to get outside and get the kids outside and [speaker002:] yes uh yes [speaker001:] and seems to just even my one year old it really changes her temperament she can be in here all grouchy and [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] put her outside and hey she's fine [speaker002:] oh definitely oh my my my two year old she hates to be put in indoors anyway and just [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] well I think long winters would really mess up mess her up uh [speaker001:] my my son born he was born in Colorado and when we first moved here um he was three I guess just turned three [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and for the first week we were here it was over a hundred every single day it was in July [speaker002:] oh whew yeah [speaker001:] and he was lethargic he really he wasn't used to the heat at all he [speaker002:] yeah huh-uh [speaker001:] would go outside and he'd turn into a zombie and walk around like he didn't know what was going on but he's used to it now I think he's I mean [speaker002:] I know [speaker001:] he certainly doesn't like the heat but he doesn't become lethargic anymore [speaker002:] yeah well when we moved down here it was it was June and and it was just like a shock [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] how oh being it's just so much different I mean the heat when it gets hot in Missouri it it it'll get hot for a couple of days in the in the in the mid to upper nineties and people think it's terrible and then it and it always just goes away [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it just I just couldn't it was just oppressive the heat down here [speaker001:] that's a good word for it [speaker002:] and I just couldn't um make my family understand this is hot uh [speaker001:] really hot so well it's been good talking to you [speaker002:] well nice talking to you too [speaker001:] hopefully we'll have some more good weather but [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] we'll see [speaker002:] okay take it easy bye-bye [speaker001:] all righty bye-bye

[speaker001:] [Clicking] Uh, I think, uh, actually I'm fairly pleased with the benefits that we have at the, uh, working for a large corporation. And, for me, there's absolutely no question what's the most important benefit [LAUGHTER] [child] [speaker002:] [Talking] Right. [speaker001:] I think it's health care. It's what, I think everybody would say that. [speaker002:] Oh, and if you try to get it outside of your corporation, you're going to pay an arm and a leg. [speaker001:] [Bird squawk] Right. Belonging to a group is the, belonging to a health group is probably the most important protection you can have after you, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] [Sniffing] Uh, so-, the, uh, [throat clearing] sometimes I think it's more important [LAUGHTER] than salary. [speaker002:] Uh, do you also get dental? [speaker001:] Yes. And, uh, I don't know if I would rank that second but, uh, since I have three boys, uh, it, it can turn out to be important. Yeah, you know [speaker002:] Oh, I know. [speaker001:] in a, in a given year, dental ca-, dental expenses can really kill you. [speaker002:] Now my husband is with, uh, Northwest Airlines and he gets, uh, you know, the full health and dental and, uh, we have four children and what you pay just to have teeth cleaned is outrageous. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And I don't know how people that don't have it can afford it. [speaker001:] Right. It's, uh, [speaker002:] Or maybe they don't [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Right, uh, and then, uh, uh, if the cleaning doesn't get you, the orthodony will. [speaker002:] That's right [LAUGHTER]. That's right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh, I guess that would be up there. Uh, I'm not sure if I would rank, uh, how I would rank that next to, say compared to retirement or, uh, uh, uh, pretax savings was another thing that I think is a [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] a great, a great benefit. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] And I, I think it's really something that the, uh, the government ought to encourage more because, uh, there are all these complaints about how we're not a saving country [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and where the average savings rate is something like four percent in this country and fifteen percent in, uh, Germany and Japan. Uh, [speaker002:] Well, it's a lot easier to, to save it when you don't get your hands on it first [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Right. When you have the, when you have the, uh, the economy to scale and everything that a large corporation has, and you can, uh, offer some incentive and if the government goes along by not taxing it when you put it aside [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] you can really build up, uh, the savings and the, that you wouldn't otherwise do and, [speaker002:] Uh, what about, what about, uh, lesser, uh, benefits perhaps for you but for, for the women in the, in the corporation. For example, uh, [lipsmack] oh, [speaker001:] Leave? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] Do they e-, even, do they have father leaves or anything like that? [speaker001:] [Sigh] You know, I, I don't think so yet. They may have, uh, just plain parental leave, which either one can take. [speaker002:] [Static] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, I, their, uh, I know their maternity leave is on the order of six weeks which I think is too short. Uh [speaker002:] Oh, I do too. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] uh, uh, I really think that we need to get into the mold where we talk about years rather than months or weeks. [speaker002:] Oh, I think, I think it's just a crying shame, uh, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] for a mother to have to go back to work at six weeks. [speaker001:] Right, and, uh, [speaker002:] She isn't recovered [LAUGHTER]. And, uh [speaker001:] There, [speaker002:] the infant needs her desperately, [speaker001:] [Cough]. [speaker002:] at that point and time. [speaker001:] There ought to be, uh, uh, some compromise that could, where, uh, where the person would be guaranteed [swallowing] a, uh, career type position but not necessarily a continuation of exactly the same position [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, in exchange for a longer period of time. [speaker002:] Right, I agree. [speaker001:] It's, uh, it's so important to families then and, uh, and yet anybody who's gotten far enough to get a good salary is really reluctant to give that up. [speaker002:] Oh, sure. [speaker001:] Uh, [speaker002:] Especially in this day and age. [speaker001:] That, [speaker002:] You don't want to start over again anywhere. [speaker001:] Yeah, you're right. I think you've put your finger on the one benefit that I, that I would most like to see, uh, changed [throat clearing]. Uh, the, uh, parental leave. [speaker002:] Well, I think they're at, they're com-, they've come a long way. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Uh, at least some companies. Some of them, uh, my girlfriend, in particular, that works for a, a rental car agency and, uh, as manager and, uh, they have a very, very poor leave policy and, uh, I just don't know how, how women do it. Particularly, single parents who don't have the support at the other end. Uh, [speaker001:] Right [throat clearing]. They do it by shortchanging their kids. There's no other way. I mean [speaker002:] That's right. That's exactly right. [speaker001:] uh, unless they're part of some extended family which is unlikely. Uh [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] people moving as much [sniffing]. And, uh, they just, it's just a terrible choice, you shouldn't have to make it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh [sniffing] you're right. [speaker002:] [Talking]. [speaker001:] And, uh [throat clearing], [speaker002:] One of the benefits we get, of course, is travel [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, right. Boy, would I like to have that. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] It's wonderful [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] The only trouble is that you can afford to go anywhere but you can't afford to stay once you get there [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, listen I have friends in a lot of different cities. If you just fly me there, I'll take care of that [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's right. You have to have an awful lot of fun just, just getting there, is, has to be half the fun. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Right. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] [talking]. [speaker001:] So [throat clearing] and, uh, I guess the,

[speaker001:] Uh, so my favorite team is about the Rangers. [speaker002:] Is it? I'd have to agree with that. They are my favorite team, too. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] A little disappointing the last few years. [speaker001:] I'm telling you. You think they'll sign Ruben? [speaker002:] You know [speaker001:] No? [speaker002:] I really don't. I just don't think, you know, with that guy from Pittsburgh getting all that money, twenty-seven or [LAUGHTER] twenty-nine million or whatever it was, I just don't think that they're going to be able to sign Ruben Sierra and it's just going to be a shame for, you know, our area. [speaker001:] Right. Yeah, I think it's going to have a big effect if they don't on the other, uh, Hispanic players. [speaker002:] Oh, I do, too. I just, [speaker001:] I think [speaker002:] The main thing, [speaker001:] that's going to be the big problem. [speaker002:] It's just going to effect on the, the team, you know. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] We just can't seem to, you know, I think we've been in this spot, I think we finished second once or maybe even twice. I don't know, I [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I'm, I haven't been to a baseball game in a couple of years. It's just, it's just too disappointing. I just watch them fall every year. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] I was a Pete Incaviglia fan and, uh [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh. [speaker002:] I liked him, but, of course, I understand baseball decisions are all just, decisions like that have to be made by someone [LAUGHTER]. Glad it's not me making them. [speaker001:] Right I think they just want to stay mediocre and draw their two million fans out there and then be happy with it and not have to pay the bucks to get a contender in here. But, [speaker002:] They say as long as they draw up two million fans that [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Greave and Valentine will be there. [speaker001:] Right, yeah. [speaker002:] So, and that's the name of the game, too. You got to make money. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] You know, pay these players so much money, now, it's just [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] it's frightening. You and I should be so lucky to, you know, to go out and swing a bat and get two thousand dollars every time you swing the bat [LAUGHTER] or something like that. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's true. But, uh, they were talking about trading him, if they're not able to sign him and, uh, use the money that it would take to sign the guy, you know, to pay for pitchers or, you know, what it, what it, what they, what else they need. Because they've got the hitting, but they need the pitching. [speaker002:] Yeah, they really do. [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] I think they, uh, I think they need them all. I just don't under-, I understand the big cities, like in New York or L A or somewhere because big cities and, you know, a guy, a pro athlete can go out there in the afternoon and probably make five thousand dollars just by doing a personal appearance at a [speaker001:] Oh, I know. [speaker002:] at a men's clothing store, or something, or sporting goods store, but, I realize the difference, but, I just don't understand, [speaker001:] Yeah, it's sure aggravating when you go out and bust your butt working, you know, your day job and you can work your day job the rest of your life and not bring home as much money as they bring home in one game. [speaker002:] Oh, I know. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I tell you. [speaker001:] It's real aggravating, but, [speaker002:] But, one thing I don't understand is why a group, you know, headed up by George Bush would buy the Texas Rangers and not really get behind them because I tell you, we need a winner in this town. It looks like our Cowboys are coming back but, [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] So that's, that's going to be a big help to Dallas, but, you know, in the past half a [LAUGHTER] dozen years, all we've had is the, uh [speaker001:] It's always got, [speaker002:] the soccer team. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's always, it's always wondered me why, I mean, they act as though this area is not, you know, a big metropolitan area, but you think we'd, someday get an owner in here that could afford to buy the, [NOISE] the, the players we need. [speaker002:] Oh, I know. It's, [speaker001:] Just real aggravating to [breathing] because I've lived here, you know, since, well, I was born and raised here, so I've been a Ranger fan since about seventy-seven, so it's a lot of losers [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, I know. [speaker001:] It's about to get, you know [speaker002:] I've been one, [speaker001:] as bad as the Cubs or whoever, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah, I've been, I've lived here since seventy-four and I've really been a Ranger fan for the longest time and [throat clearing] excuse me, I don't miss a time picking up the morning paper [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and checking the box score. I mean I follow them and I follow them like I follow the Mavericks and like I follow the Cowboys, but, and I want to see them win, because you know, damn it, they, the fans deserve it. I mean, it, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] You know, we have pretty, uh, great fans, put two million people in that stadium. [speaker001:] I'm telling you. [speaker002:] I love Nolan Ryan. I guess you probably love him, too. [speaker001:] Right, I think this town would go crazy if they ever got a, even a playoff team. [speaker002:] Oh, I [speaker001:] T-, I mean, [speaker002:] do, too. [speaker001:] It would be packed. And they got that new stadium they are building. So, at least, at least that will be exciting [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] It will. [speaker001:] when we get that, but, [speaker002:] Well, where do you think they are heading this year? [speaker001:] Uh, [breathing] it's hard to say. It's going to be depending on where the, what they do with Ruben Sierra and, uh, I mean, I'm getting tired of them going into each year saying, you know, Bobby Witt is the answer and Kevin Brown [speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] is the answer, and, man, that's getting old, you know. These guys have been pampered. I mean, it's time to, to either, you know, put out or shut up. [speaker002:] Yeah, Bobby Witt [speaker001:] And, [speaker002:] gets forced into wins like seventeen games or whatever and they have the later ten game winning streak [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and they give him all kinds of money and then he just goes right down the tubes. [speaker001:] And Valentine and Greave, they're about to get, you know, they're about to get old. But I like this Sandy Johnson.

[speaker001:] so PC's personal computers do you have a personal computer [speaker002:] no I don't not at home I work with them quite a bit though [speaker001:] um-hum hm I I work with them at Kelly Services doing uh data entry [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] um-hum what do you what do you think about them [speaker002:] the well I think they're useful I think they're in some in some instances they're they're over used well that's not the right way to say it um [speaker001:] you mean instead of people or [speaker002:] well I think that uh some some work places where I've been they they set up like everybody has their own PC [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] which a lot of times everybody doesn't need a PC and it really without them knowing how to use it properly it slows them down more than it helps them accomplish something [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] they spend more time messing with the PC than they would actually accomplishing the task that they're trying to do if they didn't have a PC at all [speaker001:] um-hum and you really have to be able to type pretty fast before you know before it it really saves time [speaker002:] uh-huh that's true [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and you have to you know be familiar with the like there're so many different software packages it you have to be familiar with the one that you're going to be using most [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] a lot of times uh people know about half of the capabilities of a package that they should know to actually be able to use it properly and so they waste more time with their trying to uh to figure out how to do you know other things than they would if they if they actually understood what they were trying to do you know like uh they want to to format a report a certain way [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and if they really understood the capabilities of the package they could they could do that in uh about you know half the time that they spend trying to figure out how to do it without spending the time to learn the package properly [speaker001:] to set up the boundaries correctly and [speaker002:] right exactly [speaker001:] how many lines you're going to use in it and [speaker002:] uh-huh a lot of times they they they do it manually on the computer which just really is a waste of time and then if they ever have to change anything in that in that in the document they have to go back and redo it all manually whereas if they had learned the package properly to start with and had set it up correctly the package would do that for them [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] whenever they wanted to make a change so I I've seen that as a problem [speaker001:] can't can't you put can't you put it on a disk and then just edit it if if you need to when you go back [speaker002:] right but in some in some cases the with the formatting what I'm talking about is that they would set up they set up a certain um document and it may be eight pages long [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and they set it up manually so that they have all their spacings and formattings and tabs set manually [speaker001:] um-hum and and and um [speaker002:] and um then when they have to make a change say they want to insert a paragraph they've got to go through the document and reset all the page breaks manually [speaker001:] rewrite the whole thing [speaker002:] and rewrite the whole thing instead of having the if if they had set up the formatting on the system itself it would do that for them and save them a lot of time but a lot of people don't spend the time to learn the package [speaker001:] how does the word wrap work on that do you end up with very different length lines [speaker002:] oh no no you can left and right justify the whole thing it comes out just perfectly spaced like a block [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] it'll it'll automatically it's like typesetting it'll automatically do that for you [speaker001:] and it divides the words by itself [speaker002:] usually it doesn't divide words they usually have it it have it space the words in a line rather than divide a word [speaker001:] oh okay um-hum [speaker002:] that you see like in a newspaper [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] they typeset they don't usually break words in a newspaper if the if one line is going to be a lot shorter than another line they just they just add spaces to that line to make it look long as the rest of the lines [speaker001:] right um-hum they space it out in in the line itself oh [speaker002:] right and most computers do that most packages most software packages will do that for you [speaker001:] they um um-hum [speaker002:] and I've known people that have used a package for for five years you know and I would say well have you you know you know more about this package than I do how do you left justify and they would say I don't know [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it would take me maybe two or three minutes looking in the manual to figure out what command it was to caused this to happen and they would say how did you do that and I'm like well it's really easy and they were like well I never knew that and that obviously they'd never considered looking it up you know [speaker001:] um-hum do you think it's a lack of training um or it's just that they don't use the materials that are available to them [speaker002:] sometimes it's sometimes well it's it's a number of different things sometimes they don't uh they don't think that they can get any information out of the manual some manuals aren't really designed very well [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but some of them are and more and more of them are coming out written in a way that it that just a a basic general user can understand them so I think um people think it's going to take them a lot longer to learn it properly than it really would and so they're really wasting time rather than saving themselves time because they think well it's quicker just to do it myself when it's really not [speaker001:] right um-hum it's better to learn it directly from the manual [speaker002:] well I think so [speaker001:] especially when you have to trouble shoot some things [speaker002:] um-hum exactly [speaker001:] because a lot of the times the computer the program still has uh bugs in it and you have to work around it [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] hm have you worked mostly on IBM um [speaker002:] uh the the with PC's they're either IBM or IBM compatible mostly [speaker001:] um-hum yeah that's uh [speaker002:] that is you know the industry standard [speaker001:] that's all I've seen in offices is IBM um-hum [speaker002:] uh-huh there's a lot of of really good IBM compatibles too they don't have to necessarily be the IBM brand but they have to adhere to that industry standard [speaker001:] right well do you think it's been five minutes yet or [speaker002:] oh probably [speaker001:] oh okay well well it was nice talking to you thank you bye-bye [speaker002:] okay bye-bye

[speaker001:] All right, Carolyn, When do you, are you reading the papers about the, the Middle East summit? [speaker002:] Uh, some. [speaker001:] Yes. I'm just a little bit too. I think, um, I think I was worn o-, worn out from Middle East after the war. [speaker002:] Yeah. I think it kind of, uh, it didn't really take over the first page quite as much as it did I think during the war. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, um, we definitely need something there with all the hostages and [speaker001:] [Lipsmack] Yeah, yeah. Wha-, [speaker002:] what all. [speaker001:] That's I think, uh, I don't know in the short run it would be really nice to get the hostages all back. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I think that's really, uh, really important. I, I, [speaker002:] [Noise]. [speaker001:] I, I guess we grew up in such a different world I could never even imagine taking hostages. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But I think they just have a whole different world than we do so, [lipsmack] I don't know. But I don't know what do you think some of the long term repercussions might be? [speaker002:] [Lipsmack] Oh, [NOISE] well, you know, I just see this Middle East situation with, with Russia and everything there that's happened I think that that crisis has kind of slowed down, and I see the Middle East as being, you know [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] the real [NOISE] hot spot of the future so to speak. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, I guess I view it as being the prime importance as far as [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] trying to negotiate, trying to wind down some of the tensions and everything that are there. [speaker001:] Yeah, I think, um, I don't know I have, uh, I just have this, this civil rights mentality I, I guess. You know should we or, or you know, sho-, should we, uh, those, I wish those countries could have the same type of freedoms or whatever that we do. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I guess that's what I, I hope for them. But some of them don't want those freedoms I think. Their, their religious beliefs may, um, may not, you know, they may not want it as a whole so I think that's something that has to be considered too. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But I think that's a, that's really a long term type thing. I know that the, the, it said think about long term repercussions and I was just thinking, well, peace is peace [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know, and that really is the nicest thing. [speaker002:] I guess the question in my mind somewhat and, and it depends on the country, you know, I think some are more peaceful than others. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker002:] If you look at, um, Iraq for example [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and you know the recent thing with the U N going in there [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and the, the bomb development and all this kind of stuff, you know. Gosh. I think, you know, we should have got him while we [LAUGHTER] could [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. Yeah. [speaker002:] or whatever. [speaker001:] I, I think so. I think, um, [speaker002:] And I think there's a certain mentality [speaker001:] And, [speaker002:] to that that's in the Middle East, you know, the, the constant fighting, you know and, [speaker001:] Right. I think, I think they realized we would probably never push him out and, uh, I think the other, probably all of the other Arab countries said that we were sort of wimpy for not forcing him out. [speaker002:] Yeah, I think they, they look at force as a way of [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, their, their means to their ends. [speaker001:] Yeah, yep. [speaker002:] And, uh, so I, you know, I don't know so much if these peace talks are going to, I don't know how much they'll stay to them. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You know, if, if we, even if we say that we're going to do stuff, I don't know how they'll stick to that [NOISE]. [speaker001:] Yeah. I, I think the, the thing is though I, I guess the, the Arab countries that used to argue with us or not support any i-, ideas that, that coincide with the, the U S ideas or whatever used to probably receive money from the Soviet Union. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And I guess that's all gone. I think that's really, uh, probably what started the whole process. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I, [speaker002:] Well, that's probably a bonus on our part. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yes, it is. [speaker001:] I think, I think that they're s-, they're so much more vulnerable now because they don't receive support [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] from the Soviet Union so I guess they're saying, well, you know, we can eat two ways or we can get this aid free from these countries two ways. We can either act like we're going to be pro-communist or act like we're going to be pro, uh, pro-democracy and whatever gets us the most honor that's what we'll act like we're going to do, but we really won't change in the long run. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I think that's the way I sort of see them all working, you know. [speaker002:] I tend to agree with you. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] You know, I think they have in mind what they want to do and I think a lot of times their might make right. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, you know it, kind of the forceful, you know, I don't know. But I just don't think peace is uppermost in their minds [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. It's, it's really funny as an American and always being an ally with the Israelis. I always find it very hard in my heart to a-, to align with the Israelis because they seem to be just as bad as the Arabs, [lipsmack] you know. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But then again they have to live in that environment. They have to be subjected to all of the Arab bombings, [speaker002:] [Noise]. [speaker001:] and terrorist attacks and whatever. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Then they have to negotiate almost everything and then you think to yourself, well, you know in your heart you don't want to be aligned with somebody that's mean and cruel to someone else, but if that's the environment that they have to live in and survive in, then you have to sort of like, I don't know, logically,

[speaker001:] um what's our topic [speaker002:] taxes do we pay too much [speaker001:] taxes right um [speaker002:] well do we [speaker001:] what do you do [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] I guess that I mean it all depends really on what kind of bracket you're in [speaker002:] my tax bracket is is pretty high up there I pay the I generally pay the maximum tax bracket and uh I think that we're paying too much because I don't have any children [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] and I pay a lot on property taxes [speaker001:] um sure [speaker002:] I don't have any um I don't you know I don't use an awful lot of city services it it you know it's like I have to work [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but uh I have to work all the time just to make enough money to pay the taxes [speaker001:] um-hum right [speaker002:] and um you there's so many people who wanted a dib of the federal money [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] or the state money or whatever it is and I just sometimes many times I end up feeling like I'm paying too much in taxes [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] how about you do you pay too much [speaker001:] uh well no I can't really complain I'm a student um and I I work as a co-op at uh Georgia Tech Research Institute and uh I'm gonna get back most of what I earned I mean most of what I pay in taxes and uh and uh one one of my parents is still claiming me hm [speaker002:] well when you when you go out into the uh when you go out into the working world it it it changes quickly um you look at your paycheck and you go oh my gosh where did it all go [speaker001:] um-hum I'm sure [speaker002:] um what kind of what kind of uh well have you paid a lot of in taxes have you been out working and then gone back to school or are you did you go directly from high school into into college [speaker001:] I went uh well I did work um just various jobs for some time but I I didn't make enough money to really make too much of a difference right [speaker002:] to worry about it have you have you been active in in politics trying to concerning this have you like worked on a political action committees or something like that [speaker001:] no no I haven't [speaker002:] I uh I haven't done any of that type of work myself um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but every once in a while when I hear up here at at um in DC area um one of the radio stations has been talking about the the Congress um Congress has added too towards a Members Bank there you know there's a bank that they all bank with and I guess it went defunct recently [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and one of the Congressmen has has written in the last three years almost about a thousand bad checks [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and we we the taxpayers float him a loan for all those all those bad checks no interest no repayment schedule [speaker001:] really really [speaker002:] and um it's causing quite a stir up here because we're so close to DC anyway it's really kind of curious to watch this thing occur [speaker001:] um-hum oh sure [speaker002:] um I I I think we pay too much and I've I look at my paycheck and I make well let's see they take out in state and federal taxes I think I pay forty two percent [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] forty two cents out of every dollar I make goes to the government and then they charge me sales tax and they charge me gasoline taxes and they charge me all these others and it's just too expensive I can't believe that [speaker001:] um-hum taxes um-hum [speaker002:] I I'm just thankful that I don't get all the government that I pay for [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] you know what I mean [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] do you have you used um student loans and things like that that were guaranteed by the government [speaker001:] no no I haven't uh I uh my father pays for my my schooling my tuition so uh I'm I haven't made use of that [speaker002:] what are you studying down there [speaker001:] physics [speaker002:] physics ooh that sounds like a fun fun field [speaker001:] everybody says that [speaker002:] scientific heavy science are you like in the particle particle research or [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] anything like that or is it more um applied physics [speaker001:] um I haven't I haven't gotten too terribly much into my major yet actually um the the degree I'm getting is physics there's a different one for applied physics so I guess you could call it more straight stuff [speaker002:] okay well maybe maybe you can figure out how we can stop this inertia that's rolling towards whatever it's rolling toward [speaker001:] than applied I doubt about that are are is America I mean are we pretty pretty steep compared to most countries [speaker002:] actually I don't think we are [speaker001:] nah I don't think so either [speaker002:] um like like Europe [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um England [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I know the taxes are a lot higher [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but they do have socialized medicine and things like that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and um I know that I was reading in the paper I believe yesterday that um they're talking or maybe it was on the radio

[speaker001:] Real problem the last few days, one of their, uh, young hopeless stars has apparently ruined his knee for this season, it was a catcher. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And they really don't have an excess of catchers and it's really kind of, kind of late to, you know, to start, be trying to trade for somebody, especially with the salary cap that the Rangers have. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] They're not the highest paying ball team around. [speaker002:] Oh no, no, they're not, are they. [speaker001:] But I, you know, I would, I would gladly take the salary of most of the guys, I'll tell you. [speaker002:] Oh, goodness, I would too, even the bench warmer, I would. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's right. I really haven't been an active Ranger fan in several years. I used to go, take my son, you know, when he was in high school, he enjoyed going to baseball games. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I'll have to admit I kind, I kind of went more to see, to see the other team a lot of times than I did the, did the Rangers, [speaker002:] Uh, yeah. [speaker001:] But, I think they're doing better. [speaker002:] Well, I do to, uh, I have boys, you know, like eight and eleven and we go quite often, [speaker001:] Yeah, I can imagine. [speaker002:] to watch the Rangers. [speaker001:] I used to love to play baseball when I was a kid. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Oh yes, we're heavy into that too. [speaker001:] I think it's more fun to play than it is to watch. [speaker002:] Oh, I do too. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And I think, uh, what caught so many of our attentions last year was that Nolan Ryan, you know, yes. [speaker001:] Oh of course, of course. As a matter of fact I read in the sports page this morning, he just pitched his first, uh, exhibition game a day or so ago, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and he pitched five, uh, yeah, five full innings. That was almost unheard of for a pitcher to, you know, to start out that strong. [speaker002:] Yeah, yes, uh-huh. [speaker001:] no big deal, you know, it's just part of a day's work. [speaker002:] Yeah, I know it, yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] He's something else, he really is. [speaker002:] He really is an, you know, as far as predictions and stuff, I really think the Rangers may come out real strong this year. [speaker001:] They could do very well, they sure could. [speaker002:] They coul-, because I don't know but last year I just figured they was under a lot of pressure because of all the publicity and everything, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh, right. [speaker002:] I really do. [speaker001:] Yeah, they've got, uh, I guess all, well all their players are signed now. Some of them are not too happy about it but there, there's no hold outs. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah at least, [speaker001:] So that should help. [speaker002:] that should help, it sure should. [speaker001:] Yeah, it should, uh-huh. [speaker002:] But in a way, I really do, and of course, there's a few more, you know, I think are good ball teams also. [speaker001:] Oh yeah, sure. [speaker002:] Like Oakland A's and the Giants I really do. [speaker001:] Sure, sure, uh-huh, Cincinnati. Yeah, there sure are. [speaker002:] I like to go watch the Giants when they come to Houston some times. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh, that's right. [speaker002:] But, uh, [speaker001:] I've never seen the Astros play. [speaker002:] Oh you haven't? [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] Oh, I have a few times. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, they're a good ball team. [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] They really are. [speaker001:] They sure are. Wouldn't it be something to have a World Series between Da-, the Rangers and the Astros. [speaker002:] Oh, wouldn't it, wouldn't it though [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Boy, I tell you that would draw a crowd, wouldn't it. [speaker002:] Wouldn't it. [speaker001:] It sure would. [speaker002:] Oh my goodness, we might actually get to go to a World Series, huh. [speaker001:] That's right, wouldn't that be something. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] It sure would. [speaker002:] That's something you dream about. [speaker001:] Absolutely. But there are a lot of Ranger fans around. [speaker002:] Oh, there sure is and, uh, that, I mean they really are. Uh, now Incavalia I don't know how familiar you are with him but, last year I was kind of thinking he sure did get in a slump. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But they're saying this year, their predictions is that he's really going to come out of it and, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker002:] be on top. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, boy, he's a bull, isn't he? [speaker002:] Isn't he though, [speaker001:] He really is gosh. [speaker002:] he sure is. He either hits home run or strike out. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, that's right. [speaker002:] There is not ever a in between for him. [speaker001:] That's right, it's kind of like Babe Ruth. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, they were saying something about this may be his last year with the Rangers though. Apparently I think his contract is up after the end of this year and they're not sure they're going to be able to sign him again. [speaker002:] To sign him again, yeah. Huh. [speaker001:] Yeah, that, you know, may or may not happen. [speaker002:] Yeah, oh you never know. [speaker001:] That's right, it's a long way away. [speaker002:] That's sure ri-, if you offer them money, I'm sure they'll, [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] they'll do a little bit of everything. [speaker001:] That's right, unfortunately the Rangers don't spread it around quite as big as some of the other teams do. [speaker002:] No, no, no, like that Joe Hosago [LAUGHTER], you know. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's right. [speaker002:] I mean, oh. [speaker001:] Is there going to be a ticket increase this year, price, do you know. [speaker002:] I hadn't heard. [speaker001:] I haven't either, [speaker002:] I, I really haven't, uh, [speaker001:] The, uh, those Cowboys have increased their prices again this year. [speaker002:] Oh yeah. [speaker001:] But I didn't know, I, I don't think I've heard anything on the Rangers, or I don't remember it if I have. [speaker002:] Well I hadn't either, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] We hadn't, you know, like I said, we, I don't even guess they've even thought about sending the schedules out yet. [speaker001:] Yeah, I guess it's too early. [speaker002:] Yeah, because we usually get one. We usually order our tickets way in advance. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, it's a good idea, yeah. [speaker002:] We, we try to go so often. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah if you have young, young children, you know, they, they get a kick out of it. [speaker002:] Oh, they do. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Well, I've enjoyed talking to you. [speaker001:] Well you too Lori [throat clearing]. [speaker002:] And, we'll hopefully we'll get to talk again. [speaker001:] Right, you take care. [speaker002:] Okay, bye-bye. [speaker001:] Okay, bye-bye.

[speaker001:] Uh, I guess my personal opinion, I, I don't mind paying taxes necessarily. I, I just sometimes wonder if our money is being used in the best way. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Uh, sometimes when I hear what, what they're, even what, even what the politicians are making, you know, when they're getting a hundred and fifty thousand plus benefits and that, uh, I think that's just a bit too much to be paying them, uh, and that's all tax money. When you figure out how many politicians and each one getting that much, it's just billions of dollars that's, I think is just being thrown away. [speaker002:] Right, right. And then when you read about that they're spending all the money on, you know, these studies that have no relevance whatsoever, that kind of ticks you off, too. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But, uh, somebody, somebody was telling me the other day that they heard some senator say that what we're paying, it's not that we mind paying taxes, it's that we're paying too much for a lousy government. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And I, I, I tend to agree with that [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I'm not really into what they're doing [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] per se, and I think there's just too many, too many levels of bureaucracy. I think it can be, can be managed by less, uh, less levels. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. Well, I know any time there's, there's a big, uh, budget cut, you know, I work with the state, and any time there's, there is a budget cut or crunches, it's always the small guy that, that gets hurt. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] It's never the, uh, the person that's making a hundred thousand there. It's always the person that's making the least amount, and [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] uh, and sometimes we're running around there. I see these, these, uh, supervisors running around, uh, having meetings. I, I really don't know what they do. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] I sometimes wonder, are, are they really doing anything, or, [speaker002:] Right, well, I think we're going to see a streamlining in the government. I just, you know, I, I don't know what kind of, uh, I don't know what, what level, or what, how long it will take for, you know, our country to start, the public in general to start saying, Hey, this is too much. We're not going to pay any more. You know, we're not going to pay for this, and you're out, you know. I think we're starting to see it a little bit now, but I think, uh, I don't know what, what kind of input we're going to get from the public and how they're going to go about doing it. Because I think, I think we're just getting taxed way too much. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I mean, right now we're getting taxed probably, probably around thirty-five percent, or more. And that's, that's, you know, that's me not making a whole lot of money. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, they got so many hidden taxes, that it's really hard to figure out how much you are paying, because, go to a grocery store, something like that, and you're paying a little tax here and you [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] so. Gas, I don't know about you guys, but there's probably at least about twenty-five to, to thirty cents of different taxes on, on our gas. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And you don't realize, [speaker002:] Yeah, we got a sales tax. Our sales tax is like eight percent, and I don't know what our gas tax is. I think it's somewhere around [child talking] twenty five cents a gallon. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So. I mean, they're hitting us up, and they may not raise it, you know, federally as much one year, but then they'll raise it somewhere in the state or the sales tax or property tax or whatever. It's just, I mean, you can see that your money is just not [LAUGHTER] going that far. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I know they say like with Reagan, they say no new taxes, but they changed the, uh, deductions on you, and that just raises your taxes, you know, they just get it a different way [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] so, I mean, to me, it did, uh, raise my taxes. [speaker002:] Right, well, I mean, you [child talking] could tell just by, just by how much money you have left over, and all of a sudden, I don't know [breathing], it's just, it's eating me alive. [speaker001:] Yeah, I heard someone say that, uh, if they would just, something about with the, uh, the defense budget, all that extra money they're throwing back, if they cut back by so much percentage, it could throw back about six hundred dollars, on an average, six hundred dollars,

[speaker001:] well I've been real um thinking I'd love to buy a new car right now if I could afford it but we have two cars right now and we're still paying on but I would love to have one of these new minivans I've got two little ones and I think that would be just the perfect family car [speaker002:] I right now my car is terminally ill so I am really looking at uh facing the purchase of a car [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and uh what I would like to have is so totally impractical for me that I won't do it uh well I would like for one time in my life to have a convertible [speaker001:] well what is it oh [speaker002:] and uh you know I don't even like the wind blowing on me so I don't know why I think I want one but I do uh I will probably stay with a foreign make I've had real good luck with them [speaker001:] yeah we have um we have we went out to buy an American car so we bought um a Chevy Nova about three years ago and then we opened up the the hood and it said Toyota made in Japan right across the front of all the engine parts [speaker002:] is that right [speaker001:] um-hum Toyota uh well the Chevy Nova is the same car as the Toyota Camry uh at that time was the same car so they just put different names on them depending on who they're being shipped to I thought that was pretty insensitive [speaker002:] oh well I didn't realize it I knew that one of the that Nissan which is Toyota had uh joined with had a plant over here and and I didn't know if it was General Motors or who but I I never thought of [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I don't know uh you think of Chevrolet and the good old USA [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum that's why we were so surprised to see Toyota written I mean imprinted on the engine it was real interesting [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] but uh I with so many options now available you know where where cars are concerned it just seems like there is there's almost too much of a choice anymore you know that there's so many different options and so many different prices and who has this cash back and whatever I think that if I were really serious about looking for another car I would take into consideration the price naturally but um you know I would really want something that I would want for that much money for ten or twelve or fifteen thousand dollars or whatever [speaker002:] uh well yeah and that's minimum [speaker001:] oh yeah definitely [speaker002:] it you know it's it's a major purchase now what we used to pay for homes is now what a car can cost [speaker001:] I cannot imagine that you know somebody I heard a commercial or something about a sixty thousand dollars car about oh oh it would how exciting it is to make that kind of a purchase and I thought I don't think I'd find that exciting I'd be wondering you know here I am buying this expensive of a car and my house isn't worth that much money [speaker002:] if they held their value that would be one thing but when you consider that when you drive them off of the show lot they're immediately two thousand dollars depreciated [speaker001:] that's true yeah [speaker002:] and you know that I don't know that I'll go with I've bought a new car the last three that I've bought and I don't know that I'll buy a brand new one again [speaker001:] yeah well we got a pretty we bought our Chevrolet brand new and then we bought a used car just a minute I'll change your diaper the we bought our our next car used and uh we had better luck with our used car and I like it more it cost us less money and we got more features and air-conditioning and whatever on it then we did on our brand new one for twice as much money [speaker002:] well I'm I'm seriously considering going that route instead of a brand new car [speaker001:] if you can find one that's reliable uh you know reliable if you can get someone that you trust to buy one from or you know make sure that you can have it checked out well enough [speaker002:] well some people you know some people have to have a new car every year [speaker001:] uh I wouldn't [speaker002:] or it you know at the most every two years and they don't drive them that much especially your foreign cars yeah like a Honda or uh a Toyota fifty thousand is just getting broken in for them [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and if I can find one or a repossession [speaker001:] that's we bought one like that [speaker002:] and with the banks being in such financial you know problems now that people you can find the banks willing to sell you a car [speaker001:] uh-huh we bought one car that way and had we bought it real reasonably and it was in real nice condition so because apparently whatever the bank get

[speaker001:] so um what do they do about recycling in Raleigh is there any public program [speaker002:] yeah they they uh get uh they regarding recycling they just gave us uh about five man about five or six months ago they passed out these um green containers to everybody in the city [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh they started out by just recycling newsprint and clear glass I think and or well clear glass and uh you know brownish glass and ah however no plastics oh cans was another thing that they're recycling um [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and so you know there really wasn't a lot that I could put in there anyway I just mostly had bottles um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it seemed like that uh plastic would would would've been very helpful to recycle well finally they started plastics but only the kind of milk bottle plastics [speaker001:] yeah um-hum oh that [speaker002:] how about how about in your area [speaker001:] well in Atlanta they um where I used to live they had a they had just started a program but apparently it wasn't city wide because I moved over to a different neighborhood and they didn't even you know no one had ever heard of this [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and um the one nice thing though is I'm is I'm lucky is I'm pretty close to downtown so um aluminum cans be recycled just by tossing them out in your yard and the bums come around and [speaker002:] um-hum do they have a deposit on them [speaker001:] um no they don't have any deposit but um you know there's a there's a thriving industry of homeless people that collect uh aluminum cans and turn them in for you know recycling the the weight in aluminum [speaker002:] right right yeah because uh in in places where there's a bottle deposit I know that if you discard anything somebody will pick it up which is a good argument in favor of deposits uh [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] course uh now it's Adopt-A-Highway they get rid of a lot of that anyway but I'm not sure when they do pick it up if they recycle it there uh [speaker001:] yeah um-hum yeah I'm not sure I I don't I think they only carry one bag when I when I've seen people out there you know [speaker002:] yeah well I mean well yeah yeah but I mean if you put you know I oh I see what you mean everything would be in the same bag and they would have to separate the cans from all the rest of the trash yeah [speaker001:] yeah hm [speaker002:] yeah that would that would be good because uh you know [speaker001:] um-hum yeah yeah that seems like it would be you know very labor intensive to actually you know go through it all and pick out the different things [speaker002:] um-hum right of of course if there's a deposit it's worth it for kids to do [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um now soft drink companies don't want that because it uh obviously it would have a negative effect on sales to some degree I don't know [speaker001:] yeah I I mean it's you know they have the cost of the cleaning equipment to clean the bottles and [speaker002:] um hm I suppose yeah but that would be cheaper than getting new plastic I I think it's just the fact it raises the price temporarily that they don't like [speaker001:] and things like that um-hum [speaker002:] it should be anyway well did you see there was an interesting article about recycling in the Wall Street Journal about three or four weeks ago [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] it talked about some commodities that are being recycled uh they they they these critics start recycling before there's an industry to deal with the stuff and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I forget where it was I think it was Portland Oregon ended up burning a bunch of it it was just piling up and they had no where to put it [speaker001:] yeah I've heard that you know a lot a lot of the you know more popular recycled materials like aluminum and um paper especially that because you know everyone's become much more environmentally conscious and you know has moved to recycle that [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] their you know the the the the the systems basically has this very large backlog of of material to be recycled and and processed and apparently in a lot you know in a lot of industries [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you can't just you know take a bunch of stuff and recycle it you generally you mix it with with new material [speaker002:] right yeah I think that [speaker001:] and that and that you know with you know coupled with the recession that there just isn't you know the demand for you know recycled product [speaker002:] yeah well I don't yeah I don't know I guess if as far as packaging materials are concerned are concerned if uh durable goods purchases go down you need less packaging I [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] I don't know how much sensitive things like soft drinks sales are to economic conditions though I I I I I expect it well I would expect they ought to be more sensitive than they are or something I think that's one of the things people think of cutting back on but it certainly would be a way to save money um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but um yeah in the the the article uh mentioned that it very much depend upon depended upon what kind of products you're talking about certain things and I believe clear glass is one there is plenty of market for they can use all they can get but it's other things [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and I think some of the plastics are are are are among those that's rather difficult to recycle it's just to recycle them there needs to be a greater economies of scale before they become uh viable [speaker001:] um-hum yeah yeah I think it depends on like the little number in the circle [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] that they have on them but because they I have a lot of friends that you know are very into recycling you know and say you know just about you know they they try and throw out as little as they can you know and and [speaker002:] hm um-hum yeah that's right right right um well I'm down I read somebody say he was down to uh one bag of garbage a week and that's about the same with me but I'll tell you my garbage is mostly by weight is mostly junk mail [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] if I could get rid of that it wouldn't be much at all it's just that [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] the taxes tend to uh keep going up but uh I don't know if it helps me any to look at some of the other countries and say well there's always someone that's that's worse off in what they end up paying but uh go ahead [speaker002:] I think I think we're always convinced that we're paying too much in taxes without getting back necessarily everything we'd like to but so far I don't think I've paid enough taxes to be too too awfully concerned about it yet [speaker001:] yeah I'm still still I'm able to survive and and uh working for a company that reaps some benefits from the tax money it's almost like you're paying your own salary I don't work directly for the government but uh getting government contracts and being in the defense industry as it were even realize a little slim these days it's still uh [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] still a feeling of you know it's not totally wasted dollars if you think about it some of it coming back your way [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh that helps the rationale any but it's still angering to see the abuses uh even though they're uh a relatively small percentage they still they sound humongous when they're you know you hear millions and sometimes billions of dollars spent and and even some of the arguments over the national endowment for the arts and what's happening in that area it's still a pretty small chunk considering what actually flows through that government so but those are the things that get us going or get us stirred up sometimes people [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] desire that that money not be spent well [speaker002:] do you all pay state income tax [speaker001:] no no Texas doesn't have a state income tax yet that's [speaker002:] neither do we and and and I agree with the yet part they've just started talking about introducing a state income tax and right now we pay an extremely high state uh sales tax almost eight percent [speaker001:] well by the time the city gets involved I'm not sure how many how many people have their hand in it but we pay eight and a quarter cent [speaker002:] wow [speaker001:] so it's it's pretty pretty much but I think it's divvied up pretty much too uh the county gets some the city gets some and the state gets some [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and it's it's quite a bit I think six something is the state and and uh the rest of the pie goes elsewhere but we're in a particular part of the state that's pretty well off so it's it's like we get a lot of that back as far as local taxation goes [speaker002:] well that's good [speaker001:] yeah we have a real good you know police department and real good uh city services and boy the parks are all over the place and there's a lot of lot of money spent on us but uh the poor rural folks uh barely can get ambulance service and everything else so it's it's a real mixed blessing I guess to [speaker002:] that's I think that's the biggest problem I have with the tax system is there there is such a disparity between between really the haves and the have nots and I I think the things that they use as a basis for distributing back the tax dollars needs to be looked at again [speaker001:] yeah it'd be nice if you could find someone oh uninfluenced by groups and and honest enough to find a way that would go over and then you'd have to find a way to make it work [speaker002:] I know that would be a a definite B V R M I R [speaker001:] yeah yeah the uh bureaucracy seems to spend more money just trying to administer some of these programs than the programs are worth uh it seems uh an awful waste of time to have so many people having to fill out so much paper just to get rid of so few dollars in some of these cases [speaker002:] I think a lot a lot of times it seems like the classic can't see the forest for the trees I I wonder if if they realize [speaker001:] so it make [speaker002:] the the magnitude of some of the red tape you have to go through [speaker001:] yeah and so much of that red tape was was initially and is added on to try and stop a given abuse you know you discover a particular problem and say well we ought to run this extra check and we'll have to file these extra papers to say well you you deserve this welfare or whatever and they just keep trying to to close all the loopholes and stop the abuse and all they're doing is making it worse and having to add more staff and and uh decreasing the efficiency of those who are actually trying to stop the abuse [speaker002:] and I don't I don't think they're getting their money's worth and I I I definitely don't think that the added steps are are getting the benefit that they would like them to I think it's just causing most everyone else more problems because if somebody wants to get around the tax laws they will find a way [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] if they want to badly enough they'll either find it themselves or they'll find someone to do it for them [speaker001:] right it does seem to be the case I don't know whether it's worth and the economy has gone pretty well for a hundred years or so with the government doing what they do with taxes steering investments and steering virtually every dollar you make or spend it gets uh steered one way or the other based on tax breaks you get and you know housing had tax breaks for a while and then they slacked off on that for a while and then just uh generally wanting to be in control of of where everything's going for the most part give you the best break if you go their direction I don't know what what would happen if we uh got rid of some of those controls and just went to what some people would say would be simpler of just having uh you spend this much uh therefore you should be taxed this much that would only encourage saving it's not a you know a tax your income because now you're talking about having to report it and all that kind of stuff [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but if you put the burden on the retailer who really doesn't care if you you know buy your groceries and the like he doesn't care who bought the groceries you're going to pay the tax on it so most people tend to spend what they make anyway in in our income income brackets [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so you know those fifty thousand dollars or the thirty thousand dollars would pretty much spend the majority of it and what they didn't save they wouldn't or what they could could save they wouldn't get taxed on [speaker002:] and that makes sense but like you said I mean it it seems simple and I think in a way it's so simple that people would be afraid to try it [speaker001:] yeah but you wouldn't be able to steer people toward a particular type of savings you wouldn't be able to say well you get better tax bonds if you you know avoid the capital gains tax and if you do it this way do this and you roll over your IRA's and all that they [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you wouldn't be able to steer people toward retirement and all that but boy if you save that much money and it didn't have the taxation problem well you might might do all right I don't know it seems [speaker002:] yeah even if you didn't invest in necessarily the the best thing you would have so much more to invest you you'd still be ahead [speaker001:] yeah that's for sure [speaker002:] and that's something that's something I need to to learn a lot more about is is under the current structure what is the best thing to be investing in for the future because that's a that's a scary thought you always hear that Social Security won't be around by the time we're sixty three or sixty five and and need it and that's a scary thought [speaker001:] right that's true plus what what there will be of it even if it's there isn't quite enough anyway so [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] you're looking at having to do it on your own for the most part and then hope what you did didn't go away yeah the uh the taxes are are kind of messed up I guess with the abuses and the things we've written into it but uh looking looking at some of the other countries and some of the other options you have in the world there it's not all that pleasant anywhere [speaker002:] we still look pretty good don't we [speaker001:] yeah pretty much well I hear one of my kiddos doing something they shouldn't be so I'll uh let you go and maybe [speaker002:] okay it's been nice talking to you [speaker001:] maybe maybe we'll catch each other again [speaker002:] okay have a good evening [speaker001:] I'll try bye [speaker002:] thanks bye-bye

[speaker001:] okay while I was waiting for you to connect I I thought of a couple of menus I decided it'd to be if it's informal or not you know if it was informal I'd probably choose something I mean just like hamburgers or steaks out on the grill [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] because that's a lot of fun especially this time of year where it's so nice out [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] um it was formal I'd probably go with something like a chicken breast or lasagna or something I'm not I'm not into formal dinner parties but [speaker002:] I see [speaker001:] I'd probably go with lasagna a green salad and garlic bread [speaker002:] so what what do you use for cookbooks [speaker001:] um I have a Pillsbury cookbook I got when I was married but it's kind of the bible of cooking for me then I have some from like church [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] that are more family recipes that are more useful you know budget cookbooks but [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and of course you get a lot from when you're growing up [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um I cook a lot the same as as my mom did of course I've added several different recipes but what would you serve or what would you [speaker002:] right well I I I think we come from from different backgrounds um so the the [speaker001:] well that's good [speaker002:] I I I start with different you know have different perspectives that you are I find the Joy of Cooking to be a remarkably useful book to to fall back on because it has almost everything in it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but on the other hand it's not very inspiring uh it's a good reference when you need to dig something up [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] what we've find very useful is a a book called The Thirty Minute Cookbook I think that's the title uh by Marion Burrows [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] uh which has recipes which allegedly can all be prepared in thirty minutes you know the whole meal [speaker001:] yeah that would be wonderful in these times [speaker002:] and so she's yeah now now I I find that the cutting up of the food and all that really makes it take a little longer than thirty minutes [speaker001:] yeah either they're really fast or [speaker002:] but but they're but they're but they're interesting they're interesting menus um [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] combinations that you wouldn't have normally thought of [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] what's one of your favorites [speaker002:] um gee the one I had most recently was was one that was had she she describes as Jim Beard's favorite um summer menu or something and it consisted of uh grilled kielbasa sausage um a [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] potato salad with olive oil and uh some tomatoes that had been chopped up with onions and curry powder and probably some yogurt was in there [speaker001:] wow sounds pretty good [speaker002:] um and that and that was you know that's that that's certain you can do in thirty minutes [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but there are a whole lot of you know I mean I I would recommend you look at that book if you're if you are a busy person Thirty Minute Cookbook [speaker001:] yeah those Thirty Minute Cookbook that sounds fun I find a lot of the cookbooks that I don't know that you buy over the counter ask for really strange ingredients or things I don't keep on hand all the time [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I have young children and our budget's set you know at this time but I want to use simple recipes that I have things on hand I don't have to run to the store to buy [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] or look for something I haven't heard of so that's why sometimes I shy away from uh more of a traditional cookbooks but [speaker002:] yes yes um-hum [speaker001:] but well it was interesting talking to you it's a fun subject food is one of my favorite things too [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] anything else you wanted to add [speaker002:] well you had said dinner you know you know what would I put together for a formal dinner we had we had some friends over as recently as Saturday night and and um [speaker001:] oh wow um-hum [speaker002:] put here here the inspiration was a combination of Julia Child for the dessert well you know a chocolate mousse recipe [speaker001:] um-hum that's good [speaker002:] and a sort of palate cookbook which has a recipe for a thing called chicken Marabella [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um which is this wonderful thing you can do um basically you're baking baking chicken in a in an open pan um having marinated it first hand my my wife did this part so I don't remember all the details but it's marinated in olive oil and some seasoning [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] um and cooked with some olives and some and some prunes uh there's a little bit of brown sugar in there and it bakes up it's a delicious thing and it's easy [speaker001:] that sounds good [speaker002:] comparatively so I [speaker001:] that sounds really good [speaker002:] um I'm sorry I just love food [speaker001:] it sounds like you guys are a little more gourmet than I am I'm pretty simple right now but [speaker002:] well maybe we had a little more leisure time to do it I don't know [speaker001:] yeah that's probably that's true I have little ones and we and they won't eat you know too many different foods right now so [speaker002:] yeah I found my kids were very frustrating when they were little [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] in terms of their tastes [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] on the other hand sometimes it was easy they'd you know canned ravioli was was one of their favorites and so it was easy to [speaker001:] yeah spaghetti's a pretty staple every other week or so so and it goes a long ways too so [speaker002:] open a can of ravioli or yes well nice talking to you Cheryl [speaker001:] all righty we'll talk to you later maybe [speaker002:] okay bye

[speaker001:] where you calling from [speaker002:] I'm in Dallas also [speaker001:] okay well we're pretty close then [speaker002:] I've never talked to anyone who's not from Dallas yet have [speaker001:] well you know I've been pretty lucky I've called sometimes eight o'clock in the morning before I go to my office and I've I've talked to a lady in Utah I talked to a man in New York and I talked to uh [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] a lady in Kansas or somewhere [speaker002:] obviously I'm not calling often enough [speaker001:] so anyway our topic was movies [speaker002:] I can handle that one [speaker001:] yeah I can I'm a movie buff I can too I'm a a junk movie watcher so but I see them all I see the junk ones by myself and I see the good ones with my wife I go see all the shoot them up bang bangs [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] all the uh strong R rated and my wife and I go see the the My Girls and the good ones [speaker002:] well I'm ready if you are [speaker001:] what kind movies you like [speaker002:] um oh you pressed one already I'm sorry okay um [speaker001:] yes I'm sorry course [speaker002:] I like most everything I'm quite fond of horror movies and science fiction uh-huh [speaker001:] oh are you okay so am I [speaker002:] um what about you [speaker001:] well I sort of well like I like them all but I'm a you know I'm an Arnold Schwarzenegger fan a Sylvester Stallone fan and I like detective type uh mystery dramatic types we saw did you have you all have you seen Cape Fear [speaker002:] no but it's on my list of things to see I haven't as a matter of fact I haven't seen whole lot in the last month or so but did you like it [speaker001:] have you okay yes that's tremendous that'll that'll be equivalent to uh Silence of the Lambs or something like that [speaker002:] oh did you I assume you saw that one yes I really enjoyed it I'd read the book and I thought they stayed very faithful [speaker001:] yes that was great they did yes yes it was a great movie [speaker002:] did you see the original Cape Fear before you went to see the new version [speaker001:] no I didn't no I missed that one [speaker002:] I thought I might rent that um [speaker001:] that might be a neat idea [speaker002:] uh well I'll tell you something that we just saw recently that is old old but I'd never seen was Fantasia [speaker001:] yeah bet that was good [speaker002:] it was not what I expected it to be [speaker001:] oh no it's a tremendous movie [speaker002:] it was but I mean I can understand that little kids wouldn't find it um particularly appealing it'd be way over their heads I think [speaker001:] right yeah I've seen it two or three times it's such a a great movie [speaker002:] and the music is wonderful [speaker001:] yes they uh everyone my wife's a teacher and all of her teacher friends are saying we need to go see Beauty and the Beast they say that's quite a nice movie [speaker002:] I wouldn't mind seeing that well actually we kind of like going to see things like Bambi and such too so Beauty and the Beast would be okay with me [speaker001:] right you bet we seen them all you see I'm such a movie buff I go out I'm self-employed so a lot of times I'll just uh I just have a two person office myself and my secretary and I'll just uh go out for lunch at noon sometimes go to a movie and come back at two that kind of a thing [speaker002:] so how often a week do you go [speaker001:] oh I probably average at least one and a half to two times a week [speaker002:] yeah see you're pretty you're pretty movie buffy I'd do that if I could [speaker001:] oh I enjoy it yeah I enjoy it a lot of times uh my wife will have to stayed after school till seven and I'll just uh leave the office at five and go to a movie and come home at seven and I'll be here when she gets here [speaker002:] have you seen the new Star Trek [speaker001:] no I'm a will see that though [speaker002:] that one and Hook looks like uh it would be good [speaker001:] Hook does look like it'll be good [speaker002:] and let's see what else is out new this year that [speaker001:] uh my wife and I saw My Girl and that was a good little uh that was a good little movie [speaker002:] it's supposed to be cute I heard it got pretty good reviews [speaker001:] yeah it was cute [speaker002:] um I was we were a little disappointed with Home Alone which we just saw we kind of catch them sometimes when they come around on videos [speaker001:] sure you bet [speaker002:] and uh I don't know maybe we just weren't in the mood but [speaker001:] yeah that was a little that was a little slapstick you know yes but uh My Girl will sort of it'll bring a little tear to your eyes or something it was cute movie [speaker002:] kind of well that's all right a lot of them do [speaker001:] oh I understand we uh yeah we see quite a few our daughter and uh son are moviegoers and future son-in-law they're all moviegoers so we've we just all go to movies [speaker002:] it's good entertainment especially if you go you know before the uh when the bargain matinees are [speaker001:] oh I think so too absolutely that's what my wife and I do on Fridays you know we uh meet at five thirty and uh go to the movie and then go out and go to dinner somewhere then come home [speaker002:] uh-huh well particularly if you see something that isn't very good you hate having wasted your seven dollars each or whatever it's up to [speaker001:] you bet well it's expensive to go to a movie I'll tell you [speaker002:] well it is particularly when you buy popcorn and everything [speaker001:] oh I know because we take uh so my wife and I take my son and her intended to the movie you're talking uh between tickets and popcorn and everything probably forty bucks [speaker002:] I'm sure I'm sure [speaker001:] because we go we go visit them Lubbock Texas that's where they're at going to school and there's nothing to do in Lubbock Texas but go to the movie and you better do it before nine o'clock you know [speaker002:] oh that's the last show huh [speaker001:] right but anyway we uh yeah we really enjoy it but trying think of another good movie I've seen lately uh oh I don't know I missed

[speaker001:] okay is uh that a sport you like to participate in [speaker002:] no actually I'm a spectator and I'm a second hand spectator as a result of my first husband's or my late late husband's interest in golf [speaker001:] uh-huh my husband likes golf also he's uh I guess he'd be a fanatic if he thought he could get away with it but he he limits it pretty good I um have tried to go out and play golf he would love it if I would go out and play with him but I stand there and swing and swing and I can't even hit the ball yeah I don't either [speaker002:] um-hum I can't even play miniature golf well well there are just some things that we're good at and other things that we're not but I am very good at watching it on television [speaker001:] right um-hum [speaker002:] and he was really uh enthusiastic about keeping up with the tournaments he could tell me exactly what day and what time of year and where the tournaments were going to be held and what the nature of the hole was and [speaker001:] oh so he's really into it wow [speaker002:] oh yeah he was a good golfer and as and did some you know instructions at the country club for a while [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] but uh golf tended to be so I am not really deeply involved in any following any of the sports but golf was one that I developed a working knowledge of a lot of the golfers and therefore I enjoyed following those particular players [speaker001:] yeah right more because of their personalities than their sportsman [speaker002:] uh-huh well part of it was the personality and their sportsmanship another part of it was I'd pick one out that was different than what my husband was rooting for so you know the competitor and I became involved in following his career [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and uh I know that that my husband Tom Kite was his fair haired boy and he thought he was spectacular I said whoa I'm not going to I'm not going to stay interested in him so [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] I decided Andy Bean was good competition any time they both played why he was just real excited when Tom was you know shown on the television and [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I followed Andy Bean [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] we both followed Lee Trevino into the Seniors [speaker001:] oh he's interesting I like to watch him yeah [speaker002:] he is he is a character not just a golfer but he's quite a character [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and there are some really really wonderful people in the game of golf who do give wonderful role models [speaker001:] yes yeah I think you're right [speaker002:] and I think it's critical it's critical to have a good role model [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] in any field any sports [speaker001:] yeah yeah I like to watch those skins games do you ever watch those where they just play for a certain amount you know for each hole they win they get the money for it I think those are pretty exciting [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh well I myself really have not seen a whole lot of point to the game of golf you hit a little ball you chase it you go find it and then you hit it again and lose it again [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I know the whole point is to get it in that little bitty hole but seems to me like if they made the hole bigger it'd be easier [speaker001:] yeah oh really I sometimes wonder why men like it so much because they get so frustrated and mad at themselves when they don't do well [speaker002:] oh I know oh yeah [speaker001:] my husband and his buddies are not very good they play like maybe once a month or less and uh so they all hit like in the low nineties and they think they're having a really good game so [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum oh yeah well my husband's average ran in the mid seventies so he wasn't bad [speaker001:] wow yeah that is good [speaker002:] he was pretty good but as far as influencing young people I think that that is uh that is one of the sports that you can carry into old age you can't play football at fifty five [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but it is a good healthy wholesome lifestyle and uh anything can be warped [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but I think that that is one of the sports that's a good healthy way to to move into maturity safely um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] uh-huh something to stay active at and for a long time [speaker002:] that's right that's right and a lot of seniors a lot of elderly people don't even take up golf until they're you know in their later years [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah and they can still get good at it [speaker002:] that's right that's absolutely right and it's something that [speaker001:] yeah well maybe that's what I'll do when I have time later on [speaker002:] yeah when you're too old to do anything else go play golf yeah but it's it's also something that husband and wife can participate in [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] or you can both enjoy the same sport and participate in separate circles [speaker001:] true [speaker002:] you know you can go to the country club together you can play with your friends he can play with his friends but you've both been out and exercised and you have enjoyed the day [speaker001:] right yeah or my favorite just ride around in the cart with him go somewhere really nice like Hawaii and just look at the golf course [speaker002:] you bet you get a lot of exercise that way um-hum well I'll tell you what if if they're not real good golfers sometimes it is not fun to ride around and listen to their exclamations all day long [speaker001:] oh yeah no my husband's pretty tolerant so he's not too bad to watch [speaker002:] um-hum oh mine had a very short fuse if he did something bad he's liable to take that club and throw it as far as he can throw it he's replaced almost as many clubs as he has balls I mean just get so mad he'd just wham that club up against a tree and break that rascal [speaker001:] oh no yeah gosh now my husband has a temper but he doesn't seem to show it on the golf course he's because he'll talk about the other guys he plays with doing that and how immature immature he thought it was and stuff so I guess he's real laid back about it [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] he he'll come home though and I mean he'll shoot when he was shooting in the hundreds and he'd tell me what a great day he had and about this great shot he made and everything I try not to laugh yeah this one on this one hole [speaker002:] uh-huh well I shot in the hundreds but I made this one good one [speaker001:] did you have to listen to long stories about how on the seventeenth hole I hit it and went this way those are it's hard for me to act nice about that when he goes on and on [speaker002:] um-hum well the one thing that is a is a drawback about it I think is the cost [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] membership in the clubs is expensive the equipment is very expensive requires special shoes requires special you know special equipment there's so many [speaker001:] right and then they want to play another course that's not they're not a member of and other fees it really is high [speaker002:] that's right that's right that's right it it can get very expensive and I can imagine what kind of costs are involved if you're going to try to go pro because you spend hours and hours and hours practicing [speaker001:] yeah oh yeah yeah [speaker002:] and they don't give those sessions away and nor do they give uh instructions away [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] as a matter of fact a friend of mine asked me if I thought I'd be interested in g olf I said I don't know I'll have to try it and see I've always watched it and he said well fine he said we'll just take you over to the course he lives near Brookhaven [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] we'll just take you over to the course and get you some lessons and let you see if you like it if you do then we can go golf together [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I said oh whoa great I get to walk all around a little green field all day but those kinds of things happen though you you get a little taste of it and you say hey this is not bad [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and you really begin to develop an interest in it but I am not an athlete at all uh you know I'm always the one that got hit by the bat in baseball and [speaker001:] me either [speaker002:] and uh hung hung hung my fingernails in the net in volleyball so I am not an athlete maybe golf is a forgiving sport I don't know [speaker001:] yeah at least you're just competing you're competing against yourself I guess more than everybody else out there yeah [speaker002:] it doesn't appear to be um-hum I really I I haven't really acquired an interest in it but I'm open to try anything you know [speaker001:] yeah that's kind of the way I feel [speaker002:] the one thing that is also detrimental as far I'm concerned my skin is very fair so I'm going to have to golf in the evening or I'm going to have to golf at a time when the heat of the day does not cook me and I don't think [speaker001:] oh right

[speaker001:] so uh do you keep a monthly budget or anything like that oh yeah [speaker002:] yeah I I'm one of those people who keep a record of everything [speaker001:] oh so you you keep record of all the checks you write and all the credit card [speaker002:] yeah and all the A T M transactions and everything and I've got a file for each of them and [speaker001:] uh-huh how do you categorize these things that's what always sort of stumped me when I sat down to do it right huh [speaker002:] I I have a file box and each file has a little piece of paper on it and each file there I have a file for each month of the year [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] and then I also have files for like credit card receipts and when the bills come in for the credit cards they go in the month that they have to be paid for [speaker001:] okay um so this insures that you know what your bills are and that they get paid [speaker002:] right unless I get paid on time like like for instance if a bill is due on March fourth I'll just I'll put it in the folder with March and that way when I get paid in March I know that whatever bill is in there have to be paid in that month [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh okay so that insures that the bills get paid before other things get paid for now do you uh-huh go ahead [speaker002:] right and that and that way I keep a running list of what bills I do have and that way I know if I have any extra money or not [speaker001:] uh-huh okay and uh what happens then when you don't [speaker002:] when I don't what [speaker001:] have extra money [speaker002:] then I don't do anything I've got two little boys [speaker001:] oh okay oh uh-huh [speaker002:] so I'm at home most of the time anyways but like once in a while like when my taxes came back I had extra money so I paid a babysitter to watch my kids for the day and I went to I went to goofing off and you know just something little like that but it's something that you really got to keep an eye on when you have kids [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] because you're always got to have money when you have kids [speaker001:] oh yeah so do you do anything about you know saying hey I'm willing to spend this much a month on food and this much a month on [speaker002:] well I have a I have a running budget for every month [speaker001:] clothing or uh-huh [speaker002:] and on that budget I type up a budget for every month in the year and it has the bills that I know I have every month electric phone food the kid's pediatrician [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] uh my Visa bill you you know all the bills I know I have every month are on that budget [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and so once all of those get paid I go through my file and see if there is anything else and if there's not then I know that money the rest of the money is mine [speaker001:] so is food in that list also and so you have a certain amount you spend on [speaker002:] oh yes [speaker001:] groceries that you expect to spend for each month [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] okay and things like um now some some expenses come up you know twice a year or once a year like insurance [speaker002:] right or well that comes up every six months for me or like tags come up once a year and you've got to figure that in too [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh so you have an entry for each month for those things [speaker002:] right whenever my tags come up uh there is an entry right there that says tags and then I just leave the space blank until I find out how much I owe for my tags and then I get them and that way I know I know that they have to be paid in that month so I'm expecting it [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh and and so you I mean each month before that do you put away you know one tenth one twelfth of it or [speaker002:] no usually I just pay it out of whatever paycheck uh is in that month because after I pay my regular bills I usually have approximately a hundred and fifty dollars and with that hundred and fifty dollars I pay things that come up like insurance [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] or tags or whatever happens to come up in that month [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I could pay with that hundred and fifty dollars and then what's left I can do what what I want with [speaker001:] uh-huh so now what about the uh long term considerations like retirement and college and stuff [speaker002:] well I've got an annuity fund set up because I don't know uh just the way I was raised I look toward the future [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] not only for my kids but for myself and I've got an annuity for me and every two months I buy my boys each a savings bond [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] every since they have been born I've been doing that [speaker001:] that sounds great [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] um so now what exactly in an annuity I've always found those a little confusing [speaker002:] an annuity is an account it's like a uh it's it's a type of savings account okay but you don't touch it you just deposit money into it but you don't touch it other than that and it just sits there and gains interest until your retirement [speaker001:] okay okay now do you pay taxes on the interest [speaker002:] not right now [speaker001:] okay only when you draw it out [speaker002:] if right [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] and like if elderly people they have a choice of having an IRA account and they get special discounts on like the um [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] what's the word I'm trying to think of the interest charges and stuff if they have an IRA they get special rates on it and stuff [speaker001:] you mean from the you mean from taxes or from from the federal government you mean uh-huh [speaker002:] right right for the elderly people and stuff that have IRAs set up and they get special discounts on that but an an annuity is it's a savings account that you don't withdraw anything out of you just keep depositing money into it [speaker001:] okay now I guess the question is is it better than an

[speaker002:] so what do you think about uh the recycling programs in Atlanta Julie [speaker001:] I don't believe that we're the recycling program here is just terrible I mean it's hard to find places to go I mean Kroger does a couple things they I don't think they do they do newspapers [speaker002:] I don't know there's there's big bins out there I don't know if they ever get I I really don't know what the details are there should be someplace where you could call and find out as a matter of fact I'm pretty sure there's a place you can call and find out the closest you know thing to you but I think there should be some kind of curbside service that's the only way I could really [speaker001:] yeah the one in Florida is so cool because they pick up everything they pick up newspapers and uh you know milk jugs and aluminum and tin cans you know like soup comes in and stuff [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] they pick up everything [speaker002:] during the summers like the around where I live the uh homeless people seem I mean they all have like shopping carts and stuff and they'll go around and collect cans and aluminum stuff and so we used to just save them up and then they'd come around and we'd give them to them [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] but when during the winter time I think they they move south or something so [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I don't do that anymore and the the recycling at Georgia Tech like that um outside the uh student center [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] they never empty those things [speaker001:] I know it I know it it piles up [speaker002:] they just overflow so what's a guy to do you know [speaker001:] I just don't know [speaker002:] I asked myself [speaker001:] I just don't know and now they have like bins and stuff that are a little more convenient because mean until seven o'clock you got to pay to park at the student center you can't really unload all your stuff [speaker002:] really huh well I you know it's true hadn't thought about that that is very unconvenient inconvenient even [speaker001:] I know it I know [speaker002:] but uh so you do recycle don't you [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] yeah I'm kind of I'm kind of bad about it [speaker001:] the [speaker002:] but if I if see a if I see a pile of cans or bottles or something [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I'll throw it in there but I don't really I don't ever take anything [speaker001:] well I mean it's really you ought to because the the the farmer's market recycles absolutely everything [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and since we go there all the time I mean [speaker002:] probably [speaker001:] be at all [speaker002:] but wait I've never seen you before who are you [speaker001:] oh by the way my name is Julie [speaker002:] yeah my name's Bill well [speaker001:] hi [speaker002:] hi [speaker001:] I'm from Atlanta [speaker002:] me too [speaker001:] neat [speaker002:] crazy [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] well is there anything else you'd like to share me about your recycling philosophy Julie [speaker001:] I just think that everybody ought to do it [speaker002:] do they do like what what about like um what kind of plastic stuff can you recycle do you know [speaker001:] the only thing I know that you can recycle is milk jugs [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] what about like those grocery bags [speaker001:] oh yeah they have uh uh what I what I used to uh now that I don't go to the grocery store much it's kind of moot but I used to just save up the ones that I got one time [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and then go and hand them to them the next time and use them over and over [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and but also most places I think like Big Star does and I'm not sure if Kroger does or not but [speaker002:] they'll ask you whether you want bags or paper or plastic [speaker001:] yeah and they they have like little little boxes that you can put your old bags in [speaker002:] aha [speaker001:] can bring them in [speaker002:] those petroleum products are gonna kill us [speaker001:] I know it I know it [speaker002:] it's hostile planet I think Julie [speaker001:] it it really is a small hostile planet [speaker002:] the petroleum pretty much I mean those petroleum products I think are the big uh you know [speaker001:] did you know that [speaker002:] the great Satan of the recycling [speaker001:] no really not did you know that like something like fifty percent of the world's landfills is like paper filled with paper [speaker002:] hm paper just seems so innocuous [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] paper doesn't seem threatening at all you know [speaker001:] well it is it is though [speaker002:] it comes from trees how can it be bad [speaker001:] it is because they [speaker002:] they treat it with chemicals or something why can't trees break down I don't get it [speaker001:] well they do treat paper with chemicals like yellow paper you know [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] takes something like twenty times as long to decompose you know you can bury a piece of yellow paper an it will still be there in a couple of weeks [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah it'll be whole [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] you'll be able to read off of it [speaker002:] I'm gonna switch from those yellow legal pads then [speaker001:] um hum [speaker002:] I'm glad you told me that because I use those at work where I work and uh but I can just forget that from now on I'm going to use I'm going to switch to the white ones [speaker001:] well white paper's bad too they they treat it too [speaker002:] well what about uh papyrus you know made out of bamboo you know bamboo stuff from the [speaker001:] I'm sure that's fine I'm sure [speaker002:] from the banks of the Nile [speaker001:] maybe we ought to just start carving in stone again [speaker002:] you think so [speaker001:] maybe [speaker002:] tablets [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think we should just abandon the you know the written word altogether [speaker001:] you think I don't know well I mean [speaker002:] no what do you think [speaker001:] I think we've kind of you know I mean everybody everybody [speaker002:] kind of radical I know but [speaker001:] if everybody had a computer we would no longer need paper at all [speaker002:] that's true if everyone had a two-way wrist watch TV's on their wrist like uh Dick Tracy [speaker001:] I would love that

[speaker002:] um anyway we're supposed talk about recycling basically what what your personal opinion is on it uh this is this is really for a speech research project they're doing so um I don't know Florida is pretty good about recycling isn't it [speaker001:] well they just kicked it off down here in in Sarasota county um [speaker002:] oh they did [speaker001:] they had been doing it they started first in Sarasota City um you know which makes up a pretty small portion of the county actually and um they've got these I don't know what if you're familiar with Sarasota county at all [speaker002:] um-hum yeah not quite no [speaker001:] they've got these on it's it's county wide program now and what they've done is they've broken everything down into garbage uh yard trash [speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker001:] plastic cans cans and glass [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] and then uh paper [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] which in the paper it's just um newspaper and corrugated cardboard is the only thing you're supposed to put in there no slicks um [speaker002:] yeah okay oh that's that's good let me ask you this do they require you to presort it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] okay see that's something in Minneapolis they're really strict on in terms of you got to put everything in its own little bag and really presort it really you know tightly but when I lived in Orlando it's like you could put almost anything in there and they'd just sort it out for you it was really pretty good if you're lazy like I am so [speaker001:] um-hum yeah yeah yeah right well you know um I talked to this girl who um she's a an an acquaintance of mine and and she's involved with uh oh what is the name of that company it's not Amway but it's the other big vitamin company Shaklee [speaker002:] oh okay yeah [speaker001:] okay and um and and she's just Shaklee crazy you know because it's her business and everything and um you know and she asked we were talking one day and and she asked me a couple of questions you know and she and and what she said that that generally the problems that people have with being environmentally conscious is number one they don't want it to change their lifestyle and and like you know especially make it anymore complicated or any extra work or anything which that's that's what recycling at home sorting does you know I mean it's a little extra work and uh [speaker002:] yeah right uh-huh [speaker001:] it can actually turn out to be a lot of extra work because what they do what they do here in Sarasota county is they've got [speaker002:] it can yeah [speaker001:] okay you put your garbage in a garbage bag and you set it out by the curb if you have yard trash you put your yard trash in some kind of container [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] um or you can have bundles up to a certain weight and certain certain dimensions tie them up and put them by the curb well the plastic cans and glass they give you this little tub and it's about a foot and a half deep and it's about one by one and a half foot wide and long [speaker002:] yeah you got to tie them up and everything and right [speaker001:] this is a little container and they have another one the same size that one's red and then they have a blue one the same size for the paper goods [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and so like you know you would have to rinse out your pop cans otherwise you got bees and ants and you know and and if you've got uh food containers or anything like that it's a big problem so not only do you [speaker002:] exactly it is you know big hassle [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah that's true I mean up here they give you one one of those containers and you put everything in it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so it's like if if you use a lot of stuff you it's like well you know let's say if you're a partying kind of guy and you drink you know like a couple of twelve packs maybe over the weekend [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] it's gonna be hard pressed to pressed to put all your recyclables in that one place you know so it's kind of a pain in the butt [speaker001:] this is true this is true [speaker002:] but um I don't know that's definitely one thing they could do to make it easier is to just you know have have those garbage people that make how every many make twenty twenty or thirty bucks an hour have them do a little bit of the sorting [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know and and maybe come up with a better system make it a little more convenient but I [speaker001:] yeah they've got these large garbage cans that you can rent from the waste management company here um if you wanna have a nice garbage can you know and it's on wheels and it's big [speaker002:] yeah oh you can actually rent those [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] okay that's interesting yeah up here the the city provides them kind of like [speaker001:] yeah well I think in I think in the city they do but out here in the county you have to rent them [speaker002:] oh okay so [speaker001:] and they just add it on to your water bill or something [speaker002:] so where exactly are you in terms of of like Sarasota are you north of Sarasota or [speaker001:] east of Sarasota um-hum [speaker002:] east okay and Sarasota is on the west coast [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] okay like south of Tampa right [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] okay I'm [speaker001:] yeah about an hour about an hour south of Tampa [speaker002:] yeah that's right okay [speaker001:] um yeah well I I listen to this talk radio station down here and it's it's really they they I don't if you ever listen to talk radio but [speaker002:] um occasionally [speaker001:] those guys they just kind of get into to stewing stewing stewing up trouble you know with the callers and things like that but they get into some really good conversations sometimes you know and some of it sometimes it's serious and they have some good feedback and all that stuff and [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] so I'm listening to that I kind of got an idea that I thought would be good was and this kind of fits into the uh the aid program the welfare program that's going on right now [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and it's like um

[speaker001:] are you in the market for a car recently [speaker002:] yeah I just bought a car [speaker001:] oh what'd you get [speaker002:] I got a nineteen eighty three Cavalier station wagon [speaker001:] uh-huh what what convinced you to get that one [speaker002:] well a a friend of my father's and he'd driven it all over the country and it runs great [speaker001:] um-hum oh incredible how many miles on it [speaker002:] it's like it has a hundred and fifty three thousand [speaker001:] and it's still running real well [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] oh great yeah we have um right now we have two cars um I have my husband and myself we have two sons who are drivers [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and one of which is a um an eighty eight Plymouth Voyager Van and then we have um about a year ago we picked up a second hand uh uh Audi [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh and uh that was a car you know a car a sedan and uh we got that I don't I'll the major things the reason why we got that is we had had a Nova and a well my son was driving and someone came into his lane and hit him and fortunately he was able to his I mean he was checked out of the hospital was out of the hospital by that night but the car was completely totaled [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and Mike and they had been my sons two sons had been a passenger in a car about a year and a half before that which was hit by another car [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] so I mean I got I was getting really nervous so I finally said we I want a really solid car so we found the Audi second hand I guess right now my criteria for cars is uh uh solid being solid able to take an impact [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and uh so uh I we're not going to be in the market for in the near future for any new car [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but the the things that I would want would be a solid car another thing I'd definitely want would be antilock brakes [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh our our van which is a a delight to drive does not have I I think the brakes on the Plymouth van is just are terrible [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] um if the road is at all wet and I'm and I don't go all that fast but the uh it it just doesn't hold it doesn't hold well at all so uh I I definitely would want to get antilock brakes so I don't know uh do you have any particular things that that are priorities on your list [speaker002:] well it's I didn't really need power windows but it has power you know windows and steering and air conditioning and and uh [speaker001:] yeah I guess down there air conditioning's a must isn't it [speaker002:] um-hum oh yeah it it has a stereo and a cassette player and um it he's told me it gets forty two miles to gallon [speaker001:] uh-huh that's incredible that is incredible [speaker002:] um-hum so [speaker001:] uh we we get about our the uh van gets on highways can get about twenty eight the Audi does not have good mileage that's the one drawback it's a powerful car [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um but it does not uh I mean I if I'm on a highway and I can get twenty twenty one miles in per gallon I consider that lucky I'm lucky maybe maybe sometimes I've gotten twenty two it comes out around the eighteen or nineteen local driving and that's a to me is a real drawback I wish I would you know I could settle for twenty eight or [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but uh the um the frills on that car are nice but they're not necessary for me except air conditioning in this area uh in Washington DC area it gets hot and humid [speaker002:] um-hum really um-hum it's really humid [speaker001:] yeah uh so air conditioning is definitely uh definitely a necessity for us through two or three months in the summer um but I um I I don't need uh you know power windows are nice but I don't need them [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] although I must say when you're driving in the east and there are all these toll roads come into a toll road push that button down it's real nice for that window to zip down and zip up instead of having to crank it [speaker002:] um-hum crank yeah um-hum [speaker001:] yeah but or you know if you want to have open windows to be able to open if you're alone in the car just to press buttons and but you know I've lived all these years without them I probably could have lived a little longer [speaker002:] right you don't have to stretch that's true [speaker001:] uh one of the things that we have uh we've liked when we've gotten a new car and this this used car has it is a sun roof [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and those are really nice in in good weather [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] so uh so I guess if we get a new car it definitely would have to have antilock antilock brakes I'd love to get uh an air bag [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and a sun roof and uh just so it'd be a good solid car I guess that's those are my my major criteria everything else is you know a luxury and they make the car more expensive but they often add more things to repair when things go wrong [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so uh but if you were to buy a new car now a brand new car what would you look for [speaker002:] um yeah like you said antilock brakes and air bag and uh I'd I'd really like to have a car that's dependable [speaker001:] um-hum yeah yeah [speaker002:] that that you drive you know like a American made car that's as dependable as Mercedes or something you know that's [speaker001:] isn't that true it's it's funny um uh that you use uh the Audi's German and I have to say it has been pretty dependable [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] yeah sometimes one advantage of an American made car is if you get stuck anywhere most local garages can fix you up [speaker002:] yeah they have parts uh-huh [speaker001:] but once you get if you start once you get something fancy you get stuck somewhere off of the main area you can be really and the parts I know the Audi parts are terribly expensive [speaker002:] right um-hum [speaker001:] I I mean it just I shudder I would not get the Audi again just for that reason but I would love I wish an American an American that you know engineering would make something as solid as a German car you know we certainly have the technology but it's amazing when we bought this Audi I mean everything is more solid in it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh it you don't feel you've got any of the flabby plastic [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I know and I I and I'm willing to give up a little bit in the mileage for a for a solid car I don't think I have to give up as much as I'm giving up [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but uh do you need air conditioning down there [speaker002:] yes we really do because even today it's it's supposed to get up into the nineties so [speaker001:] yeah oh we've had eleven days in a row over ninety [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] they've in fact had to excuse school down here because of that [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] well listen I enjoyed talking with you [speaker002:] it was nice talking to you [speaker001:] okay and enjoy enjoy your car [speaker002:] yeah have a nice summer [speaker001:] thank you you too it's going to be a hot one okay bye-bye [speaker002:] yeah bye

[speaker001:] [TV] Do you all, do you get together with family reunions or, [speaker002:] Yes, we try to. Uh, we have not in some years now. And I think we are going to try to have one this summer. [speaker001:] Oh, that will be fun [speaker002:] My aunt [speaker001:] if you have [speaker002:] is planning it. [speaker001:] not done it in a while. Uh, where is your family from? [speaker002:] Uh, Missouri. [speaker001:] Oh. Is it? [speaker002:] Southwest part of Missouri. [speaker001:] So you are going to have to go there? [speaker002:] That will, will be where it is. Uh, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] if, if she gets it planned. I have been out of town, so I do not know what she has been doing. But, uh, they are all getting very, very old. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] All my aunts and uncles. So we need to see them soon. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, [speaker001:] My family is from Kentucky. Most of them is down there. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I have got an uncle in Louisiana and another sister here in Texas. [speaker002:] Right. Do you all get together often? Or, [speaker001:] We did when I was growing up. It was every summer we got together. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Now, my grandmother just passed away this last year. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] So, you know, [speaker002:] I think as [speaker001:] she was th-, [speaker002:] we get older, it is dif-, more difficult to, uh, when all my aunts and uncles are in their eighties now, so it is, uh, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I have to, uh, I will probably have to take charge and do it one of these, uh, one of these, uh, days. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But, uh, [speaker001:] Well it, [speaker002:] I still have elderly parents alive. So, uh, it takes a lot of effort to either get everybody called or written and settle on a date, you know [speaker001:] It [speaker002:] that, [speaker001:] sure does. [speaker002:] And if they are, [speaker001:] Well, we, in Kentucky it wasn't hard because everybody lives so close together. We just did it word by mou-, you know, by word of mouth. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] You know. And, uh, my uncle in Louisiana, he is the only one that, you know, had to travel. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And now I have got a sister in Germany, and [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] Oh, my gosh. [speaker001:] we are just scattered all over the place. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So it is going to be hard this time. [speaker002:] So the, [speaker001:] But we have got a huge family. [speaker002:] Yeah. And we need to have more and more of them. I ho-, I think, I hope that is not a lost art, that people getting together as they do spread out all over the world. [speaker001:] Yeah. Because it is so fun. [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] I mean, [speaker002:] it is. [speaker001:] we, my mother has got like thirteen brothers and sisters [child talking]. [speaker002:] Oh, I see. [speaker001:] Yeah. She has got a huge family. And every one of them have five or six kids. And most of them, [child talking] you know, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] have got kids [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Sure, that makes a big crowd. [speaker001:] Yeah. It is, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] we just, we had two baseball bleachers full of people, [speaker002:] Is that? [speaker001:] and there are still about eight or six, eight or ten people taking pictures. [speaker002:] Is that right? [speaker001:] Yes. And it was just, the last time we had one it was so fun. [speaker002:] That is wonderful. I hope, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] well, we need to have another one. I hope my aunt is successful as, uh, later. Well, it is probably not going to be done because I have not heard from them. I, it was supposed to be this June, so I do not imagine there is anything coming. This is hardly, almost June. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I, [speaker002:] So, [speaker001:] we have always had ours in a park or something. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But it has away been the same park and there is nothing really special there. Only thing is, it is big, [speaker002:] Yeah, that is, [speaker001:] and it is open. [speaker002:] we have it usually at this, uh, at this one park because there is a pavilion there, in case [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] it rains. And, uh, you have to have it, uh, fairly early in the summer or it is too hot up there. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. In Missouri? [speaker002:] In Missouri, yeah. It is too mu-, it is not, it is just, uh, very humid, and the old people cannot take it anymore. [speaker001:] Well, that was part of the problem with the ones we have. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Now, the kids would sneak off. And we were just being kids, [baby talking] and we found what we thought was just an old water hole. So we was going swimming. And, like I said, we was just big kids. We was like eight and ten years old. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And our parents came and caught us. We had been [LAUGHTER] playing in the [baby talking] sump. It was part of the sewage cleaning system. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Isn't that great? [speaker001:] [Baby talking]. [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] [Baby talking]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [Speaking to child in background] Kyle, don't. [Resumes speaking to B] I have got a four year old. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, that keeps you busy. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [Child talking] Yeah. But if we could have gotten it by a lake or something, I thought that would have been much better. [speaker002:] Yeah. It would have been. Something for the young people [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] to [speaker001:] Well they, [speaker002:] to do. But, [speaker001:] there was, uh, I am sorry, there was, uh, I remember now, there was like, uh, a baby pool, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] just about a foot deep. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yes, I remember my little brother riding a bicycle through it. We were all kids anyway [bumping noise heard in background]. [speaker002:] Every family has all that going on, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I am sure. So, uh, [speaker001:] Oh, but I love it, all the different foods, because that, yeah, [speaker002:] Oh, I do too. That is the best part of it. [speaker001:] That's the, [speaker002:] Everybody [speaker001:] yeah. [speaker002:] bringing something for a potluck picnic and oh, grand, yeah. [speaker001:] So, how long did you say it has been since you all had one? [speaker002:] I do not know. I think it has been, uh, four, three or four years. Or five even, uh, since they have had it, tried to get everybody together. They are just spread out so much, and, and we really need to, uh, no matter ho-, what kind of crowd they get. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I hope, [speaker001:] Well, I have been married almost five, so I guess it has been seven years since we have had one. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And since then we have lost, oh, well, just our grandmother. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That is surprising. [speaker002:] Well, time flies so fast, it may have been that, that long since we have one. It is hard to remember, but I think it has been about four or five years. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So, uh, anyway I, I hope both our families get to have one soon. [speaker001:] Oh, if I can ever get down to Kentucky. It has been like four years since I have been home. [speaker002:] Yeah. It is difficult with little ones. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I know when we had, [speaker001:] That is, [speaker002:] had our, [speaker001:] the reason, that is the reason I don't. I would get on a bus any day by myself, but I won't do it with the babies. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Sure. [speaker001:] Because, uh, I have got, uh, a four month old and a four year old. [speaker002:] Oh, Lord. [speaker001:] So I am just starting. And I just quit too [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, I am telling you. That is, uh, [speaker001:] Uh, I won't be adding any more to the family reunion [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] No, I hope, it, I know it takes a lot of effort right with, with that, with two little ones like that. [speaker001:] Yeah. They are good kids though. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So, uh, I am not too upset. Anyways, I have enjoyed talking to you. [speaker002:] Enjoyed talking to you. [speaker001:] All right. [speaker002:] Good luck in everything. [speaker001:] All right, you too. [speaker002:] Bye-bye. [speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker002:] we're talking about taxes [speaker001:] taxes right you think you think you pay too much [speaker002:] all right well you [speaker001:] is what they said and do you think you'd get what you pay for [speaker002:] that's hard to say you know I think it take a lot for granted you know and it's the the quick answer I think would be that you pay too much taxes you know but but I think if you think about it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um all the highways we have all the uh federal programs we have whether they're good or bad um sure seems like you do get a bang you know it seems like a lot of stuff's going on even though every paycheck a lot of money's coming out um I don't know I don't know it seems like so I used to think that government spent too much and they probably do but you know when you go to your doctor your doctor's private also and uh they're gonna charge you a good buck for whatever they're doing also so well what do you think [speaker001:] right well I really feel in some areas that uh I agree I don't think any of us like paying taxes I think in some areas we could do better in a private sector I think it just I've done some reading on this and some and in some of the areas you know you're lucky to get back a a dime on a dollar on some programs uh but I also know that people to me won't do what they should do to help each other and they wouldn't have so much government if we did and uh we get you know gets forced into it I think socialized medicine's coming which I hate to see but I think because there's so many people without insurance that's what's coming you know it's coming [speaker002:] yeah it's needed [speaker001:] uh-huh so uh but no I don't probably feel like I get back what I pay now you do you pay state income tax in [speaker002:] yeah I I pay actually state city and federal [speaker001:] yeah see here a lot of people think in Texas we're lucky because we don't pay um state income tax but they get us in other ways you know [speaker002:] and yeah well I I just figured it out today I get uh I think my my two week pay is sixteen hundred and eleven dollars or something like that sixteen sixteen something around there and my take home after taxes is about eleven [speaker001:] um yeah [speaker002:] so five hundred dollars every two weeks comes out you know and obviously if you make you know forty thousand dollars a year you're paying ten thousand in dollars a year in taxes and everybody who's in that type of income is paying that [speaker001:] yeah I think that's another problem [speaker002:] you know plus sales tax right [speaker001:] uh yeah well that's where they got us here you know every time they need something they up the quote user's fees or the sin taxes you know on beer and such [speaker002:] sure sure and plus you pay if you buy cigarettes you pay tax on that if you buy beer [speaker001:] yeah so just because we don't have a state income tax they get us proportionately higher in other areas [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] so I don't know [speaker002:] you you don't have a state income tax in Texas [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] that's so yeah that's not so bad but they still have to get the money somewhere to [speaker001:] they get it somewhere and and the problem is with that if you have a state income tax you can take it off you federal [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so we can't take our any of our sales taxes or anything off anymore because of the reform but that's what they up it they up it on gasoline they up it on um say beer and cigarettes uh user's fee driver's license license plates it all just keeps going up and up and up and they tell us it's not really taxes you know you know but [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] it is and uh no I don't know I don't know what the answer is to all this I think uh [speaker002:] same difference what [speaker001:] I don't know [speaker002:] I I think it's a I I don't know I I think I think it's like private like you said privatization is good because you know when the profit uh one good thing that could be said for the profit motive is people aren't going to run a business at a loss I happen to work for a city for the City of New York and uh that's the attitude that uh at least my agency takes [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you know they they when they take the attitude that uh this is a business [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and and if you're not going to run it profitably then you're going to be out of business because they are going to privatize it so in that sense you know at my agency and and it's unique I think for government agencies is revenue producing [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and we make more money than we than we cost so uh [speaker001:] well that's really unusual [speaker002:] so nobody's ever going to question my salary or anybody else on my staff uh especially my unit because my unit is a revenue producing unit uh there are other [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you know things that that may I mean look at that I was talking to my father the other day about the NASA program you know he thought it was kind of ridiculous we spend all this money to send these rocket ships up into space and stuff but yet then again they come up with all these scientific discoveries that may help save us sometime I mean I think it was NASA [speaker001:] right that we've learned a lot [speaker002:] yeah you do learn a lot so you're not you you know you're paying all this money but you're getting something back for it uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know military spending is the same thing whether you agree or you disagree with building all these bombs and stuff which I happen to have a tendency to disagree with uh you know we are buying protection you know we are protecting ourselves from from uh from other countries that we may be afraid of whether it's right [speaker001:] yeah

[speaker001:] yes um how how do you feel about uh way the US has reacted in the Middle East [speaker002:] well I I I was uh it was favorable I I just uh I think the sanctions would have worked uh but it would have taken longer and uh now with all this stuff coming out with Woodward's book and everything uh and then I saw a Nightline program last night about all the uh funding of uh Hussein uh back as early as eighty nineteen eighty six so uh has there been a different turn and then I don't think we projected what was going to happen uh after the war well it got over so fast so uh [speaker001:] um-hum what is the Woodward book you are referring to [speaker002:] well it uh just came out uh I guess yesterday it's called the Commanders and it's uh it says um big story in the paper about it today Bush trying to comment on it that uh Colin Powell was uh was against uh an early uh he he was for sanctions [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and so it seems like there's you know always somebody digging things like that but I'm not for sure we know exactly what what all happened in that situation so uh [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] we we were so uh fast to get over the Vietnam whatever the Vietnam syndrome is that I I'm afraid now we've tied ourselves up there in the Middle East for a long period of time [speaker001:] right that was that's my feeling I was I was very against our involvement so so quickly and um uh [speaker002:] I yeah I just think the I think if we had been very I I mean if he had that good of a correlation through the United Nations then they could have uh they they could have made sanctions work I'm pretty sure uh with that much support you would have just penalized any nation that uh broke the embargo [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum right I think we're very naive as far as that part of the world's concerned [speaker002:] we are we are I think uh you know in in uh we've just misread almost everything in that we always seem to be getting in bed with the wrong fellow for the next next tenure or next thing down the road and uh then we can and we don't seem to read Israel correctly so uh I don't know it should be a mess it's uh not going to be anything we're going to get out of very soon [speaker001:] right right in spite of all the promises [speaker002:] so right that they they can talk a good game but uh being a historian it's uh you know you read all that clear back at least to the turn of the century with all of the mess after first world war [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and we just uh we're still very I I uh you're you're absolutely right too naive um we just if we do find so-called experts to in in any area of the world we don't listen to them so [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] um I don't know be be interesting to keep watching I guess but I'm just afraid it's going it's going to break us [speaker001:] um-hum and I'm I'm not sure we're sensitive to to other cultures [speaker002:] so not very much uh in in our colleges we're trying we're I happen to teach at college with tremendous number of international students and and cultural diversity is just something we really don't understand and it's uh it needs to be uh taught from the earliest grades with our school systems in such disarray I don't know if that it doesn't look terribly hopeful [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum but I'm not sure it's something you can teach I mean [speaker002:] well you can at least uh give give uh uh give them the awareness of the different cultures and uh you know have all sorts of um at at least you know let them know what [speaker001:] awareness maybe [speaker002:] that that other people do things differently than than than maybe in their own neighborhood [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] so and and when when when those people are around if they if you can get them to meet then we're all pretty much alike [speaker001:] um-hum that's true that's true [speaker002:] so uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but it's uh it's something as you know as I said won't go away so uh it'll be a good topic for me in the class for a long time since I teach history so [speaker001:] right and um what about the whole situation with with the refugees the Kurds [speaker002:] well I would just think if Bush was so successful in lining up the correlation to prosecute a war then he should be equally successful in getting that same correlation to push the United Nations to um uh somehow persuade those nations to give the Kurds a a homeland they were promised that nineteen uh nineteen and that [speaker001:] um but what about the Palestinians then [speaker002:] well that's the same thing they uh they haven't been waiting quite as long even though they've been waiting since forty eight uh that [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] that that becomes a different matter simply because you're dealing with Israel and and they seem to be more intractable than ever [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] uh that Shamir can't can't retain his leadership if he if he backs down the slightest bit so uh I just don't see us uh you know I don't think there's anybody of of major stature on the scene of like some of the great statesman of the past [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] or at least we thought they were I'm not for sure that they were they they seem to have gotten us into some of these messes but [speaker001:] um-hum well do you think the US should even be involved I mean as as the world leader in the sense trying to resolve the issues or should we have just stayed out of it [speaker002:] well well I wish we could stay out of it but but the oil's not going to allow us to we absolutely need that oil that's the major thing if we didn't need the oil and and if we didn't have the ties with the Israelis we could probably stay out of it [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um right right [speaker002:] but I'm not for sure that we're we're not destined at least for the foreseeable future as long as we can keep our head our own head above water to be the the world's leader [speaker001:] um-hum um [speaker002:] so I Bush is probably if if he can keep that correlation together especially the French and the British and the Germans and and and be sure that the Japanese can kick in some of their money um they may just have to I don't know what type pressure they can put on uh all the nations there too because now that the war's over the societies have gone back just about to their own [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] uh cold selves and uh I wouldn't have necessarily fought for the Kuwaitis they uh they're nobody likes them in that part of the world uh but it's it's just such a [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] such a volatile uh area I mean there's just no stability there period that's what's [speaker001:] right but but in a sense I don't know that I I that I would say it's good but in I'm sense in a sense I'm glad that Saudi wasn't more changed by by the situation because I mean we really don't [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I mean I don't think it's our role to westernize the whole world so the fact that that Saudi could just sort of pull back and and and remain you know culturally sort of clean is is interesting [speaker002:] absolutely not no yeah I think you're right I it's not our uh role to make everybody like us [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh yeah but it's just uh for those who who may have wanted to travel in that part of the world uh that are up in the age I am it's going eliminate that for awhile I just don't think it's going to be too dangerous to be any place in there [speaker001:] right right well you know I mean I I actually lived in Beirut from sixty eight to seventy to eighty four and so I mean it's it's been dangerous for sometime I'm not sure that it and it's you know changed that much [speaker002:] oh did you yes yeah well uh I I I I haven't been to Beirut but I've heard what a wonderful city that's just totally gone to uh ruin [speaker001:] well see that's it it really hasn't but but exactly it depends whether your talking whether one talks physical or or sort of um cultural culturally I mean it obviously changed a lot [speaker002:] it hasn't well see that's what we get from um-hum [speaker001:] uh because it's more a survival city but but the buildings are still intact it's still beautiful you know there's there was garbage on the corners when I got there and there's garbage when I left but I mean this is just a different uh cultural aspect I mean the trucks don't come daily and and you really don't want the garb age in your house so [speaker002:] oh okay sure yeah [speaker001:] and I mean I traveled extensly extensively in the area too and um so that you know many of the countries Turkey and Syria are still the same as they were before for traveling [speaker002:] right okay okay [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] right I that's one part of the world I've I've been to north Africa a lot but not um I haven't been to Beirut or or Syria or Israel or uh Baghdad I would love to go there [speaker001:] yeah I was never able to go to Baghdad it was I never could get a visa so even before I mean even when things were good in the Middle East Americans weren't really given visas to Baghdad [speaker002:] yeah right [speaker001:] and um but it's it's a very beautiful part very interesting historically of course which was my interest is art history [speaker002:] right sure oh yeah [speaker001:] so um yeah [speaker002:] well I think we've done them a good job today then for this little project they're doing [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] in fact I just talked to the director awhile ago so uh he was checking to see if I was going to stay in because I've been so busy with this presidential search I haven't had a chance to really do any calling myself [speaker001:] uh-huh I see I see well great and um you know have a good business trip [speaker002:] so uh anyway thank you and you continue your fine trip bye-bye [speaker001:] okay thank bye-bye

[speaker001:] okay who do you like [speaker002:] okay what kind do I like I like just about any kind except country and western [speaker001:] yeah that same with me same with me [speaker002:] it it's course country and western even I've gotten a little bit used to because it's not like it used to be [speaker001:] uh-huh like Clint Black he's pretty good and who's the other big guy [speaker002:] well in Oklahoma we say Garth Brooks [speaker001:] Garth Brooks yeah that yeah that's the other guy I was thinking of was Garth Brooks yeah fact I think both of them have performed here and Kenny Rogers he's kind of country western verge you know on the verge of country western [speaker002:] right course Garth Brooks lives about uh you know his his home town is about uh fifteen minutes away [speaker001:] oh wonderful [speaker002:] so he is he's a home boy [speaker001:] well then of course you like him that's great so well I have teenage children and so you know I'm hear the the rock music not the hard rock but the you know Michael Bolton type stuff he he's my personal favorite [speaker002:] uh-huh my son is uh twenty eight so but he he's real unusual in that uh he likes a little bit of every kind he likes jazz [speaker001:] oh that's good [speaker002:] and uh blues and and course the rock [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] I I can't say he's real crazy about elevator music as he calls it [speaker001:] no no what I don't I don't think actually we don't listen to any elevator music at my house but I've got teenagers so [speaker002:] well my teenagers are all gone I can listen to any music I want to [speaker001:] yeah that's good I actually when I'm home alone which isn't too often but uh our public radio station has wonderful classical music it's just very wonderful soothing and you know uh a lot of symphonies and I just I love that that's probably my all time favorite [speaker002:] you know uh I I teach [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and we can have music in the classroom but it you know it can't be the rock or anything like that and I I find that the classical music is very good for the kids too [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] it doesn't disturb them and yet it it's it stimulates them and and [speaker001:] right relax yeah [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] what do you teach what grade [speaker002:] well it's ninth nine through twelve [speaker001:] good for you [speaker002:] and well it's uh business technology [speaker001:] a certain subject good for you [speaker002:] but uh [speaker001:] I was just sitting here while she was trying to find a a another caller uh I was reading my my husband and I are taking a computer class at our junior college [speaker002:] oh boy [speaker001:] yeah it's pretty good it's just a real basic class but we're learning a lot and we have a home computer so it's it's very interesting [speaker002:] uh yeah I'd learn it too uh back to I guess we'd better get back to music though I uh [speaker001:] yeah the subject of music [speaker002:] do you play any instruments [speaker001:] I play I play piano I took lessons for thirteen years and right now my nine year old is taking piano and I just got a whole mess of music I I play the volunteered to play the piano at the children's Christmas program for the whole grade school which is K through six [speaker002:] ooh you took on a good job [speaker001:] five hundred kids I did it last year and and um I sub I just sub at the school I don't wanna work full time so I just sub at the school and that's kind of my volunteer thing so that it's it's really neat and my older daughter plays the saxophone my next son plays the drums and my third son just started baritone this year and my little girl will start French horn next year so [speaker002:] oh well my son played the sax and drums my daughter the piano organ and French horn [speaker001:] so French horn is absolutely wonderful instrument it's just my favorite course that's what I played and so I'm pushing that on my daughter because I wanna play in our city band not the symphony we just the city band once we get the French the French horn and I get a little bit more time right now I'm busy chasing my kids [speaker002:] oh okay yes sounds like you've got a houseful [speaker001:] I do I do I love it but we have a a marvelous band instructor and and he just he's wonderful we have couple of hundred kids in the band our junior high band is just wonderful he lot of and then their concert band and then he has a jazz band that my older daughter was in and my son will be in next year that's I mean they can play college level music in junior high he's that good of an instructor and the kids just love him [speaker002:] oh that's a oh that's wonderful I I have totally totally a tin ear [speaker001:] so it's really good it is wonderful oh do you [speaker002:] and I love music I cannot carry a tune in a basket [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I know what I like and but I you know and I love to listen to it and I love to sing [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and I my kids when I was little and they were little and I was rocking them singing to them they'd say [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] what do you feel about the um present situation in the Mideast [speaker002:] well it looks like it's just about as volatile as it usually is [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] what do you think Mark [speaker001:] yeah I'd agree I think I think there's definitely been some changes um and I think you know the the um end of the Soviet Union will definitely have it's effect on on the situation [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] um you know in that there's there's not you know there you know if you know it's basically since the end of World War II there was always you know that little proxy war going on [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know with um the US funding Israel and you had the um Soviet Union funding the Arab countries [speaker002:] and then we'll see what happens when uh they're not funded quite as much or supplied with arms the same way [speaker001:] yeah um-hum yeah but on the same token you know Israel has lost a lot of their you know value to the US in being you know the foothold of capitalism [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know in in the Mideast [speaker002:] well I we tend to be pretty strong supporters of Israel ourselves you know we support kind of cringe when they make mistakes but yet [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] overall tend to support them but I think one of the most interesting things to me recently was you know during the war uh in uh Kuwait was uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the fact that they did not retaliate for the uh Scud missiles that were [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh launched there that just seemed to me to be a uh a phenomenal uh demonstration of restraint and it must have reflected uh uh some awful good uh diplomacy on the part of the US [speaker001:] um-hum yeah but on the other hand you know if they would've had a hard time retaliating because they you know they they wouldn't have been given access to the friend or foe codes [speaker002:] I see [speaker001:] they basically would've you know had a had a fly they'd had they would've had had to fly through you know two enemies [speaker002:] uh you don't think they've got the codes from the US already [speaker001:] the US had claimed that they would have not given them to them [speaker002:] I see [speaker001:] I mean of course you know public statements can be taken for [speaker002:] that's true they can can't they [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] yeah well what do you what about this situation with uh you know the uh [speaker001:] do you [speaker002:] continual uh harassment by Iraq right now and uh apparently failing to let the in uh arms inspectors have free access [speaker001:] um-hum you know it well to begin with you know I pretty much question our what what the US's motives were in uh in in actually the original involvement [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um I the cynical side of me says that you know who it was more for uh um the the domestic political situation than for anything else [speaker002:] hm yeah okay [speaker001:] you know and that you know and for portraying Bush as a strong president [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] um I mean I really I really think that that my gut feeling is that that that you know he pretty much picked picked a fight with um with um Hussein I mean I'm not not saying at all that Hussein wasn't quite willing to get enter that fight [speaker002:] um right [speaker001:] but I I think I think that that um we chose to have our official feelings hurt [speaker002:] um-hum well do you think that uh we should ignore it and just allowed him to go ahead and uh [speaker001:] we're a lot [speaker002:] you know move on into Kuwait and see what happened [speaker001:] I think I mean I thought I think that um in the past we've allowed lots of things like that to happen [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I I really don't I really don't think that I think I think it was it was there were there were a lot more demographic related interests involved than true foreign policy interests [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] yeah well may have been you know I'm not saying that that's not the case uh [speaker001:] yeah and I mean in in in along those line since [speaker002:] it [speaker001:] since you know it really it really didn't accomplish very much except we're getting getting uh the Iraqis out of Kuwait [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I just don't I just don't I I I don't I I I don't foresee Bush making the decision to invest a lot of manpower and money and you know in in fighting a second battle [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] um you know over over the um over over what what what probably won't accomplish him accomplish much for him politically [speaker002:] no it doesn't look like we're getting ready to do to do much more in there [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] even at this point yeah well what about uh do you have any any views on uh Israel's relation to the US do you think we ought to you know back off on our support of the country or what do you [speaker001:] well I have I have very mixed feelings about Israel um I think that that for a long while we've we've had almost a you know had had this

[speaker001:] the last auto repair I had was I have a nineteen eighty four Nissan truck I had a a tune up done and I had the I had the brakes done on it and the the reason I did that was because I don't have a scope and it has eight spark plugs and it's hard to to get get at them and plus the time I just don't have time anymore um as far as maintenance tasks that I do myself I I usually change the oil and wash the air filter and I I had an occasion to change the had to change the the battery once but the brakes I was really surprised with the brakes I wanted I do have the background I know what needs to be done and I know the the oil needs to should be changed regularly very regularly and all of the bearings and and and the lubrication lubrication system needs to keep be lubricated and so I I stay on top of that but I I wanted my front wheels I wanted the bearings packed and they wanted something like fifteen dollars uh up front or something like that or maybe it was thirty dollars to do it [speaker002:] just to pack the bearings [speaker001:] just to pack the bearings but what I found is that they had a brake job and they changed I had them another thing I I let them do sometimes is that I let them go through and let them tell me what let them do the diagnostics that's free okay and then I can decide whether I want them to do it or whether I can do it see [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and they told me that my my brake pads were gosh you know seventy percent still good you know but still it was cheaper in the long run and uh so I just got the the the brakes done and I thought that was a good deal and and plus [speaker002:] right and they repacked the wheel bearings [speaker001:] and they we repacked the the wheel bearings yeah but I've I've had considerable experience I you might say I'm a mechanic a good back yard mechanic and I you know I took auto shop in high school it's been a while back but I I still have a pretty good feel for it but one thing I didn't know is that when I was messing around with cars and stuff and most of the cars I had I had bigger cars and the brakes go out fairly rapidly on those but what I was surprised at is that on my little Nissan I bought the truck with about sixty thousand I have almost a hundred and ten so I drove on those brake pads for uh you know forty five thousand miles and there was hardly any wear to them so those small little trucks and cars like that they they just the longevity of the brake pads is really good [speaker002:] you know they've gotten to the point that where they don't weigh very much and the the surface material on the pads is so good [speaker001:] exactly exactly so I you know but I I just did it anyway I like to stay I like to stay up on it you know like to stay kind of stay up on it then if you go in like just about any point any you know point in time and pull my dip stick and pull it out and look at the oil the oil is you might say a a light golden brown you know it's not dirty I I I keep it that way because that's that is the key to the longevity so [speaker002:] right well [speaker001:] so so how [speaker002:] it it sounds like you've had um some good experiences with that uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and my experiences have been kind of contrary to that [speaker001:] uh oh [speaker002:] um I I get a little more involved in the maintenance of my car and uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and in fact I have an eighty seven mustang with a 302 in it that I've uh beefed up a little bit [speaker001:] um-hum okay [speaker002:] and one of the things that I did was to change the pulley system on it to use under drive pulleys so that the engine doesn't have to turn the accessories and can use more of the power to the rear wheels um the only catch was the first set of under drive pulleys that I put on it were [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um not even cast aluminum they were just pressed aluminum [speaker001:] you're talking about the vibration dampener [speaker002:] well there's three there's three pulleys that you change you change the crank pulley and the alternator pulley [speaker001:] that's the vibration dampener yeah [speaker002:] and uh the water pump pulley [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] so when I changed those over I put on these these pressed aluminum things [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and uh probably about four months ago the water pump decided to go out [speaker001:] uh oh [speaker002:] so in the process of seizing the belt spun on the pulley and wore through the water pump pulley almost all the way [speaker001:] hm uh oh [speaker002:] but not far enough to notice [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] so I was on my way to work one day and uh the water pump pulley split laterally in half so there was a half a water pump pulley still attached to the water pump and the other half was kind of dangling off the end of the crank and uh so I [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] Well, as far as I'm concerned and it's probably apt that your call's at this time because we just got through watching, uh, REASONABLE DOUBTS. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Which had a, you know, capital case in it. And, uh, m-, I personally have, uh, my own feelings about, uh, capital punishment is I think it should be mandatory upon a third conviction felony. [speaker002:] I do, too. [speaker001:] Mandatory, I mean, summary execution, on the steps, that day. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, well, I think, you know, I'm, I'm in that same, I think if it's, uh, if it's a con-, if it's a convicted, uh, felon on parole [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, and he goes out and, and commits another crime or kills somebody, I, you know, I, I feel the same way, I don't think, I think that person is, is beyond, uh, rehabilitation and, and he should be taken out [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Well, I, I also firmly believe that no one is beyond reclamation. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But, I do know that some people, almost all people usually die before that point. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] They just get too old. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, as far as capital punishment, on, on it's own merits, I have the trouble with the way it's applied. I think it should be applied, d-, on a little bit more fair manner. Uh, and I've, I've said this very often and I believe it to be the, a very true axiom, so I would be rather be white, rich and guilty than black and innocent. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Because if you're [cough], if you're black and you kill a white guy, you're going to fry. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Kill you. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] They will kill you. And if you're black and you kill a black guy, you know, it's, you know, two hundred hours of community service. [speaker002:] Yeah, you don't hear, you don't hear too much about, of those cases. [speaker001:] Well, it's a social [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] disease that we have called one upsmanship, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] We're the majority, so we can do whatever the hell we want to do. [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] And you're the minority and you're stuck with it. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] But, uh, you know, we had this in the Vietnam war, you know, we had [lipsmack], you know, population of blacks among military people in Vietnam was about eighty percent. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] But the [child laughing] population of blacks in the military was about twenty-two percent. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] The handwriting's on the wall there, isn't it? [speaker002:] Yep, it sure is. [speaker001:] You know, but that's another issue altogether. [speaker002:] Yeah it's, [speaker001:] As far as capital punishment, I think that, uh, ten years on death row is cruel and unusual punishment. I think the guy should have ninety days and if he can't produce evidence [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] not argument, but evidence, [speaker002:] See, the only thing I don't, you know, I don't understand, I guess I, I don't understand our judicial system, uh, as it is right now because I, you know, if somebody has been convicted and has been sentenced to be put to death, how is it that they can appeal and appeal and appeal and get stays of ex-, execution? I mean, how, you know, is [speaker001:] Well, [speaker002:] there, [speaker001:] Th-, that goes back to when, uh, America was a, a colony of England. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] In England, you went to court, you were assumed guilty until proven innocent and once they found you guilty, you know, judge said, he's guilty, kill him. Well, th-, there were some people that, uh, that had a problem with that. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Because they found out later on that, jeez, you know, a guy will lie rather than get killed. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And he'll say, you know, hey, that guy did it, you know, not me. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, uh, or he'll have somebody lie for him. You know, people lie, it's a [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] strange thing, but they do that, and to prevent that kind of misuse of power, they wrote into the Constitution a protection [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] against judicial mishap. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] And [child yelling] the judicial mishap in this event would be, hey, you got the wrong guy. Look at that guy, uh, at E Systems. [speaker002:] Yep. [speaker001:] They were g-, they convicted him of a robbery that he could not physically have been able to commit. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] He was too far away when it happened. He had witnesses that were, you know, they weren't dope dealers, they weren't drug fiends, they were employees of a, an establishment that had a very high level of security sense, too. And these were really responsible people. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] You know, and they convicted this guy because somebody says, well, he looks like the right guy. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] They all look the same to me, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Big lips, flat nose, yep, that was him. [speaker002:] Yep. What do you think about, uh, uh, convicted, uh,

[speaker001:] what are some of the TV shows that you watch [speaker002:] um Major Dad the Monday night comedies on CBS like Major Dad Murphy Brown is one of my favorites for huh for some reason she reminds me a lot of myself it's just the writing I think the writing on that's real good [speaker001:] yes I love those yes she is great I just love her uh-huh it is [speaker002:] one I miss is uh Doctor Doctor [speaker001:] did you watch that one [speaker002:] I use we used to when it was on because I I thoroughly enjoyed it [speaker001:] uh-huh I didn't did you I guess I never really watched that one I guess by eight o'clock I'm watching football [speaker002:] uh yeah I understand that I do understand that no [speaker001:] with my husband so yeah that's a big one in our house is Monday night football [speaker002:] uh uh yeah well he used to be before we got married but my husband's not a real big football person so my well he is if it's Dallas and if they're on TV but if it's not then we'll watch anything else because he really likes Major Dad and and Murphy Brown and all those too [speaker001:] oh he isn't right um-hum well that's nice uh-huh and and uh what's the other one oh with the four women Designing Women yes I like that one [speaker002:] oh uh Designing Women yes with the Sugarbakers I think that's one reason I named my daughter Julia well that well and my great grandmother's name is Julia so we named her that too um [speaker001:] yes oh really oh that's great uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] do you have kids oh okay I was going to say because we also have to watch Dinosaurs on channel eight because oh not the mama not the mama [speaker001:] um no we don't believe me we do too we do too yes I love that show it's so cute [speaker002:] well when my two year old starts saying that it's like okay we we know what he's been watching too for too long I just I [speaker001:] oh no yes no we watch that all the time we do it's a good show I like it and then we watch the Thursday night Cosby and uh um Cheers we watch all the time and [speaker002:] oh I like those I that's fun but that's normally on Thursday nights we just kind of turn the TV off because neither one of us really we usually either watch CBS on Monday nights and then the rest of the times it's ABC it's like oh well we don't watch anything else fine oh [speaker001:] uh-huh okay uh-huh uh-huh yeah Thursday night's a big one in our house but um [speaker002:] uh we used to when NBC had no that was on Tuesday night um Matlock because I got my mom got me started watching that show just because she liked Andy Griffith so that was fun [speaker001:] okay uh-huh oh yeah my husband's a big like mystery watcher like the the late night Hunter and all those he really enjoys those [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh I like yeah I used to like it when Columbo and and all those were on and and Rockford Files but it's like gosh that seems like a long time ago [speaker001:] uh-huh well my husband really likes those yeah they are and then we're on we're on a big one with uh Home Front [speaker002:] they're fun they're fun yes yes I like that well no I guess you probably don't get to see Northern Exposure then if he's watching football on Monday nights [speaker001:] he that's a real good show sometimes I do if I'm at my sister's house she has two TV's [speaker002:] that's it's it's a real strange one it's almost well it's like Twin Peaks but funny [speaker001:] it is it's it's right [speaker002:] and we did we used to like to watch Twin Peaks for the first season it was like oh this is really neat [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and then it got weird [speaker001:] yeah I and it was a show I never started watching until like one night I decided well they always say this is so weird let's let's watch it and see if we can get the hang of this [speaker002:] like real strange uh-huh [speaker001:] huh-uh I couldn't understand by the by the end of it I was just going now what did I just watch for the last hour [speaker002:] this this no no who did what yeah because it's you really have to be dedicated we would like tape it and send the kids to bed say okay now we can watch this because you have to watch every scene to kind of figure out what it's doing and it [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah because I was just like huh [speaker002:] even then it's like huh [speaker001:] what and then we got like the Time magazine because we used to order that and his face was on the front half distorted and half regular [speaker002:] uh-huh uh [speaker001:] and it kind of talked about Twin Peaks and I still just didn't understand what he was talking about he was something else I just [speaker002:] it was a really really strange show but it's like well I'm sorry it's gone but I really didn't got towards the end we didn't watch it at all anyway [speaker001:] yeah I think it got too strange because you couldn't pick up on it if you just yeah yeah I like the sitcoms [speaker002:] yeah give give me comedies I'll I'll watch those I like those I'm yeah I'm a I'm a comedy kind of person [speaker001:] um-hum I really do like just those half an hour sitcoms and that maybe a couple [speaker002:] yeah well because yeah because you can like turn it off you only have to watch half hour at a time [speaker001:] yeah and it's not right and it's always not um week after week and you have to watch every week and you can pick up something the next week and [speaker002:] uh-huh uh well unless it's like you have kids and you have to watch Full House and you have to watch Dinosaurs and you have to watch Urkel on Friday nights and you you know [speaker001:] right so you know my husband's a kid we have to watch Urkel yeah [speaker002:] I understand that did you did you happen to see it last night [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] that was cute Pablo Pablo [speaker001:] where he where Carl killed his bug uh yes oh yes [speaker002:] I was like it's just a stupid bug [speaker001:] I know it it was it was something that that a four what was it six hundred dollar bug or four hundred dollar bug [speaker002:] yeah but I know I think it was four hundred and eighty something dollars s o they went to Citizens Court ooh ah [speaker001:] uh-huh but I did see Urkel regular he was on some show and he is he's a good looking kid he is a great kid yes [speaker002:] did you really huh without the glasses and the suspenders and [speaker001:] um-hum he is dressed normal and acted normal he doesn't have that high voice and [speaker002:] but have you seen the commercial for the Urkel doll [speaker001:] yeah I he showed the Urkel doll on that but I haven't seen the commercial for it [speaker002:] it dances I was like oh boy it dances it talks it sounds like Urkel oh no it even snorts [speaker001:] um-hum it's yes it does [speaker002:] oh well [speaker001:] he took that on the show and they played that and I was like oh my gosh [speaker002:] it these people like they really have lives but it's just kind of strange [speaker001:] um-hum but he's kind of what made that show because I heard it was gonna go [speaker002:] oh yeah