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you know, I am all about the mentoring. And I mentor my students. I mentor, you know, basically anybody that needs somebody to reflect off of if nothing else. Yes, that's wonderful. And you can be found in the APC Facebook group. I can. Yeah, so you're in there. Well, Bonnie, let's step back into your career just for a minute. So right now, you're, you have many consulting jobs, you educate, you mentor. Tell us about some of the interesting positions that you've held in the revenue cycle over the years. Probably the greatest one I had was I got to work at Rush Hospital in Chicago where they were doing all kinds of experimental procedures. And so I got to work learning about those experimental procedures. And they often did videos so the coders could see what they were doing. And that was amazing. I have, as I said, coded all over the country because before I got my job at the college, I did coding and auditing all over the country from little towns to big towns. I even went to Roswell, New Mexico. And that was a fun one. But it's, it's just been a learning experience each step of the way. Because when you go into a new area, whether it's of the country or of the skill, you have to be open to learning and not have, well, I know this rule, therefore, I, you know, because they do it differently in different parts of the country. And for different payers, we're supposed to stick with the guidelines, but real world, if the payer won't accept the guidelines and the payer says, nope, you're going to use this code regardless

you go with the pair. Be adaptable, huh? Yes. Wow. Now, you've mentioned you've worked all, you've worked all over. Have you primarily worked remote through your career or a variety of both? I did, I did the bag drag for many years, long before remote came along. And now I do remote and I enjoy it. But again, you have to be flexible because when you're working remote, you don't always have somebody to ask, hey, this computer isn't working right or this encoder isn't working right. So you have to learn how to kind of find your way through things on your own. And if you're timid, that doesn't work with all. Yeah, you've got to be willing to just get in it and figure things out sometimes? Absolutely. From the technical side to coding. Yes. And that could be challenging. But you know, I'm a big believer in having two monitors and big monitors so you could see things well and all the resources that you can get your hands on. You certainly have a lot of resources around you there. Yes. Oh, that's great. Well, Bonnie, what, at this point in your career, what do you, do you hope to accomplish anything different or try something new or are you content with what you've done and where you are right now? Well, I am seriously thinking of becoming a tumor registrar and getting my doctorate. Wow. Yay, wow. You that's, I mean, you love to learn. I do. And the day you stop learning is the day you should put away your code books. That's right. You know, there are so many changes that happen in the revenue cycle year after year. You know, we just

we just, we're just moving into the 2022 code sets for I-10. So that's a yearly change and sometimes they are greater, the changes are greater than other years. Yes. And even bigger changes like I-9 to I-10. Yes. Yes. And even bigger changes like I 9 to I 10. Yes, that was a big one. So on. Yeah. What are some memorable changes in the revenue cycle through your career that really shook up the industry and your work? The, well, definitely the change for my nine to I-chin because when I was at that coding company, we hired a new coder and we put her on mammograms, which was a very straightforward thing. And she started getting all these denials. And we're thinking, how could this be? So we went in and audited her and it goes back to reading again. She was coding cystic fibrosis for fibrocystic breast disease. So you don't get a mammogram for cystic fibrosis. But those people who haven't played with I know I don't remember that change very well. Other than that, I see the the Max coming in, the RAC auditors, the more and more emphasis on being aware that, you know, there are consequences to what you do. You know, if you make a coding error, they'll forgive you. If you continue the error, they'll say, hey, you need some education. But if you continue the error, then they're going to measure you for a jumpsuit. Oh, boy. Well, that's interesting to hear all of these different changes and the impacts that they've had. It really is. And, you know, it's frustrating sometimes. For instance, my hospital that I do, most of my work for

they had a CPT code that described a procedure right down to the nth degree. But the blues said, no, we want this code over here. And that code kind of sort of did it, but it was very generic. And trying to make my coding supervisor understand that, yeah, sometimes, even though it says we're supposed to be as specific as we can, if the payer isn't going to pay it, and they say they'll only accept this, you got two choices. Don't get paid or code their way. Yeah, that's tough. That's got to be challenging. It is because she had never encountered that before. And she says, but we don't want to go to jail. I said, you're not going to go to jail. You don't do that for the other pairs. You do it just for the blues. Yeah, you have to be flexible and understand the situation between payers. Yes. And they, you know, for the most part, they try kind of follow Medicare, but occasionally they'll go off on a wild hair like in this particular case. You know, so, and I try to explain to them that the payers don't use coders. The payers use clerks, and they don't understand necessarily what we're doing. They have a list that says, if you charge this got to pay that you've got to have this. Bonnie, I'm curious. What tell us a little bit about the personal side of Bonnie who what kind of things do you do in your free time? How do you escape medical coding? Or is it consuming time? Well, it does take a lot of me, but I like to read. I like to crochet, play some word games on the computer. But, uh, you know, as unfortunately because COVID

we've had to learn to entertain ourselves a lot more. Yes, yes. But we we like to go out to eat when it's safe and and we like seeing friends. We do church activities and things like that. Okay. And how was, what was it like starting this career as a mother? I mean, you mentioned that you got into this to help help the family just in case if something had happened. But was that difficult being a full-time coder and a full-time mom? Absolutely, because they were old enough to be left without a sitter, but they weren't old enough really to be left without a sitter. And so frequently my Brian had to come back to, hey mom, he's not doing this or something like that. And, you know, that is a challenge for moms and dads. You know, I'm not going to be sexist here, you know, because there's a lot of single dads out there. There are. And they've got their challenges too if they've got kids around that weekend or that that full-time, they've got to make those choices that that the mom does. But I remember as I would wanted to get my other coding credentials, that sometimes I would take my study guides to Little League games and wherever you could get some time. Absolutely. Okay. All right. Well, you did it. You made it happen. You've had a wonderful career. I have. And it's still going. Who knows? You may be going towards your doctorate. And who knows where what path you'll go down next? Absolutely. All right. Well, Bonnie, any final comments for members watching or perspective coders? Anybody

any final dots that you'd like to share about about your career? Believe in yourself, don't let anybody tell you you can't. Because I've had people tell me I can't for years and I do. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much Bonnie for sharing your story today. And so we, I think this will be valuable and inspirational to experience coders who are watching and these new, new coders who are trying to pass the exam. All right. Thank you so much, Bonnie. And you just hang tight for just a minute. And everybody who's watching, just a reminder that you may be watching this on YouTube. You can also listen on our podcast whether it be Apple podcast or Google podcast or Stitcher whatever app you use search for the AAPC podcast and you can listen to Bonnie while you are working on errands around the house, or if you're listening to this on one of our podcast, you can see Bonnie tell her story on our YouTube channel. So thank you so much, and Bonnie thank you again and you have a wonderful day. Thank you.

Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC where we explore and learn about the journeys of AAPC members today. I am with Erica Maxie. Erica, how are you? I'm well, Alex. How are you? I am super. Thank you so much. And Erica, Erica, how are you? I am super. Thank you so much. And Erica, you responded to my call for people to share their stories. And I just want to share a little bit of what you wrote. You stated, my coding career started over 20 years ago, and you took a hiatus to homeschool through high school. It was very daunting to bring myself up to speed with all the health care industry changes. However, I pressed on knowing and knew using the AAPC, the online AAPC course practice exams and practic code would be my best chance at passing the CPC exam. Gratefully, I passed the first time and got a coding job in neurosurgery within four months. So with that kind of laying our foundation, Erica, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you from? How did you even stumble on medical coding in the first place? Yes. So I'm originally from Chicago but I'm currently living in Atlanta. I have been here about 30 years so very much happy to be living in the great city of Atlanta. So my career in coding started so many years ago. It started about close to 30 years ago, believe it or not. Right out of college, my first job, I was in an allied health, public health major and my first job out of college was teaching at Georgia Medical Institute and I taught coding. It was a part at that point, you know, IDC 9

IDC 9, it was one of my responsibilities to teach everything that went on in the medical front office. So that was my first introduction to coding. So you got this teaching job and you weren't a subject matter expert at the time. Is that correct? Okay. All right. So what was that? Yeah, so you see all these codes and see this industry. I know for me, it was eye opening to when I stepped my foot in. What was that like when you first saw codes and to learn that you would be teaching this curriculum? It was a bit overwhelming at first, you know, just one, I had a vague familiarity, but teaching it really allowed me the opportunity to dig in a little deeper, to start to gain the skill set to learn about the procedure codes and the diagnosis code. So at that time, after being introduced, I was laid off of that job and actually started doing the work that I was teaching. So that is when I actually started the application of what I had learned. Wow, wow. So you liked you like teaching it, obviously. I did. Okay. And you, at this point, you know about the industry, you know the codes and did you know about AAPC? Was that a part of what you taught at the time? No, at that time because it was so long ago, certifications were not required. Again, this was I. C. Nine. It was so many years ago. And so I was a part of that, what we now know is a revenue cycle, right? Where everyone in the front office, we had a part in that from, you know, check in to check out to claim denials, you know

you know, after submitting a claim for reimbursement. So after that being in the medical office, I took the hiatus to home school, my two children, and then after they graduated high school, that was quite a long hiatus. I did want to return back to the career that I really enjoyed. And I started researching and saw the information for AAPC and knew that through reading and researching that I said, you know, my best bet because it was so much to learn. I knew going through the AAPC program, the study curriculum, I did the online distance learning and a self-paced course and brought the and bought the whole package with the practice test and everything. And Alex, I tell you after that I felt well prepared and sat for the exam in December of 2018. I did thankfully pass the first time. Again, I felt very prepared. And then I did get my first job. I was, I was actually working in my coding career in neurosurgery by May. So, yeah. Wow. What led to your success with finding a job so quickly? Yeah, well, I think it's not necessarily one thing, but a combination of things. One, I'm going to say above all, determination. You know, I really wanted to work in the field and with that determination came a lot of applications, came working with practical code and seeking out as many resources that I could, referrals, making connections, you know, I started going to AAPC meetings. In fact, the job that I had with one health care system is where I became a member initially with AAPC. And going to the meetings, even though I did not have a job at that time

I started going to the meetings actually Alex before I took the test. Well, smart. Yeah. So just in anticipation, you know, because that I felt was very important to be amiss those that were already certified and perhaps could give me some guidance. So with that and a lot of applications and some help from, honestly, my father who is a retired administrator, he was, he looked at so many resumes and did so much hiring in his professional career that he assisted me with my resume because of course I had to be reintroduced to the world of work in health care and I believe all those components helped me a great deal. I'm curious, Erica. When you were working full-time as a mom, which is a 24-hour job, you rarely get a day off. Yeah. Did you always know that you would return back to medical coding? I believe it was always in my mind to return back. Health care, the business of health care is something I've always enjoyed. And I would say that the skill set that we, that I was teaching in home school honestly helped my brain to continue to be very open to learning. You know, I have a love of learning and I know, I know, Alex, that that helped me a great deal going back into the industry. Because as you know, the exam is for CPC is not an easy exam And so I believe that that helped me all those years as well. Okay. So you brought this up the difficulty of the AAPC, CPC exam. Yeah. And so you took AAPC courses. Yeah

you took our course. That obviously helped you prepare. Did you what other tools? Did you use our practice exams? I used all three. I think there were three of them. I used the three exams. And I took it as a, you know it as a real, you know, for time, not just for accuracy. I also went to a review class, one of those all-day review classes. And really that self-paced learning from the online distance was something that was a very very good fit for me. You know there were several options classroom learning etc. Other other resources but knowing there's a stat out by AAPC as far as the pass rate when you take an exam, when you learn through AAPC materials, course materials, and just looking at that research and looking at the time that I had and my goal to take the test, It was an easy decision for me. That decision was easy. But then of course, the process of studying and taking the test itself. I did feel prepared, although of course it was a very challenging exam. I think people who are watching should know, I just met Erica, and I did not ask her or prompt her to say any of this. I mean, this is all our real experience. But we say this a lot that we really do see more or our higher pass rates from those who take our course. I mean, it's our curriculum writers who write the exam, so they all kind of just fit together. So if you're successful with the curriculum practice exams and so on, you should find success with the real exam. I agree. And one of the reasons

reasons if I may add Alex is because the way that is written one of the things that we're learning is the style in which an exam is written and what answers are really being asked for right so again I I have highly recommended the AAPC online distance learning course. I again felt, and if I had to do it all over again, knowing all that I know now, I would do it exactly the same way. Now, knowing what you know now and looking back, what advice would you give for someone who is preparing for the exam? Let's say you meet someone and they're taking the exam in three or four weeks or maybe even longer or less time, but do you have any advice that maybe you wish you had known heading into your exam? Sure. Well, one, we tend to get, and I'm also, you know, connected to the social media support for APC. And I see other comments and, you know, some of the anxiety that one may feel before taking such a big exam. One thing is to the months leading up to it, be consistent, right? And really that's self-motivation to be consistent because one is not going to necessarily cram for this exam. Okay. And, and I would say right about about and if I may make an analogy because I've also run it and I do this analogy with a full marathon. You know I've run a marathon before and I say it's my metaphor for life that you're not going to just all of a sudden wake up and run 26.2 miles. It is a process and one of the things that we learn in physical exertion is you also need to rest. And when you're getting ready to get when you're preparing for a big run like that

you're not going to run a lot a few days before. Your body is going to rest. The same thing goes for the mind, where if you know that you're a few weeks out, have a game plan. First of all, no. Practice the exam so your speed and accuracy is on point. Right. Some may know it, but the time may not be there. We need the time, the speed and the accuracy. But in the few days and even the week before, take some rest time to let all that good knowledge sink in. Because we can over prepare and end up exhausting our brain before the actual exam. So there's a such thing as being well rested and in eating well and all that good stuff because that plays a huge part, believe and for me that was part of the preparation. Wow that's that's great advice. Thank you for sharing that. Now, um, with that, yeah, here you are successfully finding employment shortly after receiving your certification. Would you just share with me your desire going forward? Do you hope are you are you seeking additional certifications? Do you have you additional certifications? I am in the process of my my goal is for the instructor, the CPCI, yeah, because I love teaching still. I'm in the specialty of neurosurgery and very interesting and it just lets you know that your mind is always in a position to grow because that was not my best subset in my test. The exam and I tell you from it

it was kind of ironic that I ended up working my first job since my hiatus from coding to be to reenter the health care industry in neurosurgery. But I would say that I can go in so many different directions. What advice do you think would be most helpful for your viewers? Well, I think what what leads you, or what will lead you down that next path? So, training, you are, you are obviously a good communicator. And I guess you have a knack or desire to teach. Yes, yes. Right now I've been able because, well, one, let me say this when I first started my new position in coding and neural surgery, I did express my interest in also teaching. And I have to say very gratefully that my department has allowed me to do some trainings. You know, coding requires ongoing education, right? We know they're quarterly updates. Neuro surgery lends itself to a lot of learning. And so my goal is to teach as I am already been offered opportunities to do some teaching. I also have a background in health and fitness, and I'm always striving to bridge that gap between the sickness and the health care, the wellness and health care. I think that that is a very interesting field to bridge. But overall, Alex, it's always about the education for me. Now, was your first job that you received? Was that in that specialty in neurosurgery? It was not. I've worked in, I've worked in, iny and OBGYN. Never neurosurgery until now, which is I've been in my new position about three years now. Okay, all right. Well, that's most of the time. Wow. Okay. And are you, go ahead. Oh

excuse me. Yes. Since I, this has been so I passed my exam December of 2018, right. I got this job. I was hired on in May of 20, 20, of 2018. Excuse me. In May the following year 2019. And so it has just been really an enjoyable experience. I enjoy learning about neural surgery and the complexity of it I enjoy. And there's been a lot of opportunities to learn. So with that, because I don't want to start, I could go on and on and I want to make sure I keep it short. But there have been so many educational opportunities, two of which, one is a neurosurgery conference that I've attended virtually. And then just a couple of weekends ago, there was a cardio stroke symposium that I also attended virtually. And also for AAPC and the continuing education, one thing that I've also found very, very helpful is the is where you can look at all of the webinars, right? If you, and then you can decide, because one of the things is that although I want to teach, I want to continue a broad aspect of learning and coding. And with the webinars that AAPC offers, you can learn about everything, right? And so that's my intention, is to continue growing, to continue broadening the specialties, and eventually go more into the teaching area of coding. Awesome. Now, Erica

Erica, I'm going to jump back to your student life. Yeah. And you use the word consistency and being consistent with studying. What kind of consistency or what kind of schedule did you create for yourself to be consistent? Because you're a mother and you were doing this at home. How did you create an environment to succeed? One, I surround myself around my family, my husband and children, who very supportive because who you live with and who you are most around, I think she should be around people who support your goal because you are not going to be able to do everything in your social life and you're going to have to give up some things right you're going to have to create the pockets for study and and life will continue to go on so we're going to have to be disciplined right in our studies. One of the things that I so appreciated because I will be straight up on us with you, it was so daunting, just learning so many things after such a long hiatus. And I was really frustrated at first, you know, I was like, am I going to get this? Because a lot of the practice test, and before the practice test, just the online course itself, I was struggling, honestly. I was struggling. I was not, I was making errors and I was like, wow, am I going to get this? But APC, one of the things that I found very valuable, invaluable I should say, is you can submit an email. You're given a coach, if you will, someone, a contact. And as long as you can pose the questions in an email format, you would get a reply within 24 hours. Now that may not sound like much

but it was very invaluable because some, what I, what helped me, believe it or not, was not necessarily what I got right, but what I learned in doing it incorrectly and getting the answer wrong. Right? There's a saying that a hundred mistakes is an education if you learn from each one, and it takes diligence to learn from your mistakes instead of saying, I didn't do as well on this right on this chapter but to have the courage and the patience in the discipline to say why did I get this wrong and then to even have a resource to write an email and say here's my question because what's one of the things that I'm amazed at in today's industry is coders is the power of the provider query. Right we always hear query your provider, query your provider. Where there's a lot of communication and cognitive understanding that one needs to query our provider. And I can say that I am feel much, I felt very equipped in querying our neural surgeons, which could be, you know, actually perhaps a little intimidating for someone who is new to neuralgery. However, through those months of preparation for the exam and me being in close contact with my contact who was excellent with her responses, I was also training a skill set in communication. And that's something definitely not to take for granted because in today's world of coding, we work very closely with our physicians and making sure that we are accurate in our coding, in our coding selections. Okay, Erica

Erica, moving forward. We've recently had the free AAPC promotion and there were many options in that. And were there any specialty credentials that maybe jumped out at you that maybe you wanted to jump into? There are several that I'm looking at other than the CPCI. I've been I've looked at the CRC, you know, through the risk adjustment. One of the things that I also am considering because I also code for interventional and intervascular with our neurosurgeons. So, but right now I am still gaining a lot of experience in my said specialty of neural surgery. I'm also been working with mentors as far as what is the next step to take. What would be a very good step to take? Are you a part of the AAPC mentorship program or these are just your personal mentors? Yeah, my work mentors. Yes. Yes. All right. Okay. All right. Well, how have they helped you? How and how important is that for you to have mentors to help guide you? It is so invaluable because they can see things that we may not be able to see yet, you know

you know, coding the industry not only of what's going on right now but where is the industry going? And then what are our unique skill sets? What are we generally interested in? Those are the things that mentorship has provided for me in my career. I still have a good long career although I took my hiatus so I think that's why for me it's so important to get a broader aspect and I know many people have perhaps why I know I want these extra specializations right away. My goal has been to take the first five years back in the industry and gain as much experience. So I really tend to take advantage of, even if it doesn't have CEUs, quite frankly, to gain as much education as I can in the first five years in this position. That's a common theme that we hear, Erica, is that a medical coder and those who work in the revenue cycle, they are constant learners. Things are always changing and you need to adapt and learn for those changes. Absolutely. Okay, now Erica, are you remote or do you work in the office? I am remote. I do go in the office periodically, maybe for a meeting, but for the most part, remote. And I know you see this in the AAPC Facebook group where there are a lot of many who are seeking information about the career, the industry, and they are, they have an appeal to the possibility of working remote. What is that like? Was that more challenging than you thought? Or were you able to navigate that transition smoothly? Well, one, I believe, because other people have asked me about going in the coding industry and the one thing that I say

Alex is I wouldn't recommend going into coding just to work remotely. Because, and the other thing is it doesn't come to you right away. That's an opportunity that's not afforded to all, particularly if one is a new coder. I certainly did not go remote immediately. There's a certain trust that is needed to be remote. As far as a skill set, I also would say, no, if it's for you because some people really prefer to work in an office around people. They feel most motivated that way. In my case, I, because I homeschooled, you know, working from home was, was a natural transition for me. And it does require, I think, again, the love of learning, that discipline, to be productive, you know, in that environment. And it's not for everyone, but because I, because of my skill set, I have done well remote. Okay, great. And I'd imagine that also entails some coordination with your family. Yes. And that, that's something unique that I have not heard in my I am AAPC interviews, Erica, is just that your job, because your remote requires coordinating with family, but also your education as a AAPC student required that same thing and that sacrifice and you couldn't attend everything that maybe the rest of the family did, but they were on your side and and they were part of the team really is a process, a journey for all of you. Yes, we sat down and had a conversation because for example having when I cold even to this day I need complete silence for the most part you know so all the the preparing for the exam required a certain amount of quiet in the house

you know, be it if the family was here, how would I gain that quiet focus? Still now with the pandemic, my husband works remotely as well. We have dealt with, you know, I have two college-age young adults and we've had to work that out when they were home during during that time last year. And so again, it, I believe it's a skill set worth learning and talking with your family and everyone being on the same page. I think that that's just a great message. If you are watching this and considering studying and preparing for the AAPC exam, make sure you have everybody on board and because there is sacrifice involved. There certainly is and this is something that requires you know full attention. Coding is something that's highly specified and that was one of the things that I was training my brain during the study months was was focus, you know, how to have a high degree of attention to detail. And so yeah, and I'm glad because as we age, we want to challenge our brain, right? It's kind of like, you know, it's exercise for the brain. That's what I look at coding. Coding has so many benefits for the payer, the patient, the physician, and even for the person, because it really is, it's great learning. I highly enjoy it. Erica, here's the big question. Was all that sacrifice and that the adversity? Was it all worth it? It absolutely was worth it. I'm so grateful for AAPC, really. Again, you know

you know, we're just meeting so you know I'm just sharing this truly for my heart which is why I wanted to respond to you. You know we all want to look for that person to help inspire us and motivate us and that makes us feel like we can do it and I wanted to share more than anything that for me, if I can do it, taking that long hiatus and all these medical terms and the revenue cycle that I had to, I was really like brand new, you know, and in AAPC's curriculum, I felt very much prepared me for not only the exam, but for my reentry into health care. And I'm very thankful for that. Awesome, what a great story, Erica. Thank you so much for sharing. Any final words for a prospective student who's considering a career as a medical coder? Any words for them? That to believe in yourself, to never stop learning, to embrace the idea of loving your learning, to embrace the idea of loving your learning, to truly love learning, and to seek out opportunities to think outside the box. One of the things that I have created at my department, I'm very grateful that they have an open mindset, is I created what's called power hour. So with our meetings, it's an educational opportunity for us as coders to talk about all the different things that we need to constantly stay abreast of. And so I would say create, be a creator. And never get comfortable because coding has so many different opportunities that's ever evolving each day. Wonderful. Erica

thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for sharing your story. And we hope to catch up with you down the road and see where your journey takes you next. I would love that. Thanks for the opportunity, Alex. You're welcome. And to all those watching, you may be watching on YouTube or another social media channel. We are also on your favorite podcast streaming service. You can find us on Apple podcast. You can find us on Google Podcasts. Stitcher, whatever you're using. Search for the AAPC podcast. Find us this there. And if you're listening to us, you can see and watch Erica share her story on the AAPC YouTube channel. You can find us just by searching AAPC in YouTube. And we appreciate your time, Erica, and you have a wonderful day. Thank you so much, you too.

I am Heather Johnson with AAPC. I am here with Christine Lambert. Christine, thank you for coming and chatting with us today. You are very welcome. Yeah, tell, okay, tell us a little bit about yourself. So I'm, my name is Christine Lambert. I am born and raised in Cordelain, Idaho. I am currently 33 years old and have been an AAPC member since 2016. Some of my hobbies outside of work are enjoying hiking and fishing with my two pit bulls and my husband and we just finished our motor home remodel. So that was the months and months of hard work that have finally paid off. I love that. I have not been to Cordillane but I hear it's beautiful. Very beautiful. Born and raised in Idaho? Born and raised in Idaho, yes. I've been lots of other places though, so I've been I backpacked through Europe in my early 20s for a month and I've been to the East Coast, Hawaii, the Caribbean's going to Mexico so, so kind of well-rounded. I love it. I know, can you tell me, I just want to know about your pitties, just a little bit. I'm a dog person. I know we've got a lot of like dog people and cat people in the community and I just want to hear about him. So I have two pit bulls. One is a red-nose brindle and he just turned 14. So usually I have him sitting in my office right now but I have a little dog bed and he hangs out with me all morning and when I wake up I said okay Booker let's go to work and he climbs the stairs with me and hangs out with me all day. And my second pity is a blue nose

which he is more of a razorback. So he is white with gray spots. Kind of like Petey from the little rascals. Oh yeah, yeah. Big eye patch. Yeah. Yep. He is seven and he is my guard dog. So if somebody comes rings, the doorbells, I pat. Yeah, uh-huh. Yep. He is seven and he is my guard dog. So if somebody comes rings the doorbells, I know someone is here, but he doesn't care who you are. He just wants to take out into the driveway and meet everybody. So. Yeah. That's so cute. So, um, okay, so I got up. They sound adorable. I'm a sucker for Brindle. I just think it's like so beautiful. But you work from home. I do work from home, yes. Okay, tell me, tell me about your job and now is your time to brag if you want to call out all those credentials you've got. Yes. So I initially started at my local hospital in 2013. The company I had previously worked for had closed their doors and I was originally going to school for paralegal. So it was a job for me to pay my way through school. I got into coding or got into the hospital and I was doing cardiac scheduling and we had an in-office auditor and she was like you got to do your CPC you need to do coding like you need to get into coding. So she came out one morning and said oh my gosh the CPC is on cell it's wicked crazy right now now. You have to do it. And I was like, oh, okay. I went home, looked everything up. And I was like, okay, I'm doing it. So I signed up for AAPC in 2016, passed my certification in 2017, got a call from our coding department that said, wow

wow, I've heard some great things about you. We would love to interview. Please come meet me. Got hired on in 2018 with my CPC, completed my CPCD, 2019, my CRC in 2021 and my CPMA in 2022. You are just collecting credentials. Yes, I am collecting credentials. And so throughout that time, the previous employment I had was in plastics. So I already had that knowledge from a scheduling standpoint. So when I started my coding career, I was coding cardiovascular and plastics in dermatology. So it made sense for me after my CPC was to go for my dermatology certification. So that's the route I went. So I just haven't stopped. Are you, okay. I wasto ask how you got into medical coding, but it sounds like you just had a colleague who recognized your talent, saw the opportunity, and there was a great sale and was like, you got to do it. And you got to look back. Nope, I haven't looked back. So I've actually have been a promoter for AAPC and I have another colleague that I just got into coding and she's currently going through training as well. So I'm like, who do you know? I love that. That's so good. I love that. Are you in your dream? Okay, this is like kind of a two-part question. One is like are you in your dream role right now or do you have like different career ambitions and the second is are you done collecting credentials or are you gonna just is it it sounds like you're doing one per year. Yeah

I personally think I'm done with credentials at the moment. I had actually just applied for college to go back and get my bachelor's and possibly health care management. Cool. I've been looking down that road right now to kind of further education instead of just credentials. But maybe when that's finished I thought about going for my CPCO, but like I said, couple years down the road. So what would you if you did, you said health care management? Yes. What would the next step be after you get your bachelor's? So I definitely want to stay in the coding job community. And so currently right now I'm an auditor and so I'm loving that position and maybe I can help do a management or a supervisor in our coding department or possibly one day move up to our compliance department. Cool. I love that for you. So you want to stay with, you've been with that organization, sorry, since 2016? 2013, so nine years. Yeah, and you want to stay there? You're happy there. Yes, they want to stay here. You have great company to work for. I love that. Do you want to call out what company you're at? Um, they prefer not. Yeah, use them in the health care, the business magazine. So if anybody wants to go look, you can look. But unless it's pre-approved, our director prefers we don't say company names. Yeah, I love that. Um, okay, cool. I've got a couple of questions I would ask. Um, I was going to ask what it was like preparing for a PC exam. You have now done a couple of exams. Can you talk about what that was like

especially maybe when it was your first time and you were so unfamiliar with it, like what that process was like and maybe like tips for future examinies. Yes, so my first CPC exam was in September that I took it and I failed it. I missed it by two points, but just the test anxiety before I went was awful. I literally pulled over on the side of the road and threw up before I got to the class, before the test. So I was so nervous, I didn't know what to expect and I had just, just the anxiety for myself was gut wrenching. So I failed it. And I was like, okay, I failed. And I was like, I'd take it again. I know my material, I know what to do. I just needed to calm down. And you can see that from my scores, as you looked at those. As I was in the class, my first sections were just awful, horrible. And then as I started to calm down, it just went through the roof. So I knew I had the information. It was just me personally. So I went and took my second testest , didn't study in between, so I was like, I know what I need to do, and there's no point in time to jam more information in there and just make it more stressful. So I went in in November again, took it, past it, it was a piece of cake. And knowing that you can go into that second exam and what to expect and you know the information, you have the information. It's just calming down and letting yourself take the time to answer those questions and have the confidence in yourself. And so ever since that second test, I knew what to expect and it's just been a walk in the park since. I love that

but I hate that your first test was so excited with it. What did you do to calm yourself down? Like four, I think I think that tests make a lot of people really nervous. What did you do to help yourself feel less stressed when you went for the second one in November? For the second one I didn't actually feel I did anything different. It was just knowing what to expect and that this was my test environment. This is what needed to be done. I knew what I was going into, and I think that anxiety part really lessened for me for that aspect. Okay, so it really was just a big dose of confidence. Yep. You didn't study anymore. You knew you knew the material. Did you, um, did you use like our practice exams or study guides? Yes, I went through the whole course. I did the terminology, anatomy, the whole course, practice exams. And so I knew I knew I had the information. It was just that anxiety for myself got me the first time. And when I went the second time it was flying colors and continued on. Yeah, good. I'm so glad that was so good for you. If you had, if someone were to tell you they were taking their first exam and you were to give them like two to three pieces of advice, like what would you say? Don't change your morning routine. Okay. So some people go into it and they're either eat really big breakfast or really small breakfast or get a coffee or they don't because the nerves. Just do what you do every single morning. And honestly

I bring snacks with me every time and I never eat them. Just something that you prefer to drink and put your head down and go to work. So as I have gotten used to my testing now, I actually swing in and grab a little breakfast fruit bowl and take it with me to class. And then we do all the book checks. So I sit there and eat breakfast as they're going through all the book checks and getting everybody registered and checked in and I just go from there. You're an expert now. Yeah. I wonder, do you like, do you see the people next to you and you can see they're stressed and you're like, guys, you got this? Like, yeah. Yes. So we're all going to be okay. I went from my CPMA just in June and you can kind of see some new people coming in and they just get all their stuff out and they have all their snacks and they're wrapping them all and they're kind of shaking it was like, deep breaths, you've got this. You are here because you have studied and you know the material. Just take a breath. I love it. I think that's really good advice. Thank you for sharing. Okay, so it sounds like your career has really taken the trajectory like that you have wanted or maybe maybe that you didn't like want or expect but that has been like really great for you I love. Do you feel like a PC has helped you has supported you in that? And so and what? Okay, okay. Tremendously. Tremendously. So the CPC is a really good overview of what is expected of coding. And then when you start getting into your specialty credentials

it really fine tooth combs those and get you all the information you need. And not only do the practices and the courses set you up for success, you have an entire community around you. So you have a Facebook you can ask questions, the forms, webinars, that magazines, there's so much information, you just have to take the time to learn it. And that's what people I personally think need to do, you know, it's a great resource to have. I love that. I love that it's not just like a one and done, that it's not like, oh, you take the test, you get certified, and you're gone. Like, it is a community. And it sounds like you're utilizing the networks of the Facebook group and like webinars and workshops. And I love that we've been a continual resource for you. Yes. Great. Okay, let me see if I have any other questions. I think mostly I just wanted to know if there was anything else that you wanted to share with the AAPC community. Don't stop. Don't ever stop learning. You know, it doesn't have to be just coding. It can be in compliance and auditing or your regulations, but as an individual, just keep learning. I love that. That's a really good advice. Okay and then before we sign off Booker and Kelo and Kilo. Kilo. Okay I wish that Booker and Kilo would have made an appearance. I'm a little sad they didn't, but I get it will be professional. But Christine, thank you so much for talking to me and I'm sure that the APC community is gonna love hearing from you. Perfect, thank you so much, Heather. It was great to meet you today. You too, bye. Bye.

Well, welcome to another edition of I am a APC. Today we have Rita all back and Mira with us Rita. How are you today. Hi everybody. How are you guys? We're excited to have you on and learn about your story in the business of health care. Rita, why don't you just kind of give us a little introduction of who you are, maybe where you live and and how you got into the business of health care. Right. So my name's Rita and right now I'm living in Baton Roa, Louisiana. A lot of hats, so I'm obviously in the coding industry. I have a day job as an auditor with a big firm and after hours I do a lot of things. I'm an educator. I'm also a provider, holistic health care, so that's something I'm really passionate about. And I do have a lot of kids. So I have one, two, three, four of them. Yeah, I have four, three daughters. They're all the same age and a son, he's almost three. The daughters are seven. Wow, but now do you work from home? I do. I'm sitting in my office right now. Hence the nice little background. As we know, most coders are messy. We're disorganized, but there's a method to it. No, you're always investigating code so you get your books and papers scattered everywhere. Right, it looks like some kind of mad scientist laboratory in here, or NASA command so many monitors. Well Rita, tell us a little bit about how long have you been in this field. So I want to say like seven years, give or take. I've always been interested in health care

but I was in a veterinary originally. So the little science background was there. I lived in Egypt and I got involved with some health care over there, which sparked an interest for kind of like documentation and then when I got back over here, I learned about, you know, I could go to school for medical coding. So I did. I got a diploma and then I got a degree and then I started getting certifications. And I just went from there. So first I got my CPC like most people do. And I also got a CCA from another organization. And then I just kind of racked up the AAPC ones there for a little bit. A lot of that had to do with COVID, a lot of time on everybody's hands and Black Friday sales that you guys used to do. But yeah, that's kind of, you know, all of it wrapped up into a little ball and my original intention with that is I planned on going into nursing school, but I had to raise kids so I didn't have time to go to college, ground college anyway. And so then I got diagnosed with Ellers-Danlos Syndrome and it's's kind of hard to do clinicals and whatever. So they kind of got put on the back burner. And so that's kind of where the coding side of it blew up. I have a real passion for the whole, I don't know, just the science behind everything. I like to nitpick everything apart. So I put that on the back burner so I did coding and then I was like, hey

hey, you know what? I'm gonna find another way to get into taking care of patients. So I got a couple of diplomas with that and certifications with that too. So it's awesome. And then I went and got my bachelor's and I ended up getting that because I enrolled in a program for clinical medical assisting and I couldn't finish that last class for the clinical. So I was like, you know what? I did this. I'm going to transfer my credit single in a health admin. I'm already in that and I'm like, woohoo, I'm glad I did it. Because all of that health health health law stuff and regulations, compliance, it's so amazing and it's interesting when you really dig deep into it. Tell us a little bit about, like when you first started studying for the CPC exam, did you feel overwhelmed or did it feel like a natural fit for you? I didn't feel overwhelmed and I think a large reason for that is because I did the whole college route. It's very slow and it's self-paced. And they break it down by book. By section, they teach you the anatomy, the all of the stuff that you need to know to navigate those books properly. They even do the mock exams. However, when it came to the more complicated exams, that's some major stuff like you really need to know a specialty if you're going to test for it specifically like we're here talking about the CHRC you would want to have some experience or some knowledge base in rheumatology and those conditions to be able to sit for an exam like that. Largely because if you're not familiar with the conditions related to a specialty

it's hard to find the right code for them. Well, before we dig into the CHRC, the certified rheumatology coder certification, like I'm looking at your background and you have all of these, you have many certifications, like what, what led you to each one? So obviously the, the CPC, it was just a no-brainer, right? But the next one I got was dermatology. And that is because I worked in dermatology, I was a scribe for nearly three years, I believe. And I just, I don't know, I just, everything skin just, it amazed me. But I did the coding too, so I would scribe the note, and then I would apply the codes to the note, andthen it would go out the door on a claim like, you know, coders reviewed it or anything. So I got pretty good at that and I was like, you know what, I'm just going to go ahead and get this one. And I was like, oh, this is fun. Okay, cool. But then I got a new job and I was a dermatology coder. So it got really exciting and it's like, you th. And I th. And I th. And I th. And I th. And I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I was like, I was like, I was like, th. I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was job and I was a dermatology coder. So it got really exciting and it's like, you know what, I think the next one I actually got was either a risk adjustment or rheumatology. I can't remember off the bat, but yeah, I was just like it kind of, you know, built on to the next thing. I'm like, yeah, these drugs that they're using in dermatology, they're also using it in rheumatology. There's a big overlap, you know

you know, and all of this stuff like the COC is outpatient. I'm doing all of this outpatient stuff all of the time and night, why not just it? And then, you know, that the job that I'm talking about where I did dermalogy coding, there was a large billing billing component to it and there was all auditing. So it's like I had to work the follow-ups on them so I went ahead and got the billing. Then the auditing we had to audit each other we had to audit other we had to audit providers and whatnot so why not just get that? Dedication man is. Yeah, well, it sounds like you love to study and you love that whole learning education process. I do. And the best thing about coding, it changes every year. So there's always like even if you stop, if you stop where you're at, you still have to keep learning. So that's the great thing about with coding. That's an interesting point that maybe a new coder or a student or someone thinking about coming into the industry may not know that it's, yeah, you don't stop with what you're studying for the certification exam, it continues forever. Right, and I see that all the time because I mean I talk to a lot of newbies I'm involved with the local chapter a lot and they come into it and they don't realize a you have to pay membership dues and B you have to get CEUs and it doesn't matter really what field what branch of health care you go into that's going to be the case if you get some kind of credential you're going to have to continue your. And you're going to have to adjust as things change, like, you know

you know, laws change, compliance stuff changes, the codes change. I mean, sometimes it's day from day to day, like with COVID, they couldn't make up their minds with the coding stuff. But yeah, so if you don't like having to adjust a change and learning new things, coding wouldn't be a great career for someone and reading. Oh my gosh, reading. If you don't like to read, don't become a coder because we are like medical proof readers in some sense. You know, what's awesome about talking to you Rita is you know someone say you know seven years you're still relatively new to the industry. Right. You your passion and your desire to know. It's all feels so natural and it just feels like it is the perfect fit for you. Oh yeah, I totally love it. And the good thing for me was when I enrolled in college, I came in in 2015, I 10 hadn't come out yet, but it was coming out. So I was the first group of students to learn the ICD 10. And I, you know, a lot of my course material was still based on nine. So I went back and I taught myself that I'm like, you know what, I see people are going back and they're looking at claims from six years ago. I think I might need to know this if I want to get a job. It's not going to be enough to put on my application. Hey, I have a degree and I know I see 10 because I might not need the I see 10 yet. Yeah, but yeah, I had an advantage for that. Well, you're doing all of this and you have this a young family. How do you how did you manage it all or how do you manage it all? Um

I don't have an answer to that. Some people say I'm a superhero, I don't know. Coffee, lots of coffee. Oh wait, wait, wait, let me turn it around so you guys can see it. These things are great. You can get them on. Yeah, you know where to get them. I have like two of them and one of the small black ones. I'm addicted to coffee. So yeah, the thing about coders and coffee is totally true. If it's not coffee, it's tea, it's coke. You guys know what I'm talking about. Well, you have an awesome demeanor. Yeah, and you seem relaxed and you love what you do. And that's just awesome to see. Real quick, let's jump over into the certified rheumatology coder the CHRC. So how did you, why did you choose to get the certification? So I am really, really nerdy about medical stuff. And like I said, the dermatology kind of sparked that. But additionally, I have Eller-Stanly syndrome. And there's an overlap there with a lot of rheumatologic stuff. So I already knew about a lot of these things. It was just like stuff I already knew about it was just easy for me and I like it. So I mean, if someone doesn't like a specialty, I wouldn't recommend certify. It's going to make it's going to make you sleep or hate your life. But yeah, I really like rheumatology. I don't have a certification that I don't have an interest in. So, were you, it doesn't sound like you were necessarily working in rheumatology and exploring those codes professionally at that time. Oh no, I was working multi-specially so I was in oh my gosh

oh let's see if I can remember. So I did adult and pediatric I did St. Jude rheumatology, rheumatology, dermatology, endocrinology, endocrinology, endocrinology, I care. I did neonatology. Goodness gracious, there's like 20 things on the list and I was doing it all in my one job. Yeah, it was multi-specialty. It's a health system and there's only a handful of, you know, people in the department, so all of us have a lot of hats to wear. So yeah I totally did work with rheumatology it just wasn't like you know 100% that's my job I'm a room coder. You can do so much with your certifications guys. Well so how did the CHRC help you with the rheumatology codes that came through? I'm going to be completely honest here, those injections. So a lot of rheumatologists are injection happy. They like to give joint injections. And that's something that's really tricky to build. Learning the material for the study, the study prep material, it really, I don't know, it just helped me so much just do my job. Not even just getting the certification, but going through those mock cases, it just really helped me do my job. And especially on the back end, when you're working a follow-up claim that someone else did and it got denied, those reasons will stick right out at you just looking at the coding if you're familiar with, you know, the nuances with rheumatology coding. So that, that was really helpful right there, just getting that extra knowledge. Awesome, awesome. It's great to see how, you know

you know, each certification that you have as a purpose and helps you in your career. Right. And you know what, if anything else, I'm an educator. So practice what you preach. If I'm going to say, you know, hey, yeah, this is such a great certification and, you know, we can achieve it this way. If I don't have it, how much are my words worth? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's very true, very true. Well, let's talk about students and your student experience and preparing for the CPC exam. I know I think you're in the Facebook group, the APC Facebook group. Oh yeah, I'm a lurker. Well, I lur like more than talk. Well, you see all of the chat. There are a lot of common questions and a lot of students who are nervous and eager for their upcoming exams. What advice would you give to them as they prepare for their CPC certification exam? All right, so I have some really good advice here. Know your guidelines, know them. And if you need a printed copy, that's a good option to you. You can print them separately, tab those guidelines. Know your guidelines. Marry them if you have to kiss them, love them. All right. Your book navigation. Okay, it's not enough guys to just kind of know how to use the tabular. You need to know where everything's out in your book. I'm not talking about where to find a specific code out of your brain. I'm talking about a, the guidelines, B, you need to know how to look up things in your table of contents, that's really good. Your neoplasms table, that's useful, your drugs and chemicals, your tabular obviously

and your appendices. Those are like my best friend. Yeah, and don't forget, you can make notes in your books and tab them any way you want to, just, you know, nothing like stapled in and no test questions, no answers, obvious stuff. Your books are your best friends in your exam and throughout your coding career. Love your books, know your books, they are your right hand, they are your left hand, they're your feet, your eyeballs and your ears. So that's advice number one. Number two, number three, number three is food, food, food, half sex, have food, have caffeine, and get rest, like get rest the night before. Sure, you can study. A lot of people say don't study the night before, but you totally can. If that works rest for you, do it, do do what works best for you. You don't have to listen to everybody on YouTube. If you know that you can retain the information or do things more efficiently in a way that works good for you, apply those techniques. So yeah, the guidelines, book navigation rest and snacks. That's my only advice for anybody. Okay. And I break people out with the snacks Alex like I show up in my whole table snacks. You got this a little buffet of snacks for yourself. Yes, I have this whole like I'm going to my exam this kit and I like, I roll up in there with my bags and my food, a layout, my stuff, got my ideaable, my little, my little, stancels and little whatever I'm using, magnifying roller. Those are good guys, magnifying glasses because the words are small, little, I have a wind up watch, like, I'm creeping people

just ready to go. But, you got, you got to prepare. Be prepared. Not just, you know, it's going to help you, but just knowing that you're prepared makes you feel better. It's like those, those exam jitters, the preparedness will like nip them. So that's a good thing. That's awesome. That what great advice. Thanks so much for sharing the the reader protocol for exam. Pretty much. Yeah, maybe I should write a book like how not to be nervous for your exam and how to do better. That's right. Well, so let's talk about the next step, finding that first job, because that is a common question in the group as well. You see that. Awesome, yeah, great question. What was it like for you? Let's talk about your experience, because you mentioned, you're thinking about going into the clinical side, but that didn't work out. How did you get that first job? Oh, you did talk about scribe as well. Yes, that's how I got my foot in the door. So how did you get that scribe job? How did you work in health care prior to that? So prior to that was in Egypt. I was helping a doctor there do things, make things more efficient. It had a lot of duties actually, but I just, it had more to do with paper records, like trying to deal with a monster pilot paper records. And so I kind of looked up, you know, what we were doing here in America besides buying epic system, something that I could do on a budget and went from there and just kind of I had a group, a group following me kind of thing. But yeah, then I came back here and I worked kind of remotely, you know

you know, doing some advice, doing research here and there for my little friend over there. But yeah, so college, that was pretty much it. So my first job though, trying to find a job, except I had, listen Alex, I had a degree, I had a CPCA, I had a CCA, uh-uh, no. Like it's brutal. Some people can find a job right off the bat, but for the nubes, it is brutal. That conundrum about, you know, two years experience, how do you get it if nobody lets you get it? The answer is, looks outside of the box. Apply to be a scribe. You'll learn great documentation concepts being ascribed. And I mean, I'm talking about HCC, CDI, you will learn it all being ascribed. You'll learn how to build a soap note, use EMRs, whatever. There's also you could be a biller, or you could work in patient accounts, you know, calling people, hey, you owe $23. Could you make your payment today? Anything, front desk. You could work in the lab, be a requisition person. Look outside the box. That's my best advice right there because you can get your foot, even if you end up working for a different company later, just being able to put that on your resume is very helpful. Some kind of health care experience is relevant. You've had your hands in a computer and an electronic medical record system. You've got some kind of experience with the lingo. You're good to go. You need less training. Another thing is, shoot, my mind just went

loop. I'll think of it and come back to it. Yeah. Did you know anything about scribes prior to working as a scribe? I knew what a transcriptionist was. Now it's very similar. I mean, they used the term interchangeably now because, you know, transcription is kind of an older field. But I knew what a transcriptionist was. I did not know what a scribe was. And when you found out that you're actually on your feet in the clinic shadowing a provider documenting real time, I was just like, woohoo, that's for me. That kind of put you close to the clinical side. It did. So I had to see things, you know, right up close and personal. I was watching procedures and whatnot. I was in every, every patient, you know, encounter in the in the exam room. So I was eyes and the ears of the provider on the computer. Everything she would say or maybe she would toucest something. I would document that and then she would go in and obviously edit if she needed to. That being said, that is a great way to learn your medical terminology. Yeah, you kind of can't be a scribe if you can't document like a doctor. Okay, awesome. Well, you know, APC has launched a scribe certification. I know I've been waiting like three years. I'm on the wait list and I, you guys inbox has probably got like 10 emails for me. Oh, it's you, you who's sending all of those scribe emails. Yes, it's me. That's right. It's me. Well, awesome. So it's exciting to hear how you use that to help you move your career forward. Now, let's talk about that first coding job. How did you

so you had work as a scribe and then how did you lead into that coding job? So the scribe thing kind of got, I mean, it was great for a long time, but it's not something that you really want to stand unless you want to be a professional scribe. I did not. Obviously I wanted to be a coder. It was my foot in the door job. So I started applying for jobs and one day I got a phone call. Like out of the blue must have been like 50 applications I put in and I got a phone call. So I got my first coding job and I just kind of moved up, moved up the ranks in that coding job. I was there almost four years, yeah, four years before I took a part-time and then I ended up getting hired full-time as an auditor with part-time and now I'm with them. Well, so that's interesting to me. So when you got your first coding job, you're there for four years, which is a good amount of time, and you haven't had many jobs. No, no. Okay. Wow. And that's another thing that's more advice, you know, unless you have just a terrible, terrible place that you can't tolerate, you know, stick it out. Stick it out. Because I mean, your resume, if you have a new job every three to six months or even every year, it looks like you're flaky. So I mean, if things are, you know, somewhat beneficial to you still stick it out really stick it out. I'm not saying to put up with toxicity or anything or you know damage your mental well-being, but yeah. Yeah

you gotta weigh the benefits. So how did you know you'd like auditing? I was already doing it at the health system I was at. So I wasn't just a coder, it was like a full stop shop coding rule where you did pretty much everything including education. So I already knew I liked it because that was a big, a big percentage of my job. And there towards the end it was mostly what I did. So I already knew I loved it. Now I'm actually auditing coders. So it's a little bit different than auditing just providers mostly. I mean, at the old place, I would audit colleagues too, but not so much it would be providers and then educating providers, whereas when you audit a coder, it's a whole different type of finesse needed because, you know, a coder, we're the experts, we have the credentials here, we've been trained for this, we sat for five hour, 40 minute exam. They don't take, they don't take the feedback as nicely as you'd like, but it's understandable, I mean, yeah, but it's always on good faith, you know, and auditor is just where the coder is like with a provider, we're not there to be your enemy, we're there to help you. Okay, and is this, is this it? Are you like, I am an auditor. This is how I want to ride out the rest of my career or are there other things that you may want to explore. I am glad you asked. So auditing is just to be honest and I hope my employer doesn't hate me for this. It's a way for me to make money right now because I want to be an educator. I'm an educator and a clinician at heart. So that's my main goal with coding. I need to

you know, keep my professional stuff active enough to keep my experience relevant. I don't want to be one of those instructors who haven't, hasn't seen a chart in 15 years. So I want to keep a foot in that world, whether it's full time, part time, whatever, but I'm an educator and that's where I'm going with it. Okay, awesome. Well, I want to I want to teach your certifications. That's cool. That is so great to be here. Now, um, so I see all of your certifications we talked about that and one common question that we see in the group that you have seen is CEUs I need to see you use. And when you have that many certifications Rita, it could seem overwhelming to earn CEUs for those specialties. All right, I've got good news for you, Alex. So first of all, AAP seems very kind and generous. Once you get so many, they kind of stop, stop putting salt in the wounds there, so to speak. I can't tell you exactly how many I need right now because I've gotten a few recently and I'm actually going to sit for one Saturday this Saturday. It changes. They're kind of I think they're pro rated or something the way it calculates. But I mean the most you could probably ever need is 70 and that's like if you have every certification AAPC offers. The good news on those are like if you within chapter meetings and AAPC sponsors CEUs, there's some of them where you can double dip you'll get your core and your specialty. So where you would have gotten one or two you get now extra. So it's not that hard to get them and I get get, to be honest

most of my my CEOs come free from APC. We have the quarterly webinars. We have after meetings and most of them are virtual now. And I'm a big, like, yay, support your local chapters person. So get to your meetings guys. There's like unlimited. You can get in a from that and then health care business monthly you get free a year and I just made a commercial for you guys. That's right. That's right. Well it sounds like you know if you just choose to stay on top of it then you're fine. Exactly. Exactly. I think the biggest challenge that people face is they don't, they don't know how to navigate the APC website, where to find all of this juicy information that I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. Okay, guys and codify. Codeify is great. It is paid paid stuff, but you do, you can get CEUs from that too. Okay, awesome. Well, Rita, thanks so much for spending some time with me and sharing your story. This has been awesome. I love your passion and your energy for the industry and for what you do. It's infectious. Woo-hoo. Y'all get infected. That's right. There's no vaccine for Rita. That's right. Well, would you just kind of share? Do you have a final thought? What message would you share to someone who is coming who is considering this as a career, what would you tell them? Do your research. Don't jump into or commit to or spend any money on anything into you understand fully what a medical coder is and the different things, you know, that's a very wide term there, you know, medical coder. There's very different roles a medical coder can do and where

you know, how that can expand or upward, move upward in some organization like you could end up being a director or something. So do your search, see what's involved with it. Scout the different certifying organizations, the CEU required for that, you know, hybrid fields like CDI. There's so many things you can go with coding, but I don't do your research before you can do it. Awesome. Thanks so much Rita. Stick with me just for a minute. For those who are watching, you can listen to Rita, share her story on the AAPC podcast. Just go to your favorite podcast app and search for the AAPC podcast. And you can listen to Rita as you're mowing the lawn or gardening or preparing dinner, whatever you're doing. And we'd love to hear Rita share her story there as well. And Rita, thanks so much for your time today. I really appreciate you guys having me and I'm so thrilled I got to talk to everyone. Awesome.

Hello AAPC family. Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC. I am Alex McKinley from the National Office and today I have Nick Benzel with me. How are you, Nick? How are you, Nick? How are you? How are you? How are you? How are you? How are you? I'm you? How are you? I'm great. Thank you. Thanks for joining us. And I was just telling Nick that the AAPC marketing team saw Nick posting in the Facebook group. And he shared so much great information about his journey and tried to give the knowledge that he has to help other coders and we thought, let's get this guy on I am a PC. So Nick, why did you tell us a little bit about your career history and what led you to medical coding? Sure, I mean, I think this is a very interesting story and it's my own so I usually don't think anything about myself is that interesting but this story is so I've been in the culinary industry all my life and up until last year when COVID happened I had no problem with work or anything, though I will admit I wasn't quite happy with where I was at, you know, in my life as far as regarding my career. You know, working in the culinary industry is stressful and the order we get, the tougher it gets for that environment for us to stay on top of things, you know, the order you get, it's a tough business. So COVID happened and someone who was very close to me kind of nudged me in the direction of coding. And they knew how I felt about my current career and they said, hey look

hey look, you're laid off right now. There's no restaurant work. You're kind of just sitting around. Luckily with unemployment I was getting, but still not doing anything otherwise. Why don't you make a move right now? And with that little bit of help, because I couldn't, I would have never taken that leap on my own. With that little nudge from them, I was, I jumped into an online course and I completed almost all of the course before the restaurants opened back up. I finished the rest of the criteria while returning to the restaurant business, and then sat for the national exam in November. And then I just, you know, I passed. So after that, it was more just finding a job while I was continuing to work at the restaurant. Nick, what did you know about the national exam as you're preparing for the course? Yeah, I mean I was I checked YouTube videos. I read about, and I was told that it was not an easy test. So, but I think I was going to be a little bit intimidated no matter what, because it had been so long since I had done anything academically. But yeah, I mean, any time your approach was something that you don't know much about or you've never been through before, you're going to be a little bit more nervous and anxious than someone who maybe has, you know, done something not exactly like the CPC exam, but they take a certification test before. It's not an easy test, though

though, which is good. Because I want to prepare me. What tips would you give to a APC student who's about to take the exam? What advice would you give them? The practice exams. They just, they were invaluable. So the online course I took supplied me with 150 question test, which had a time limit, and then a mock 150 question, which is supposed to simulate the real test as closely as possible. And you have a time limit there. What is the time limit? I think it's like, I think my online course gave me six hours, but I think it's a little bit less five hours, 40 minutes. Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah. So those practice exigents will get you prepped and ready and you do want to time yourself. Did you have any health care experience prior to any of this? So you mentioned your culinary background. Did you have any any experience at all? None. Zero. I mean the closest thing I could say is that from being in the weightlifting throughout my life, I, you know, read up on nutrition and anatomy. That's the closest, you know. So you had to take anatomy to help you prepare for the actual coding piece of all of this. Absolutely. I think it's vital. Okay. All right. And here you are in the culinary industry. You pass your exam and then the next step finding employment. Yeah, that was that was tough because I coming from an industry wherein you're able to kind of just it's so less, it's so much

it's so less formal. You could walk into a restaurant and ask for the person in charge of hiring or the owner and have a quick chat with them and know right then and there whether you're interested or they'll know whether they're interested. And the fact that I've been in the industry all my life and I knew so many people in the area my network had just come without any deliberate work to gain that network. It just sort of organically grew throughout the years. So I could get a job anywhere at any time really even if that restaurant maybe wasn't in dire need of someone, they would seriously consider someone like me because of the credentials I had formerly. So how did you find your first job as a medical coder? So, I mean, that was the whole thing. What do I do? I'm so used to kind of being spoiled in a way where I didn't have to really gun or fight for the job at all. So now I'm starting with a completely clean slate. And I don't know that I have the skills yet. You know, I'm just thinking, I'm going off of, look, I passed the exam and I passed this course. I really love it. That's all I have to go on in my mind at that time, consciously. So I'm basically just going on the job boards and throwing up applications for coding jobs, which there weren't that many. There were a ton of billing and other administrative positions that I didn't really know were part of coding and billing per se. You know

I thought I had to apply for a certified professional coder job. So obviously I got very bad results at first because I just didn't really know what I was doing. But you just when you really really want something you'll do anything to figure it out. And that means humbling yourself and maybe asking for more help than you are one thing or used to asking for. And you just start to get repeat answers, you know, and repetitive advice, and you go, okay, I keep hearing the same key factors. It just slowly starts to click, but I couldn't have done it without asking all those questions and reading any articles that I could. Just asking around, really. So are you still in the hunt for your first position? No, I have two jobs. I've got a part-time coding job, and I have a full-time job at the number one. They're the health network in Pittsburgh. They're one of the two biggest health networks. So I work UPMC. And it, was it difficult for you? Do you feel like to come over the CPCA stigma? No, I still have my CPCA. I have not gotten my apprenticeship removed yet. Um, have two jobs. So obviously it's not, it's doable to get a job when you still have the apprenticeship tagged on to that certification. And did that come up in your interview? And how did you handle it? Never once did anyone ever bring that up. Wow. I probably had 50 interviews. Okay, so did you, you're just submitting applications and resumes to wherever you could? Yeah, eventually through asking questions on the Facebook groups, which are great groups

but you have to take things with the grain of salt because there's some people on there that are jaded, like any Facebook group or social media group. But you could tell who the helpful ones are and the positive people are. But they started saying, you know, you don't really have to work or apply for a certified professional coding position. There's all these other administrative health care positions that you can apply for. And that's something that the person who actually nudged me into this whole thing had told me, and it didn't, it didn't it didn't click didn't I didn't really retain it the way I should have and they told me look coding is a skill it's it's applicable directly and indirectly so just because know, maybe you're applying for a job where you're doing data entry at a health care facility, it's not, you're not exactly coding or, you know, reading operative reports and doing ICD 10 codes and stuff, the people that are looking at that resume are still going to be interested in you. And I guess the best way that I interpreted it was, I think that the hires, the employers, are looking at the fact that, you know, if you passed that exam, then you've accomplished a certain difficulty. You've, you know, that's a difficult goal to accomplish. So if you can get that, then you can do the job that they're calling you about. You know, not to put down all billing and coding positions, but you know, there are certain positions around there that are not nearly as difficult as doing coding. So I believe that the employer sees that and goes, okay

okay, this person can absolutely handle this position. Well, Nick, now that you're working in a facility or two, you've got two positions in health care now, and you're seeing the different possibilities and different avenues that you can go with your coding skill set. Are there paths that you see you taking in the future? I like coding. I would have taken a job doing anything else, authorization specialist or just data entry or just part of the revenue cycle, any part of the revenue cycle. But I knew that I loved coding. And so after interviewing as much as I did, I realized that, you know, I wanted to do coding. I was very sure of it. And so now that I'm doing it, I'm still just as confident and committed to the coding aspect. So I don't know if I'll divert from it ever, but not any, definitely not anywhere in the near time, in the near future. Not any time in the near future. Nick, you mentioned that early on in our discussion that you love your coding education, you love coding. What do you love about coding? I have always been interested in anatomy, physiology, like I said, going back to the weightlifting. Why does the body work this way? And you know, all these muscle groups and the skeletal structure and the organs and what are they doing and the diet. Why does your diet need to be the way it is? Things like that, you just start to pick up on how the body works. It's interesting to me. On the other side, I've always been super interested in surgery and how procedures are done

why they're done. I have a general interest in diseases and disorders. It's very interesting to me why those diseases and disorders affect the body the way they do, how they come about, things like that. So when I was doing the online course, you know, the very first things that they cover are anatomy, physiology, and that stuff. So that sort of got me, that got the ball rolling. And I had no idea. It was, it was just completely coincidental that once I started doing the actual coding and reading the reports and the encounters that I saw it almost as like a puzzle that you have to solve. So when you're reading these reports and these encounters, these documents from the doctors and the physicians and providers. You've got to abstract data. Why are you abstracting that data? What about the, what data are you abstracting? Things like that and you have to kind of figure it out. It kind of is like a puzzle. And so I kind of like that as well. I've always been good with resolution. I've always been a decent organizer. I like to organize things. I like to stay organized. So I kind of all fell in to place with what coding was about and how you code and the process of coding. All of it falls together for me. It's fun. It's challenging though. But it's fun. Do you miss a culinary world? Not really. Just a little bit. I missed the people. And the work I did it for so long that, you know, I didn't even think twice about it. So, I mean, I still cook at home. So I'm still doing the cooking, you know

you know, I'm just doing it on my own term. So I'm not doing it on someone else's dime or schedule. Yeah, yeah. Now, how long have you been employed in health care? This is all new. Yeah, very new. So like I said, I passed the exam last October, actually. And I got my first job, which is part-time, independent contracting, with a private billing consultant in March. And then I got hired by UPMC. I started in June, so I've only been with UPMC for five or six weeks. Well, it's all happening. It's all unfolding. It's exciting to see. And you're doing it, Nick. I am. It's kind of crazy. You know, it's crazy that COVID was the catalyst for this, what I've just been through over the past 15, 16 months. So something terrible actually turned into a positive, which I think is a good life lesson for a lot of people and I think it can be inspirational for a lot of people. Yes, yes, well, so any thoughts about future certifications for you? So some individuals, they see, oh, I want to be CPB as well, or I want to learn these different aspects of the revenue cycle. Do you have any any gravitation towards any future APC certifications in addition to your CPC? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, obviously the auditing certification. I mean, I'd like to get into inpatient. So, you know, I think it's called the CIC. As many certifications as I can get, I will. I'm just sort of soaking it all in at the moment, so I'm just trying to learn the job since I'm so new to everything. I'm not too concerned about getting any certifications right now. But, you know, in the next

I hopefully in the next decade, I'll definitely have at least a couple more under my belt. Awesome. That is so great to hear you. You see potential, um, even in building upon what you've already learned. Nick, you know, we mentioned early on that, you know, you shared a lot in our APC Facebook group. In brief, just what would you tell to someone who is considering a career in this industry? If you're, you know, you have to be a motivated person. You can't be, you have to be a self-starter. You have to be okay with continuing to educate yourself, continuing to study. I see a lot of people thinking that the studying is over and done with once they pass the exam and I just can't see that being possible because the health care industry is changing almost on a dime all the time so you really have , you're constantly relearning things, you're constantly learning new angles that the healthcare industry is stemming from or gravitating towards. Does that make sense the way I'm explaining that? Yes, it does. Yeah, lifelong learners. Yeah, you have to be okay with continuing to put in the extracurricular work, you know, be prepared to spend a couple hours at least a month, a couple hours at least a month of on your off time devoted towards coding and continuing to learn, continuing to refine and move with the chains, so to speak. You know, you kind of have to be like, you have to be, you have to have fluidity. You know, you have to be, um

um, okay with going with the flow and changing if you have to. Yeah. All right. So someone who's adaptable and loves to learn, loves to seek new information from all of those things would be make a great coder. Yes, for sure. All right, Nick. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. We're excited for you. And it was fun to see your interaction and to see your interaction in the Facebook group. We hope you keep sharing in there and supporting. That's what one thing that I love about AAPC and this industry is you really don't understand how big and how unified the community is until you take that step forward. And now here you are a year later supporting those who are now taking their own journey into the industry of health care and medical coding. Right, and those are the, those are the people that I feel I can help, you know, because I'm so new to everything. Really, the only advice I can give is how to get the job. And just don't forget that just because you don't have any previous experience doesn't mean you don't have those skills. And I believe my mentor was the first person to talk about them and they are definitely called transferable skills. So you know you've got skills in one job that relate to any other job. And so you've got to kind of learn what those are and those are going to be the skills that get you the job.

Welcome to I am AAPC, one of our first I am AAPC broadcasts and we have Cheryl DeSarno with us today. Cheryl, how are you? I'm doing well. Thank you. How are you? I am so good and I'm so grateful for you being on here with us and sharing your story. So for those who are new to I am a PC. We thought it'd be a great idea to share the stories of A. P. C. Members where they started from maybe they're experienced with the exams and where they're going and where they hope to be. So Cheryl, would you tell us a little bit about your story? You sent me a little bit of information about where you were. Looks like you were in the food service business before health care. So tell us about that. I was working in the food service business. I was a stay-at-home mom. My girls had all gotten in school and I kind of wanted to launch my career. And I always liked to work in the health care field, but I didn't want to be a nurse or any or flabotomy or anything. So I looked at our school in the area. They have adult education classes that you can take at night and they had one on medical coding and billing. So I thought, I should try this. So I tried it and took my CPC test and I passed. Did you have, well, so not everybody's up to the clinical side of health care. Was that you? Like, can you handle the needles and, and, no, no. But I don't want to do it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. So, so you took this course. And was it through APC or was it through some

another provider? Back then it was through like an adult education program that they have in the area. Okay. At the APC online back then, had they? I probably, I definitely would have taken it. Yeah, yeah. About the coders here in our office that have taken the APC online course for the CPC exam and they usually pass the first time. Oh, wow. That's so great to hear now, but you had to take your exam, your CPC exam through AAPC. Tell us about your preparation for that and what was it like to actually take it? Was it harder than you thought? Was it easier than you thought? Tell us about that experience. So I did a lot of study in. I bought the online exams through AAPC, so I knew, would know what I was getting myself into, because those practice exams that they, that you're, were able to buy really preps us for the CP3 exam or any of the exams that we take through APC. And I took a little mini course. It was like an eight-hour course through a lady up here in our area in New York that teaches us how to prep for the exam and you know try not to overthink and we kind of learned our way around the, you know, the CPC book and the ICB 10 book, because that's the most important thing is knowing your way around the book. You mentioned you were, you live in New York or on the East Coast. Were you aware of a need of these positions in in medical coding, billing prior to taking the exam and taking that step forward? Yeah, I had started reading about what it was, how it was coming. I started like back with the HIPAA law because they were, you know

you know, sending claims out electronic claim. We needed to put the diagnosis code and the procedure code. And so not anybody could just read it and know what it was. So that's how kind of coding got into what we are today. All right. And so you take the exam, you pass the exam, array. Yes. And I'm sure that was a relief. We see it online all the time. Yeah. It's a great relief to pass the the CPC exam. And did you were you able to get a job right away right after finishing your exam? So right away I didn't get a job in coding right away, but I wasn't going to let that get me down. So I started working. I worked in a pediatrics office for a couple years and did like billing and reception and collection. And then I got into a small rural hospital in our area and did billing there for three years. And they moved me in the coding for two and then I moved into a bigger hospital where we have 250 providers so yeah. Yeah, did your CPC? Did that help you in your billing, in your starting billing, it did? How so? And I like it better because I know both sides of the claims, so when I do send it out, like if I see a claim come across with no insurance, I know it's very important for the billing side to try to find that or put give it to the right team member that can find find the insurance for the claim. So I feel like it's it's good to do both sides. Okay. And you have seven certifications through AAPC. One of them is the CPP are billing certification. Did you

did you work on that after you got your billing position or after? I worked on that after I got my coding because I had a supervisor that wanted us coders to start taking more exams and learning more and make so I picked the billing one I said oh I should I should try this one. Yeah yeah and how was how was that billing preparation for that exam? How was that compared to the CPC exam? It was a little bit different because you're kind of learning all about the different insurances and there are a whole different identity than coding. Now, many perspective APC students and members, they wonder, what's the best path to take? Do I take the CPC first? Do I take the CPC first? And we see different paths from different members. I would say the most typical path is members taking the CPC first. Do you have any suggestions for those on that discovery? I highly suggest if you want to be a coder to start with that coding one, you know, coding test first. And then if you want to be a pillar first, that would be a good one to start with too. The billing one would be good to start. All right, all right. So here you are, you are working as a biller. Eventually you get your dream job of being a coder. And did that job live up to what you thought it would be? Yes. Yes. Tell us about that experience. When you have all all of this experience as a student and as a biller, but this is your first foray into actual coding. Was it a natural fit or did it take time for you to feel comfortable there? It was a natural fit for me. I love it. It's like I live and drink

you know, live and eat and it's coding all the time. Wow, wow. That's great. That's great. And what if you were to generalize a type of individual that works as a coder, you know you work with other coders now I'm sure and is there a personality type that you see that is a good fit for the coding positions? A good fit for a person to be encoding is one that likes everything in its place. Kind of, because it kind of all just flows together and you've got to learn how to put all the pieces together and get it out to the insurance. Okay, all right. People who can take constructive criticism. Coding is a good, because you're always going to learn something new if you like to learn coding is the thing to do. Tell me a little bit about that constructive criticism, Cheryl. Give us some examples. So if a new coder may be curious and say, well, what kind of constructive criticism comes your way? Is it from your manager? Is it from the insurance companies? Tell us. From your manager or other coders and maybe we could show them how to do it a better way or a faster way that's going to help them get their work done and finished for the day. Okay, so there's always room for improvement as a coder. Yes. And I guess every facility handles things a little bit differently so there's new things to learn as you switch positions and things like that. Right, right. Okay, all right. Well, you have

you have, we mentioned you have seven certifications. And I would just love to understand and see how your role as a coder has evolved. Because I feel like the seven certifications show a desire to learn more or maybe you've been put in positions that where you felt like, hey, I'm learning, I'm doing this now, so I want to be proficient in that and show that proficiency. So you mentioned you have the CANPC. Tell us about that. What is that certification? Certified anesthesia pain management coder. So when I came to my bigger hospital where we have 250 providers, I was a coder two and they put me into pain management. And this was a very, very busy office. So after I coded it for about a year, I decided to take that certification next. So I could be more proficient in it. And I thought it would be better for my career. Okay, and do you fall back on that skill set often? Yes, I do. Okay, all right. And then you have the CRC, which is risk adjustment, is that correct? Yes. Tell us about what led you to there. That is, they got me into a new role where I was like, I went from Coder 2 to senior coder. So I kind of wanted to get a little bit of everything under my belt, whether it be surgery, E&M's family med, primary care, and risk adjustment was the up and coming thing for, and it still is for all the advantage Medicare programs. So and that was nothing, that was one book that I had to take with me. Six books with me

but risk adjustment was one book. It was all I CD10 coding. Okay. All right. And then you certified in OB. Right. And then you certified in OB. Right. They put in, them to coding OBGYN. So I brought it back in-house for us because it was outsourced. So I brought it back in-house and after coding that for about six or seven months I decided to sit for that exam too. Okay, all right. And finally, all not finally, two more. CEMC. Right, that was the beast. Really, really? Not my favorite thing, but I was going to tackle it and I was going to pass it. What is that? Tell us about that certification. What is the CEMC stand for? A certified evaluation and management coder, so all providers are going to have E&M levels, whether they're surgeons or pain management or their internal med, every provider has E&M office visits. Okay, and why was that so tough? So I, because you go, you can either go by the 95 guidelines or the 97 guidelines and you had to meet all this criteria for each level. So it can be a little bit difficult, once you learn it it's like secondhand. Okay once you get it you get it. Yes. Like riding a bike. Right. All right. And would you recommend I imagine you'd recommend that for more experience coder maybe someone who's's been doing this for a while. Right, for at least a year. Okay, all right. When would you know that that's that that's something that you should step into? Um, I feel like once they've been coding, E&M leveling for at least a year, they could step in and take that exam. Okay, so that EMM, E&EB leveling. Yep

it'll prepare them for the exam. Okay. And finally, the CPMA. Right. Certified professional medical auditing. So right now on my job, I do a lot of auditing, a lot of education, because I educate providers on documentation. What's needed, what's not? Why do I, why do I have, they might, we send our providers a change report. So they might wonder why, why do I have all these level ones? Level one, you know, visits and we can pull the documentation and I'll audit it and it's, oh, it's because your exam is only detailed and it has to be comprehensive. So that auditing and the E&M helped me out with my career that I have now. Okay, so your career, which is about 11 years old. Right. May I ask, how far into your food service career were you before you jumped into medical coding? Did you have a family at this point? Were you more established when you made this jump? Yep. My next to the youngest daughter, she graduated from school the year I passed my CPC exam. Oh wow, wow, well how scary as you know, you're here you are and you're coming to a full stop and shifting gears, taking a new path. And do you ever miss the food service business? No. No. You're happy with the choice you made. I am. Okay, all right. But it was so worth it. Yes

yes. And have you been with the same company the whole time in your health care career? I started out in a private practice for three years with pediatrics and then I moved to a smaller rural hospital. I was there for five years and now where I'm at now at a bigger hospital. We have over 250 providers with a residency program. I've been here five years. And what's your role there, Cheryl? Coding Compliance Educator. Okay. I might educate providers, educate new coders. I mean, it could be anything with the providers, a diagnostic, you know, diagnosis codes and it could just be anything that they need a question on. So you're not doing the day-to-day coding anymore. I have one provider that I do code for. And well, during the pandemic, everything kind of shifted for everybody. I got sent home, and I'm a people person. So that was getting used to. So I went back into coding like pain management and OB while we were in the pandemic. And I we just got more people in to our facility to code, so I just got them all trained. So now I'm slowly getting back into what I was doing before the pandemic hit. So I hear when I hear you tell me about your new role. I hear teacher for coding teacher. So in that do you help with the hiring of new coders in your facility? Yes. Yep. Okay, this is a hot topic because you were there once and you know how tough it can be to get your first job. What tips do you have for coders seeking their first job after certification? Learn their way around the book. I'll learn a lot more about E&M coding

which they're not going to learn until they get on the job. But just knowing their way around the book and where everything is located is a big help. Okay. And knowing their ID 10 guidelines is a great help too. Okay. What makes a CPCA stand out in a stack of resumes and may lead you to hire someone brand new? Well, we ask, we have them do a small little test to see where they stand. Oh, and we do ask them, you know, what's a, what's this modifier for like a modifier 25? When would you use that? Simple questions that a new coder should be able to answer. So, you have all of these future APC exam and he's listening to this is thinking, another exam? Small one, I promise. Okay, all right. We even had a couple coders that we brought in that were not certified, but they had sat through the class or they were going to set through the APC course. And we've had three of them and they passed the test the first time. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So they passed. So here in our area, we wanted to give people. We wanted to bring all the coding in house. So in order to do that, we can't just hire a coder that's got two years experience. We need to do some training. We need to get this program up and running. Okay. So in your facility, regardless if you have five or 10 years of experience or your new coder, you're still going to go through Cheryl's training and learn your facility system. Right. Or we have two other senior coders that help train too. Okay, all right. You know, there's three of us. Wow, okay, great. So, you know

you know, you have your seven APC certifications. You've been a member for 11 years. What's next for Cheryl? What is next is either general surgery? I kind of want to do more surgical coding and get into that side of it. Wow. I'm really seriously thinking about taking that one next. We talked about this before before we started recording. Just how you have a passion for learning. I love to learn. Yeah. This career you will learn every day. That's been a great thing. Oh, good. Now, it sounds like you're involved with A.P.C. Local chapters. Yes, I'm the president for the Corning chapter of Coders. So that's been new for us to do everything soon, but the members seem to like it. And I feel like we have more people coming than when we did the in-person. Okay. Oh, that's great to hear. That's great to hear. And I bet you, I think we have the intent of having some virtual aspect with local chapters going forward. The world has changed. Yes, it's definitely changed. Is this your first role as a local chapter officer? No, a couple of years ago I was vice president. Okay. And it can be time consuming. I know local chapters have requirements to host exams several times a year. Right. So my question to you, Cheryl, is why do you do it? Because I want to help other coders succeed in their career. It's my passion. Awesome. Do you have- Yeah. Yeah, so you've got these new kids, but they're coding kids. Oh, wonderful. And do you have many new coders that attend your meetings? We just found, there is a class going on right now

and I talked my best friend into taking it, because she was in phlebotomy. she's been a flabotomist for eight years and she teaches it but I'm like you really should get into coding and she's like all these years she's like I could never do what you do but now she's taking the course and she's loving it. Okay so she comes over like every other week and I sit with her and kind of show her around the books by the way around. Tell us, um, do you think networking that chapter meetings is, um, is helpful for new coders. Let's say someone, your student, and a student's watching this, is it valuable for them to sit in on their local chapter meetings and do you have you ever found employees through chapters? Yes, we've found employees through chapters because we can make announcements. Oh, hey, this doctor's office, this hospital's hiring. And we have found a couple of our coders here, where I'm at, through the meetings. It's a great place to network. It's a great way, a place to meet other coders. If you want to reach out to maybe they have a certain, maybe you're struggling in the cardiovascular system and you'd like to have some extra help. A lot of times these coders would be glad to help a new coder out to help them understand things before they take the CPC exam. Great, great. Just a good resource to guide you along in your studies or in preparing for your first job. All about. And just thinking about that, Cheryl, you mentioned with COVID, you know

you know, I think most of us were sent home to work. And there's so many coders that are looking for at home positions, but you're the opposite. You'd like to be around everybody in the office. Yeah, it was a shock for me to go home. It's like, oh no. I see where we can get more done at home, but if you're a coder, you can get more done. Or we found that our billers here in the office have gotten more done at home than they did in the office because there's always going to be somebody somebody asking you questions or interruptions. We have found that it worked great for us. Okay, and I know that comes up a lot as far as working from home in our Facebook group. And we, I think there are individuals who are hoping to get their first job as a at home coder. That's typically not the case. I think more often than not you'd like to see a year or two of experience before sending them home. Right, because we were starting that program here because we had a lot of coders that were like an hour hour and a half away and they were driving in every day and so we were just getting that program started and we had like seven or eight of our coders working from home and they had to come in one day a week and then COVID hit two months later and everybody was sent home. Oh boy, oh boy. Have you had to do much hiring during the pandemic? We had to lay off a couple but then we called them back and then probably hired like two or three more because we we want to keep thing in-house. Yes, things have picked back up

it seems. And hopefully that discontinues. Yes. All right. Well, Cheryl, you've shared so much great information. It's awesome to hear your story as someone, I don't want to, you look very young, so I don't want to say midlife, but someone who had an established career and a family. And then you just came to, again, a full stop said, I want to try this medical coding out. And here you are, 11 years later, seven certifications, and who knows where it will lead to now. It's the best decision I ever made. Wow. I love my career. Do you have any advice for someone who may be thinking about this path? If they're thinking about it and they're not quite sure, they could probably reach out to the chapter members, you know, in their area, and like network with other coders and ask them, what's the ins and outs of your job? Is this something that I really want to do? What's going to help me in my career? Okay, yeah, I get a feel from it from working professionals who do it and can guide you through it. I know when you seek to understand it on your own, it could be a little bit daunting. Right. But having speaking to someone in your area would, yeah, that's a great piece of advice just to make that connection. And you can find your local chapter on the AAPC website. Just go to AAPC.com and look for your local chapter. You can search that there. All right, well I'm just looking to see if we missed anything here. Did I miss any key points in your career, Cheryl, that we should review? I'm not seeing anything. Yeah, I think we got it. So well, Cheryl

Cheryl, thank you so much. And I appreciate you taking the time for sharing your story with the AAPC members and future members and you have a great day.

Hello and welcome to another I am AAPC interview. I am Heather Johnson. I'm here with Heather Utsinger. Did I say it right? Yes. Fellow Heather, how are you on this Monday? I'm pretty good. How about you? I'm good, thanks for asking. I mean, it's a Monday, so I'm like, fine. Yeah. Um, can you, can we start, just tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure. Um, well, my name is Heather. I currently reside in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I've actually lived in Oklahoma my entire 41 years of existence except for five years. I lived in Los Angeles from 2017 until roughly 2021. I moved back to Oklahoma. I moved to Los Angeles to get some different kind of experience in the medical coding field with the hospitals there. So in Oklahoma City, it's me and my dogs. I have two. I have a chihuahua named Pazuzu, who is five. And I have a deaf Dalmatian named Swayze, and he'll be three on Thursday. So he's pretty exciting. Thank you. And other than that, I just, I stay busy working and relaxing. I'm a very low maintenance introvert. Okay, well, I appreciate you stepping out of that to talk to us. Your dog sound amazing. I have always wanted a deaf dog. I recognize that there are challenges that come with it, but I just feel like so rewarding. And so. Yeah, it's almost like they're not trainable, but they really are. They do know that you can teach them sign language. So, yeah, that's awesome. That's really cool. Okay, you're calling us. Are you can you tell me about your current role? Are you working from home? Are you in office? What are you currently doing? Sure

yeah. I mainly work at home, but with some of our clients, they do want us to come on site to provide education, things of that nature. So in those instances, we do travel on site. I go out to a lot of like the seminars and conventions and things like that. So, but as far as working goes, my daily work is usually done from home. So. Okay. And then for those who don't know, can you give us the title, your title, your current role, responsibilities, and if you're comfortable, the organization you're working with? Sure, I'm an associate hospital outpatient consultant. So, I do outpatient assessments for facilities throughout the United States. They hire our company to audit their documentation and charges and billing and coding. And then once we do our assessment, we provide feedback to that facility and the staff and the physicians, and we educate them on our findings, whether they've done something correctly or done something incorrectly. We educate them on the guidelines, policies, procedures. And that's pretty much what I do. I do wound care surgery, pain management, ambulatory surgical centers, provider-based departments. I do pretty much all outpatient services. So, and I work for administrative consultant service LLC, which is located in Shawnee, Oklahoma, and they've been around for over 35 years, so. Cool. That was such a great like synopsis of what you do and you sound very talented and well versed in all things. I try. I try to be an expert at everything I do. I love it. Well, I'm sure you

I'm sure you are. Can you tell me how you got into the healthcare industry? Sure. For a very long time I worked as a workforce management analyst at a call center. One day I went to work and I was told that the company was moving to Oregon and we were all being laid off. So, very unexpected. I had just bought a house a month before. And I wasn't so stressful. Yes. And I wasn't able to relocate to Oregon because I had just bought my house. So I ended up being laid off and I took a severance package. So in my time of being laid off, I just, I was looking for something that I knew like a layoff would probably never happen again in an industry, such as the medical field. It's an ever-growing industry. There's so many things to do in the medical field that aren't patient care. And that was my thing. Being an introvert, I didn't want direct patient care. I wanted something that was more on the back end. And so during my layoff time, in my severance package, while I was getting unemployment, I went to the local vocational technical school and I took a coding and billing class. It was a year-long class, but I finished it in six months because I was an adult and I needed a job. And immediately within a two days of getting out of that, I was actually a receptionist at a doctor's office. That was my first foot in the door. And at that doctor's office

the coder who was also the office manager slash biller ended up leaving about a month after I started and then I slid right into that role. And then from there I just I went up from the physician setting at the doctor's office. I went to a facility and then I went to a gigantic facility in Los Angeles and then now I'm doing consulting work. So, wow. That's all pretty much in a matter of, I believe that happened in 2012. So it's been almost 12 years. Then I went from being a receptionist to where I am now, which if you want my opinion, I'm one of the top experts in my field. Congratulations. Thank you. Honestly, impressive. Like, good for you. I think so. I don't try to like, you know, I don't have an ego or anything. I have a lot of knowledge. I'm a sponge, I absorb things, and I like to share what I know with people, because sometimes it can be very overwhelming. This career can be extremely overwhelming with everything that you have to know. So, in any way that I can help somebody succeed in this career, that's what I try to do because it's a passion to me. I absolutely love what I do. This was a life-changing decision for me. So. Wow. I'm, layoffs are so hard and that I imagine was so stressful having just bought your house but I'm glad that it's for being like a catalyst for change for a career that you're like so passionate about and good at. Yeah and I'm 41 now so know, that was 11 years ago. So I was, you know, 30 and it's just you think you have, by the time people are 30

they already have their life figured out their career and it's never too late. I mean, most of the people that I work with at the company I work with now have been in the industry for over 40, 50 years. And it's just so much talent, you know, and it's, I can't even tell you how honored I am that they chose me to be a part of their team. So. That's so cool. Okay, can you tell us about what credentials you hold? Sure, I have two with a HEMA, so I have the CCS and the CCSP, and then I currently have three with AAPC. I have the CIC, the CRC, and the CASC. And I'm currently studying for the CGIC, the CRC, and the C-A-S-C. And I'm currently studying for the C-A-N-P-C. So. So your hands are full. You're going to, you're collecting all the credentials. I love it. I don't, I don't want to be a credential collector, but I do feel, and this is from experience from not having credentials to having the credentials, you're more sought after for certain things. Like when I got the C.G. I see, which I'm very passionate about GI. When I got the C.G. I see, I had gastroentrologists calling me to ask me questions because they look at that as you are truly an expert in that field. And you know, a physician provides patient care. A physician doesn't necessarily know what all the rules and guidelines and regulations are. So that's where we come into play. And it's just, it's just, there's no feeling like it when you have somebody like a physician that respects you to contact you to ask you questions because they know they're going to get the right answers. So yeah

that's awesome. Yeah, that's congratulations. That's very cool. Yeah. Okay, so you're setting for an exam right now. I want to talk a little bit about certification exams. You mentioned in FEMA. We'll talks A.P. AAPC specifically, however if you have like a HEMA things to say, feel free. Oh yeah. I just am not as familiar with their organization. When you're studying for an AAPC exam because I think that some people watching this maybe are studying for their first exam and maybe they're a little intimidated by it. They don't know what resources will be helpful. Like I'm curious, you are three certifications in for your exam. Like did you use the study guides, the practice exams, did you meet with the local chapter? Did those things help you? Not, like, what tips do you have for people who are examining the first time? For my three AAPC credentials, I did do the online course, the study course, which was, you know, came with the study guide plus the online, you know, lectures and things of that nature. I did use those for all three and the current one that I'm studying for. I do feel like it set you up very well for taking the exam. However, I don't think it is a replacement for actual real-world experience. For example, like with the one that I'm studying for now, it's for the certified anesthesiologist and pain management coder. And if you don't know anything about that, right, this, you kind of have to have a knowledge about it going into it. Otherwise, you're just, it's over your head

like you're not going to know anything that's even in the study guide or on the course because it's not to tea it's not teaching you about that. It's really just like gauging your level of expertise is what it is. That's why I think it is important to have on the job experience or real world experience before you get a credential. I can say that I've had experience and everything I've studied for and taken. And I do feel that the training courses and the study guides do prepare you for at least the exam and what to expect question-wise and like because the study guide contains all the information with the questions that you're going to ask on the exam. It's not word for word but if you if you can get familiar with what's in that guide you're going to be familiar with what's on the test. And with taking the courses online and then the study guide, with the three certifications I've taken with the AAPC and the two with the HEMA, but all of them, I have passed on the first try. I haven't had to take a retry on any of them, so. That's awesome. Yeah. I think, yeah, you bring up a great point and that is, there is nothing akin to as much as we try and we do try to replicate some real world experience, there's nothing quite like. And that's not even like coding specific or even like the health care industry specific. There's nothing quite like getting your, you know, dipping your toes in the real world to kind of have a better understanding. So that makes perfect. And I think that

like a thing that a lot of people that aren't on the back end of it that I see because I audit all over the country. And insurance differs from state to state. So it's really hard to make an exam for, like, if I'm not sure what, you know, policies or guidelines that AAPC writes their exams with, but if you're using the California guidelines, those are different than the Oklahoma guidelines, those are different than the Connecticut guidelines, you know, so it's, that's where like I could get confused on an exam is like, okay, well, you know, especially on the study exam because the practice exam, I'll answer a And to me, it's the correct answer, but it's telling me it's not. And so I look at the rationale, and it's like, well, that's different from where you guys are writing the test at. And I do think it would be beneficial if the tests were all based on Medicare guidelines, because those are pretty standard. Instead of questions being commercial payers, I think it would be more beneficial if you just did it across the board standard and did it all Medicare. So yeah, that's I think that's actually great feedback. Thank you. That's good to know. I had another thought and it left me. Okay, we talked about this advice for future examinies. Someone's someone's getting ready to take their exam for the first time. What would you tell them? It's not the end of the world if you don't make it. Some of the smartest people I know didn't make it the first time

but you just can't be discouraged. You know what you know. Just because you don't pass doesn't mean you're uneducated or that you don't know. It's just some people don't test well. Some people, it's very stressful. It's a very stressful environment. And especially if you have a lot writing on it, like, if some companies give you a raise if you get a credential and like that could be life changing for you and so it's just an added stress. So all I can say is that just relax. It's it's not the end of the world. There's always tomorrow if you don't make it and just believe in yourself. Second guessing will kill everybody. Yeah. Go with your gut. Go with your gut. If you think it's a it's a all the way all day long. There is like some research and I can't remember what it is, but it's just like 90% of the time if you're taking a test and you have like an initial idea, that's like that's the answer. It's when you start to like second guess yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And it's and also like this is what I tell my people that I know in my personal life about taking these exams is the process of elimination will save you a lot of times. You know because you can if you have four answers and you have CPT codes and you know you're in the GI question, you know it's not going to be a CP code that starts with a nine or seven. So eliminate those immediately and just focus on what's in that chapter, what's chapter specific, you know

you know, and that's just another thing about being well versed in the guidelines and the CPT book and the ICD 10 book. If you don't know how to navigate through those books, it's going to take you a lot of time to where you might run out of time to do the exam. So become familiar with the books. Yes. And definitely utilize process of elimination. Yes and study because if you don't if you're not a hundred percent certain about something then the study guide will guide you to where you need to be. It really does. I have like four of them so and I have the specialty books and everything and I mean they come in handy I mean I use them in my everyday life so. Good I love that. We I know I gave you an initial run-through of the questions we were going to talk about in the beginning and I did not mention this, so if I'm catching off guard, I apologize. Outside of exam resources that AAPC provides, are there other AAPC products that you like practice code, for example, that you use, you have feedback on those? Yeah, I do use, we do use codify at my organization. And it's a plethora of information. I mean, it's overwhelming at times, but it's extremely easy to use once you get it. And once you, you know, get the rhythm down, I use it almost every day. So it's just, it's just somewhere that it's

think of it as like a file cabinet that all your important files are in so you don't you don't have to go to 16 different filing cabinets you just go to that one filing cabinet. Yeah you're you're pro codify it sounds like is everyone in your org or all the coders do they all use it is it like a yeah? Yeah, well, we're just, we just have consultants, so we don't have any, well, I do coding for one of our clients, but for the most part, I do consulting and all of us have access to it, I believe, yes. And we do outpatient and inpatient and professional fees, so we have three different scopes. So got it. Do you use practical? I recognize that's different. Did you ever use practice code? I didn't use practicode. I'm familiar with it. We use true code for our coding software. And then I also have the medical reference engine through Optum. I mean I have so many different resources. Yeah. You need it. You really do because if you're the expert in the field then you better have an answer for everything. That makes perfect sense. Okay that's kind of the end of my questions. Is there anything else you want the AAPC community to know? I think that, you know, with the AAPC community, obviously most people aren't going to already be in the profession, but it's life changing. The possibilities are endless. I mean, you can go so far in this career. You know, I started as a receptionist

and now I'm a consultant for a leading consultant company and it's in you know a funny story is when I was a coder at the first hospital that I worked at the consultant company that I worked for did our audits and that's how they knew who I was and that's how they knew who I was. And that my auditor, her name was Lori, I would tell her every time I saw her that one day I'm going to have your job. This is the job that I want. This is what I want to do with my expertise and knowledge. And I left that job to go to California. And while I was in California, three years later, Lori found me on Facebook and asked me if I wanted a job. And I took her job because she was leaving. She was leaving. Wow, I love that you. So three days later, you leave an impact because, and she kind of described it to me that it was, because I was one that was always asking questions. Like if you're giving me feedback and or criticism I want to know well why why why do you think is that way I think it's this way so there was always a really healthy banter back and forth between the two of us and that showed her that like I wanted to learn I I wanted to know why. I didn't want you to show me, to show it to me. I wanted you to show me why and how. And so that left an impression on the whole company. And they sought me in California. And I actually started working for them contract while I still lived in Los Angeles. And then when I moved back to Oklahoma, I went on full-time. That is a very cool story. Yeah, I think it's cool because it just shows you that, you know

you know, just show initiative. Like, if you're getting audited or a consultant is coming to review your work, they're not coming to get you to lose your job. They're not. We're coming to make sure that everything is copacetic. There's no fraud being committed, that no money needs to be paid back. No money is owed. We're trying to help your organization. We're not trying to get anybody fired. And we have all this knowledge and these references that we can use to provide this information to you because there's been several times where I've, you know, assessed the facility and their coders don't even know what coding clinic is or a CPT assistant and they're not given those resources and when we come in and we find that out, we obviously recommend you need to be providing this to your coding staff, otherwise they're not able to do their job to the best ability. So, you know, we're, like, we're all of us started as coders, like, you know, maybe 40 years ago. But we've all been coders and that's where like our passion came from. So we're not out to get anybody. We're just out to make a better, a better environment to where, you know, we do assessments and consulting and audits and then eventually we don't have to anymore because you're doing great. Wow, that was, that's a cool story. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, no problem. Okay, well, I don't want to take up too much more of your day. Your dogs, remind me of their names. Sazie is my Dalmatian, like Patrick Swayze's. And my Chihuahua's name is Pazuzu. Which is the

she's a Chihuahua. So Pazuzu is the demon's name and the exorcist. Is she appropriately named? Yes, absolutely. Nice. Well, it sounds like you've got your hands full. Give them all the kisses and treats. Definitely. They deserve it. Yes, always. Thank you so much for taking the time, Heather. I'm going to let you go. All right, thank you. Bye. Bye.

Welcome to another episode of I am AAPC. I am Alex McKinley or AAPC Alex as many of you may know from AAPC social media channels and I work at the AAPC National Office. Today I have Lisa Newen with me. Lisa, how are you? I'm good. How are you, Alex? I'm great, thank you. So I put out a call for members to share their stories and here you are, you responded to that call, so thank you for doing that. Thank you for the opportunity. Absolutely, and we're excited to hear your story. So Lisa, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? So I actually got into the health industry back in 99 right after high school. So I actually was able to start with the UC system. And I actually started as a medical record assistant and then moved my way up, did front office. That was a few years. And then as I was doing front office, I actually got the opportunity to do charge capture where I touched billing. I did the review of CPT codes, I see nine at the time, all on paper, you know, looking through documentation via paper and then putting that in within the system. Okay, so you said you said you see system is that I'm guessing University of California. That's correct. Yes, so I'm from testing California. Okay

all right. And were you did you you did not have any ambitions right away to be a coder. It wasn't like you went into health care saying I want to be a medical code. Correct. Correct. I actually got the passion as I was working through the health care system. Okay. All right. So you were a transcriptionist for a while. Continue with your story. Yes. And then I actually enjoyed the charge capture piece. I then went into revenue integrity at the time we were called revenue audit. And I did charge capture for a few years, both inpatient, outpatient, ED, and then touched CPT codes then, and then got the opportunity to be a supervisor. And during that time, I liked coding. So I decided to, I heard about AAPC, took my, did the three-day boot camp camp that was offered and got my CPC back in 2011. So you had all of this great experience before you picked the coding path. Yes. Yes. Did that make it easier for you to dive into coding? And when you took three-day boot camp, was it easier? You had comprehension of the system a little bit? Yes, I was able to link it to things that I knew. So that was nice. Because coding is, it's beast of its own. And it's not for everyone, but it's the exam itself is tough. I'm not a good test taker. I can say that and admit to it. But as far as taking that CP exam, the CPC exam, I actually wouldn't do that again. So I will continue my CEUs to get that keep going and it's been almost 10 years. Oh wow, well, so you've been an APC member for 10 years? Yes. Okay, awesome. Well, let's let's step back a little bit

even before your coder, before as you were just getting into health care, what drew you to health care? What drew me to health care? I, accident, it was a, really it was more of stability at the time. I was a young mom, so I definitely needed insurance for my child, making sure I'm stable, and health care is definitely stability when it comes to insurance and just things like that. Yes, okay, all right. And tell us about your experience with the exam. So many of our students prepare by taking medical terminology and anatomy, all of these things. But you just took this, you just jumped right in, took a three-day boot camp. And it was enough because you passed, and here you are.. But did all of that health care experience you have previously give you the anatomy and some of these other foundations to help you prepare. So I actually did have some anatomy courses in high school and then I had the opportunity to just have the experience of the coding and the descriptions that is entailed within coding. Like I said, I'm not a good test taker, but as far as the experience goes, it actually helped me with my exam. I was very specializing in ambulatory, so I was good with the coding within multi-specialties. But when it came to ancillary services and radiology and labs, that's where I know I could have used more work there. Okay, all right. Now I hear, I've heard many people say I'm not a good test taker, which makes our exam especially challenging. What in your mind makes the APC

CPC exam so challenging? I think it's the volume of questions we have. There's like 150 and it's the time you have, so five hours and 40 minutes. It's just remembering and thinking about that during the test taking. And then you have to, you're looking through the book. And so as you're reviewing the book for the proper coding, it takes a bit of time. It's one, time management. Two, just ensuring that, you know, if you have your first guess, go with it. Don't second or third guess yourself, because a lot of times your first one was right. And so I think with me, I overthink things. And so sometimes my second or third answer gets changed. so it may it got wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you stuck you stuck with it. You passed the exam and what what advice would you give to AAPC future examinees in preparing for the exam. I would say definitely give yourself the time to read through everything and then making sure you focus on the areas that you feel you need a little bit more help with because most of the time what you're familiar with is going to be what you're going to be good at. So you want to focus on the areas that you may need a little bit more help with. I also would suggest to time yourself. Time management is huge. I know a lot of people I hear have didn't that that five hours and 40 minutes wasn't enough. And so just timing yourself and making sure you're within that window. Yes, yes

yes, and we have practice exams to give our students that opportunity. So I highly encourage those students to this go for with those practice exams to give you an idea of where you scanned with everything. Yes. And that might be helpful. All right. So Lisa, I am so enamored with your background and how much experience you had before coding. Because, you know, there's so many individuals who are just trying to break down that door to get into a health care position, but you had that opportunity. What's, tell me a little bit more about what you do now. So I actually work in compliance. I found my passion within compliance. I'm an auditor trainer. And what we do is we look at current coding and validate that documentation supports the guidance and what was built out. And so we work closely with Noridian, because that's our MAC, just to ensure that everything's proper. Any guidance changes, we understand it properly because not all guidance is black and white within this world. Okay, okay. Now, there may be students who are watching this who don't see how compliance fits into that. What happens when your facility is not compliant, Lisa? So we actually can get fined, and we actually can get audited as well. So auditing processing through our MAC

so our Medicare contractors. Okay. We actually can get fine like I shared. It's a lot of money. And then we can also lose licensing so just ensuring everything's compliant is the way to go. Okay okay so you are making sure everybody's doing what they should be doing following the rules making sure everything's clean and and operating as it should right and training others to do that as much as we can and then finding more opportunities. Wow, well. And how did you find your niche in compliance? Because there's so many different paths that you can take. And we see that. And as I've been interviewing our members, I'm seeing, you know, many start out as quarters, but they become auditors or risk adjustment or there's so many different paths and here you are at compliance. What was that evolution for you like, Lisa? So for me, like I started with not knowing what I'm gonna, I, what my passion was within the health care industry. I had, I looked for it everywhere. I went from front office, that wasn't my cup of tea, medical records as I shared. I did charge capture, I wasn't, data entry wasn't my thing. So then I realized from all of that, becoming a supervisor and just looking at everything at a glance and what I've touched, I feel compliance from my perspective was my passion. I wanted everything done properly. I like to educate and train and coding CPC actually helped me get this role in what I do now because we have to code. We look at documentation, we make sure proper coding is happening. And so that's

I would say that you just have to find your niche and you have to look for it. It's not just going to come. Yeah, yeah. I guess when you work in a facility like yours, you get to see different aspects and become friends with people in these different departments doing different things. So that's probably helpful. Lisa, do you have ambitions? Or I don't know. Well, let me ask you this first. What other certifications do you have, if any? So I do. Actually, I got the CPMA in 2018. And then I also got the CPCO in 2019. And not with APC. I also have my CHCBS, which is for FQHC and rural health. Okay and did you get those certifications looking for new opportunities or did new the new opportunities come and you thought these certifications can help me in this role. So for compliance when I when I've done compliance for about four years now and I actually felt I for opportunity purposes I got the CPCO so that's your compliance officer, and then your CPMA for medical auditing. So I felt it was going to be a good opportunity for me to get that now, and then being able to expand my horizons with my journey. Okay, now I know for many coders, they can't help but to speak and think maybe I want to try this one down the road. Do you have that itch at all Lisa? I do. I really want to do the COC. I actually had the opportunity to do the free APC. Promotion last summer. Yes. yes. Awesome. But I didn't have, I didn't have, I have yet to take the exam. So, all right. All right. All right. It's waiting for you. And you love those exams. I sure do. Lisa

had you ever spent time after receiving your CPC doing production coding or, you know, just what you would think is a entry level coding type of position? So I personally haven't been a coder myself. I actually use these certifications for growing in what I do. So as a supervisor, I had to educate back office staff, sometimes providers. And so I wanted to get my own knowledge of the coding world because I wanted to make sure we were doing things properly. And so I also reached out to our coding team. Those were my experts at the time. I said, well, this is how I would code it. What do you think? And so I did take the opportunity to use what I knew to enhance what I did. Okay, okay. And as a supervisor, do you have a hand in hiring coders? I didn't as coders, but I did as charged capture or data entry level at the time. Okay. And for those, you know, you after you pass the that hurdle of the exam, some individuals have that hurdle of getting into health care and finding that first job. What would you say to someone who is trying to break in and find that first position? I would say whatever you can get your hands on or your step in to the health care industry, do it. Whether it be a, you know, the stepping stone of a medical records assistance like I was, it would give you the opportunity to network, be that person that networks

use that opportunity when you get that step in. And then you'll find your passion and that's what I had the opportunity to do. Awesome. And now you live your passion and and do like individuals in this industry just soak up information are always seeking to learn and improve. Are you that right? Yes, I am. And I'm always, you know, since the pandemic, we've learned so much and we continue to learn every day because things are changing and evolving. Okay, how has the pandemic affected you in your facility? We actually had, so I currently work in a different facility. So went from one UC to another. And we've had a lot of changes we had to change up our structurally because we had, we had to make more room for COVID patients. And so we also had to learn additional guidance because things were changing there. It was, you know, everything was happening so quickly. So we had to put in quick tip sheets together for our physicians, our back office staff to do everything properly and continuing to listen to different guidance and phone calls just to ensure we understand everything properly to be able to educate out. You're listening to CMS often like all the time right just looking for what has changed what's been updated and you're I said it sounds like a big part of your role is to communicate all of these changes as they come and sometimes they come fast and furious and sometimes they sneak in right? Yes, yes. And sometimes you hear it from you know the providers

oh I heard this from my association and so how does this impact me? So a lot of times we just got to learn ourselves. Every day we're learning. So it's a great thing. All right. All right. Now, just talking about networking, you talked about networking for those seeking future employment. And I wonder if have you been active or have you been involved with your AAPC local chapter in any way. I personally have not. I know I see their emails, but I've been more involved with just the AAPC webinars that I have that you guys have offer and so just learning myself but I haven't had the opportunity to go to chapter meetings and stuff like that. Well Lisa you know that what's your chapter where's that where are they? Orange chapter or chapter the president of the orange chapter and those officers are watching this and they're gonna call you and they're gonna nominate you to be the vice president. So look out. I'll wait for the call. Yeah. Oh man. Well, Lisa, what, what as we conclude, would you share with those seeking or maybe even just considering a career in health care in the business side of health care? Try it. It doesn't hurt. What's the harm? You don't like it and then you move on. But you'll never know unless you try it. Yeah, awesome. Well, that's great. Great. What a great story of, I mean, you have had some amazing opportunities. And I think a lot of individuals, they dream of that, of just falling. I mean, I know you've worked hard and, but you didn't, when you stepped into health care

you didn't know what path it was going to lead to. And her, you are 10 years later. Yes. Yeah. Actually, it's been so in all honesty, it's been about 15 years with with everything. Okay. 20, almost 22 years with the health care industry. Wow. So you started when you're 12. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I did. Beautiful. All right. Well, Lisa, thank you so much for sharing your story with us and the AAPC members and future AAPC members. I'd like to conclude by having having my guest just say in their own special way, I am AAPC. So would you do that, Lisa? I am AAPC. Beautiful. Thank you so much. And Lisa, thanks for your time. You have a great day and we will talk to you soon. Thank you.